Café de Nuit

This thread will compile and refine reputation rules from various sources. First off, Dragon #194's system for "reputation combat"

Step 1: Calculate Base Reputation for each character
Base Rep = Level + Cha bonus + Bluff ranks + Diplomacy ranks + Intimidate ranks

Step 2: Calculate Local Reputation
minor but respected position (duke, renowned poet, wealthy merchant): Base Rep x2
vital position (king, general, pontiff): Base Rep x4

Step 3: Arm Yourself
Attacks to reputation is done using Perform (wit), or a straight Cha check if untrained.
Base DC for the attack is the target's Cha score, modified by recent failures, current rep as % of whole, and other modifiers (pretty much DM's call).

Step 4: Get Bloody
Damage per attack is 1d6 + Cha
Current rep is
below 75%: -2 to Cha-related checks
below 50%: -5 to Cha-related checks
below 25%: -10 to Cha-related checks
below 0%: -15 and you are a social outcast; if you are in a position of power, expect to be removed by the most expedient means.

Step 5: Lick Your Wounds
If you go for a month without reputation damage, you return to full.
Acts of generosity, heroism, etc. that are in keeping with your position may restore 1d6+Cha reputation.
With a successful Cha check DC 10, a leader may take credit for the actions of underlings, who may attempt an opposed Diplomacy check to refute.

And now the feats:

Bully [Wit]
People are afraid to say bad things about you.
Prerequisite: Intimidate skill
Benefit: Calculate base rep using triple your Intimidate ranks, if higher than Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate.
Normal: When calculating your base reputation, you add your Charisma bonus and your ranks in Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate.

Cunning Wit [Wit]
You have mastered the art of witty repartee.
Prereq: Perform (wit)
Benefit: +4 to Perform (wit) to damage reputation

Diplomat [Wit]
People don't like to think poorly of you.
Prerequisite: Diplomacy skill
Benefit: Calculate base rep using triple your Diplomacy ranks, if higher than Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate.
Normal: When calculating your base reputation, you add your Charisma bonus and your ranks in Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate.

Face in the Crowd [Wit]
People don't think much about you.
Benefit: Ignore a negative Cha bonus when calculating your base rep and damage.

Rapier Wit [Wit]
You are skilled at spreading your insults.
Prereq: Perform (wit), Cunning Wit
Benefit: Roll 1d10 instead of 1d6 when damaging rep.

Scathing Wit [Wit]
Your insults cause physical pain.
Prereq: Perform (wit), Cunning Wit, Rapier Wit
Benefit: If you damage someone's rep in their presence and they understand, they must make a Fort save (DC = 10 + your perform (wit) modifier). Failure means they break out in hives or boils, and take subdual damage equal to the rep damage you inflicted.

Shatter Confidence [Wit]
You find and target insecurities.
Prereq: Perform (wit), Cunning Wit
Benefit: When speaking with someone, you can select one of their skills. If you succeed at a Perform (wit) against 10 + Cha, their next use of the skill suffers a -5 morale penalty.

Sly [Wit]
People have a hard time believing anything bad about you.
Prerequisite: Bluff skill
Benefit: Calculate base rep using triple your Bluff ranks, if higher than Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate.
Normal: When calculating your base reputation, you add your Charisma bonus and your ranks in Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate.

Sterling Reputation [Wit]
You recover quickly from insults.
Benefit: You recover your rep in 3 weeks instead of a month, and roll 1d10 instead of 1d6 for impressive deeds.

Thorny Reputation [Wit]
When others mock you, their jokes can backfire on them.
Prereq: Perform (wit), Cunning Wit
Benefit: When someone fails to hurt your rep by 5 or more, they take 1d4+(your charisma) damage to their rep.

The 3.5 SRD has a variant system of reputation that deserves a look as well. Hoping to reconcile the two.

