Café de Nuit

The title says it all. I don't get it. Was Bakholis a Barovian? Doesn't sound like it. Did he just happen to come from the same world? There's no record of that. Moreover, the name "Invidia" is Spanish (envy), and the few other Invidian words we've seen (Il Duce?) are Spanish/Romance derived.

IMC I made Invidia a Spanish-eque domain, and I recommend it as an alternative to Ricoba (I like my Richemulot the way it is).

I always figured it was because Indivia was one of the 'vias'. Barovia, Markovia, Indivia, ect. The italio-romantic influence was partially from Kartakass and partially from how Borca evolved from Eastern Europe into Northern Italy.(Not as big of a jump as one might originally think.)

Personally I'd keep the Balok if only because Ravenloft has a ton of languages already, but I agree, I always saw Indivia as being a bit more south or southwestern European.

DocBeard wrote:I always figured it was because Indivia was one of the 'vias'. Barovia, Markovia, Indivia, ect. The italio-romantic influence was partially from Kartakass and partially from how Borca evolved from Eastern Europe into Northern Italy.(Not as big of a jump as one might originally think.)

That would be an excellent point, if it had actually been named "Indivia." As the name stands, it doesn't really fit. Matter of fact, changing the name to Indivia would make a lot of sense if you keep the Balok!

Personally I'd keep the Balok if only because Ravenloft has a ton of languages already, but I agree, I always saw Indivia as being a bit more south or southwestern European.

True, but they have three languages as of GazIV. Adding a fourth or replacing one of those three isn't going to cause a lot of trouble.

Balok appears based more on on Romanian than anything else. Sure, some words don't fit that pattern, but they could be loan-words. Romanian is a Romance langauge, like French, Italian, Spanish, etc.

My Invidians are much more Italianate than my Borcans. They speak their own language, and Balok or Mordentish are common second tongues.

So:

High Mordentish: French

Balok:Romanian with Slavic influences/loan words

Borjian dialect of Balok: more loan-words, foreign influences, accent is less guttural and harsh than the Barovian speech

Invidian: Italian dialect, with some Balok and Mordentish influences

Darkonese: Vulgar Latin

I think Old Kartakan might be Serbian/Croatian- the words sound familiar. Not sure...

ewancummins wrote:I think Old Kartakan might be Serbian/Croatian- the words sound familiar. Not sure...

I did research on this exact question for Mistipedia: http://fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Old_Kartakan

Nerit wrote:

ewancummins wrote:I think Old Kartakan might be Serbian/Croatian- the words sound familiar. Not sure...

I did research on this exact question for Mistipedia: http://fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Old_Kartakan

Slovenian, eh? Well, still South Slavs, right?

ewancummins wrote:Balok appears based more on on Romanian than anything else. Sure, some words don't fit that pattern, but they could be loan-words. Romanian is a Romance langauge, like French, Italian, Spanish, etc.

FWIW, "envy" in Romanian is "invidie", which looks awfully familiar.

Nathan of the FoS wrote:

ewancummins wrote:Balok appears based more on on Romanian than anything else. Sure, some words don't fit that pattern, but they could be loan-words. Romanian is a Romance langauge, like French, Italian, Spanish, etc.

FWIW, "envy" in Romanian is "invidie", which looks awfully familiar.

That makes sense. Latin roots!

Okay, but this still doesn't explain why the Invidians speak Balok, with no connection between Barovia and Bakholis. Is there such a connection and I just missed it?

So the Invidians could talk to their neighbors?...

I realize this does not address the Bakholis-Barovia connection. Under the circumstances I think it makes more sense to assume that there is a connection and elaborate it than to grace the domain with a new language.

Its the only language the Invidians hold in enough contempt to use without it turning into a fistfight over the merits of one over the other.

We know so little about Bakholis, it's entirely possible he did come from Barovia. Gaz IV's account of the "Traitor King" could be false history, laid out to sully his reputation as a ruler from the domain's outset.

Nathan of the FoS wrote:

ewancummins wrote:Balok appears based more on on Romanian than anything else. Sure, some words don't fit that pattern, but they could be loan-words. Romanian is a Romance langauge, like French, Italian, Spanish, etc.

FWIW, "envy" in Romanian is "invidie", which looks awfully familiar.

In Spanish it's "Invidia," which is even more familiar.

I'm just saying....

Okay, I gotta say I'm caving in. I've built my own view of Invidia for years, since before I even knew there was a former DL, but I'm going to blend my vision of Invidia with canon a little more: I'm going to say that Balok (Romanian-esque) has different forms and dialects similar to upper and lower Mordentish. In Invidia, Balok sounds like Spanish, but is actually Balok.

Now, to get better history for Bakholis that says he was from a Barovian backwater....