Café de Nuit

Hi, everyone,

Long time no post (but fairly-frequent lurking). Hope everyone's doing well.

Recently, I was given the opportunity to play in a semi-regular 3.5e game set in Ravenloft. Wanting to make the most of this opportunity (as rare as it is), I wanted to do something I haven't done before, so I came up with an idea for a dwarf Fighter/Psion who has psychometabolism as his primary discipline.

We've played through a couple of sessions, and I've realized that I'm not making optimum use of his metamorphosis power, and I was hoping you enlightened folks could offer some suggestions on good forms to utilize.

Understand that I'm not looking to power-game -- at least, not exactly. No dragons or other stuff that's completely inappropriate to Ravenloft. I'm looking for ideas for useful forms (observing all the 3.5e rules) that he -- as a native of the demiplane -- might have actually heard of or seen and that are useful in certain situations. So far, the only thing I've come up with is a dread troll (from Denizens of Dread), for the Strength and Dex boosts, and maybe a dire weasel (for the 2d4 Con drain per round -- deadlier than straight hit point damage in the right situations).

He has the Metamorphic Transfer feat, and I'm actually thinking of taking the same feat again when he's eligible, so he can access certain supernatural abilities of the forms he assumes.

Stats are Str 13, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 6 (needless to say, he's not going to be a great spy even with the ability to assume other forms unless he never actually has to speak. He's currently a Ftr 2/Psion (Egoist) 9, so (as I understand the rules), he's working with a 9HD cap for assumed forms -- should be plenty of opportunities for fun.

Any comments (and questions if necessary) are welcome and appreciated. I've already checked out the Character Optimization forums on Wizards but they don't really have what I need.

I really need to get me a psionics book and look at that class!

Metamorphosis is essentially polymorph self for psionicists if anyone doesn't know (for some rules I made on psionics in Ravenloft, based on previous editions and the scant canon rules in the RDMG, head here, just remember to head here to comment; bear with me, it's still a WIP and I've little time to update it lately, what with 60 hours per while getting ready to move). Appropriate monsters for Ravenloft would include mind flayers, but use animal affinity to boost that Cha score first or the Mind Blast will be too easy to resist. Red widows (if you're playing a female character, or at least willing to do so temporarily) make for interesting play and they have a massive Cha bonus that would make your PC a decent spy, and the ability to change into a massive spider has its uses. As does their venom.

tarlyn wrote:I really need to get me a psionics book and look at that class!

Or you could simply check out the psionics section in the SRD: http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm

Regarding the mind flayer... playing Rules As Written, would I get the mind blast since it's a spell-like ability? Rules for the metamorphosis power (and you're right, it's basically a psionic version of the polymorph spell) indicate that you do not get the "extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form (such as blindsense, fast healing, regeneration, and scent) or any supernatural, psionic, or spell-like abilities." This is why when my dwarf assumes the form of a dread troll he gains the size, natural attacks (including rending), and physical ability scores (and presumably the bonus racial feats of Alertness, Iron Will, and Power Attack) but not the troll's regeneration.

This thought occurs to me -- do any of you interpret the Metamorphic Transfer feat to allow you to get a single otherwise-prohibited ability (special quality, spell-like ability) of the assumed form, rather than limiting it to just a supernatural ability? For example, could I assume the form of a mind flayer and choose to gain the mind blast spell-like ability or the form of the dread troll and gain the regeneration 5 special quality?

This would certainly open things up a bit, but it might not be too uber-powerful since the feat seems to limit you to a certain number of uses of the ability per manifestation...

Hags and trolls tend to be good poly choices.

AdamGarou wrote:This thought occurs to me -- do any of you interpret the Metamorphic Transfer feat to allow you to get a single otherwise-prohibited ability (special quality, spell-like ability) of the assumed form, rather than limiting it to just a supernatural ability? For example, could I assume the form of a mind flayer and choose to gain the mind blast spell-like ability or the form of the dread troll and gain the regeneration 5 special quality?

No. The feat clearly states you gain a supernatural ability, not a spell-like or anything else.

AdamGarou wrote:This would certainly open things up a bit, but it might not be too uber-powerful since the feat seems to limit you to a certain number of uses of the ability per manifestation...

It would be, considering that some creatures have wish as a spell-like ability...

Mind Blast is a "psionic" power; basically the psionic equivalent of a supernatural power (semantics ). So by my reading it is possible to get it with Metamorphic Transfer. Or if we're going to be sticklers about this, try the Flayerspawn Psychic PrC from Complete Psionic for Mind Blast.

Creatures with wish as a spell-like ability are above 15 HD, the upper maximum for even greater metamorphosis to emulate. So I'd have to disagree, Jester. Metamorphic Transfer could never allow someone to take on the ability to use wish as a spell- (or psi-) like ability. An epic version maybe, but why bother when reality revision can do everything a wish can? It costs experience, yes, but a lot less than it would to develop and learn an epic power--if the DM even allows epic levels and/or spells and powers.

To Sorti:

True enough -- I probably should have phrased it more like "do you interpret the Metamorphic Transfer feat to do XYZ in your home games/house rules"... and if so, how has that worked out?

To Mikhal:

I can see your point as well... if I could just convince my DM that it's just semantics .

More thoughts on good forms to assume with the power? I'm not necessarily just looking for a combat form -- the dread troll form I picked up in Invidia has been pretty effective so far (although I'd certain welcome other suggestions) -- but also interested in creative "utility" forms and possible scenarios in which they'd be useful. I know there's more potential for use with this power... I'm just having trouble coming up with it on my own.

Perils of getting older, I suppose...

High Priest Mikhal wrote: Creatures with wish as a spell-like ability are above 15 HD, the upper maximum for even greater metamorphosis to emulate. So I'd have to disagree, Jester. Metamorphic Transfer could never allow someone to take on the ability to use wish as a spell- (or psi-) like ability.

Greater metamorphosis' limit is 25 HD, 15 is for metamorphosis, so you don't need an epic power.

Polymorph self and his relatives are quite controversial already as to if you lose your race extraordinary abilities (like, human losing their bonus feat); metamorphic transfer is also very complicated to balance, because supernatural abilities can be much more powerful than the 4th-level power you use, for instance if you morph into a Pixie you get Greater Invisibility which you can suppress or resume as a free action, which is clearly more powerful than the 4th level wizard spell Greater Invisibility.
If you could also get spell-like abilities you could also cast irresistible dance (8th level) once. Pixies have 1 HD.

Basically, the monster manuals are not balanced with polymorph self in mind, and the spell itself becomes more powerful the more monster manuals you buy, which doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, you can ask a Knowledge check to know a particular creature; you can rule out some of them; you can rebalance it someway disallowing spell like abilities above 3rd level, and so on. It will take time, work on the DM and PC's part, discussions, and it won't be fun.

If you want my 2€cents, Pathfinder treats this decently inserting many different spells to become different things and stating exactly which bonuses you get and which you don't: it can still be abused, but much less, and it's also nicer.

Whoops; Sorti's right. I got my HD limits wrong. Have a for spotting my error.

Polymorph effects got a massive rethink; I can't find the article in the d20 Hypertext (not that I looked too hard), but the new rules are in the PHB II and the Rules Compendium. It's so complicated I haven't really learned it, since I'm not running (or plan to run) any D&D games for the foreseeable future.