It would appear the key element here is that reputation, as defined by the Unearthed Arcana, can be double-edged at any level. This is a different kind of reputation than Dragon 194 was talking about, because with that, high was good and low was bad. It does appear to be purely a vocabulary issue: of the four definitions of "reputation" I found, it would appear D194 was talking about the first two, while UA was focusing on the last two.

So in my attempt to reconcile these two, the first thing I will have to do is work out the vocabulary. UA refers to its mechanic as a measure of fame/infamy, so I'll use that to distinguish them.

So, to explore these concepts, if a character is high in reputation but low in fame, he's well esteemed among his peers, but no one outside his circle may know he exists. If that character gains fame so as to be high in both, he's known for getting the job done, and he's got several such jobs to his credit. If his reputation is damaged but his fame remains high, the fame precedes him, but doesn't help as much. If the reputation is seriously damaged or if he goes among enemies, the fame turns to infamy.

Hmmmm...I see some interesting dynamics. One, fame determines how widely someone is known, which was definitely left vague in D194. Potential for a good fit there. Two, you don't lose fame; it may change to infamy, but it does not disappear. Hmmmmm...Carrie Fisher may disagree with that. I'll have to give it a lot more thought.

What happens with a person in the wrong circle (fame turns to infamy) but their reputation remains high? Say, a decorated Talon in Dementlieu? Well, I'd imagine he applies an infamy penalty to Bluff and Diplomacy, but Intimidate he gets a bonus. Say....that's the same as Outcast Rating. Hmmmmm....

Okay, so I'd say that Fame stacks with OR, because anything that makes you stand out can make you more famous. It's all a matter of being remarkable, in the Setch Godin sense of getting people to remark about you. Masks would help in this way, as would calling cards. Seems to me that this can be used as a kind of artificial OR that one can put on and take off in these cases.

Burning Wheel arguments.

Two people start an argument and each grab an argument sheet. Each chooses three argument tactics (obfuscate, feint, incite) and write down their basic argument for each. Each player makes their first point and role a die for each skill that supports their argument. Other players can add to the points and give them a bonus die. Do this for all three arguments and the person with the most successes wins.

That's the basics, I'd recommend you check out the full rules.

Lost Heretic wrote:Burning Wheel arguments.

That's the basics, I'd recommend you check out the full rules.

Which you can find here: http://www.burningwheel.org/wiki/images ... 95_108.pdf

An understanding of the Burning Wheel system would help, but there's their entire Duel of Wits system up for download, on their wiki, created by the designer of the game. He makes most of the general rules readily available.

And this covers the very basic core of the system: http://www.burningwheel.org/wiki/images ... _04_25.pdf

General section of Downloads on their WIKI is here, for those interested: http://www.burningwheel.org/wiki/index. ... =Downloads

DeepShadow of FoS wrote:The 3.5 SRD has a variant system of reputation that deserves a look as well. Hoping to reconcile the two.

I have the SRD and it's the first time I see this.

I managed to pick up Atlas Games' Dynasties and Demagogues a few years back:
http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG3220.php

It wasn't quite what I was looking for, but it was well written for the most part, and I'm pretty sure it's got some rules of this kind, IIRC. When I have time, I'll dig it up and summarize what I can...

Likewise, I'll try to summarize what I can of the GURPS Social Engineering supplement. This is recently released, but it specifically avoids any "social combat" dynamics, opting instead for situational and task based modifiers to skill checks and reaction rolls. It also includes a section on loyalty and finding npcs.

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:I managed to pick up Atlas Games' Dynasties and Demagogues a few years back:
http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG3220.php

It wasn't quite what I was looking for, but it was well written for the most part, and I'm pretty sure it's got some rules of this kind, IIRC. When I have time, I'll dig it up and summarize what I can...

I realize this is coming a bit late, but I finally had time to skip through that book. No overall reputation system that I see there. I think I confused it with the (overly) detailed rules for political debate and swaying the populace.

There's also the Trust rules in the first Carrion Crown adventure.