Duke Gundar

[alhoon]

I recently found out that Duke Gundar has been revived.
Duke Gundar: the psychopathic, chaotic-Drakov level cruel, rageful, gluttonous (covered in the blood of his victims), lustful (has fathered children), misogynistic (killing women for the lulz), aging older-than-Strahd vampire is back.

Since his revival, he's not trapped in a domain, and he's in a warpath to get revenge. If Gundar was cruel and erratic as ruler, think what a genuine reason for revenge would do to him. He goes around with a bunch of the worst brigands he can bully\charm and commits atrocities that he pins on the Gundarakite rebels.
He's still an incredibly powerful warrior that fights with his bare hands and is still covered in the gore of his victims. He's the same ####### he was, but now he has reason to be angry. He will stop at nothing to destroy Dominiani; not that he would ever stop from doing what he wanted anyway.

My take on it
I'm generally against that.

- Gundar serves the same purpose more or less as a marilith I use in my campaign. And unlike the fiend, Gundar is a creature that chose to be as evil.
- He was defeated. Can we ever get rid of someone? Especially someone as cruel to his people as Drakov or Gundar? It's about time the world became a better place! This is gothic horror, so the heroes have a chance to win.
- I don't like him. We have Drakov, why do we need a chaotic-Drakov variant that is now not trapped in a domain?
That doesn't mean I will never put Gundar out there, but if I do, it will be for the PCs to destroy him, not to work with him for a time to defeat Dominiani. I don't want to RP Gundar, I may use him as a menace to be destroyed. The good old fashioned "room 1, room 2, room 3, Gundar room" dungeon.

As usual, that's my opinion on the matter and I open a thread not to call for Gundar to be banned from the canon or something, but to discuss my opinion with others that have different opinions and see other points of view.

[Dion of the Fraternity]

Well, cruelty does not necessarily a darklord make; and unlike Drakov, Gundar doesn't have a large cult of personality. At this point he's a little more like Azrael Dak wandering the Balinoks.

Furthermore: if indeed a group of heroes has already defeated Gundar, then they don't have to ever meet him again. That's the next band of heroes' problem to deal with.

[alhoon]

Right, I forgot Azrael Dak. We have too many Azraels.
But Gundar is a lot more difficult to kill than Azrael.


And while cruelty and all doesn't make a Darklord, he was a darklord for his actions. And that aside, Strahd and Gabby for certain know he's out there. That none of them found anyone skilled enough to go fight Gundar says something about his prowess. Of course, for Gabrielle Gundar isn't that high on her list. And someone that can defeat Gundar poses an existential threat to Strahd too..

And now, another question. Why Gundar remains there and doesn't travel the Core to find a cure or/and Dr. Dominiani's whereabouts? Just to retake Gundarak? Securing he'll be around for ever instead of "just" a couple more centuries and taking his much needed revenge would be better.
Is there something that holds Gundar around Gundarak? Or I could freely throw him in Valachan so to speak, to start wiping out the Leopards of Kharkov and the villagers till he agreed to help him or something?

[Ryan Naylor]

He's not *in* Gundarak. I think he was revived in Darkon, and he's hunting Dominiani for revenge. That's a bigger drive than getting Gundarak back. If you want to stick him in Valachan, you are free to.

He's also not necessarily getting any older. Although you keep saying it, that's completely noncanon from the BoS series.

[alhoon]

Oh...so he may have escaped his curse?
According to the BoS, he's butchering people in Gundarak, trying to find Dominiani and pins the atrocities on the Gundarakite rebels. Valachan was just an example. He could well go to any domain. I doubt for example that Azalin would try to keep him.

I don't have the adventure where he gets back so I didn't know where he was revived. Does the adventure give any clues about whether he still ages or not? About whether he's still a brutal lunatic?

[Ryan Naylor]

He's still a brutal lunatic.

He doesn't age. Unless you take the BoS article to be accurate. Gundar aging has never been canon, and was made up in the BoS.

[alhoon]

Ehhh... what? Gundar doesn't age? Weeeeeell... that makes better sense.
I also don't know much about Dominiani... is his domain easy to find?

What I mean is, would Gundar find Dominiani within a couple of years or something?

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Hey alhoon, any other events from the past 16 years we need to catch you up on?

To your points against his revival:
- he was defeated, yes, but "off-screen" which never sat especially well for me. I wish there had been a follow-on adventure to Feast of Goblyns that fleshed out his demise more fully.
- I think he's more Drakov-like when he was a darklord. As a roving menace without his brutal hierarchy to command, he's a different animal.
- Having the PC's destroy him is a perfectly valid adventure now. Perhaps moreso than when he was a darklord.

As to your question in the other thread: why would someone do that? It wasn't deliberate. It was more like a couple of hapless schmoes saying "I don't believe that's really a vampire's skeleton. I dare you to pull out the stake!" Classic horror movie sequel setup. That's why I like it.

Yes, as Ryan said, all the info in the BoS article is non-canon, ("netbook canon" as we say on Mistipedia) so take it as you will. (Some BoS stuff showed up later in canon, but I think that was all stuff originally written by the Kargatane themselves, not other submissions, and the Gundar article is by Pierre "Gomez" van Rooden.) There's very little of the Canon Gundar. The best source on him is probably Knight of the Black Rose.

Dominiani is well know amongst the elite of the western core as someone to take troublesome "insane" relations off your hands. I can't imagine it taking too terribly long for Gundar to track him down, but if he goes in charging like a rabid bull (as he's wont to do), he might find the tables turned, as Dominiani is a darklord now, with whatever powers that entails, and has a bunch of followers under his command to protect himself with. Also, Dominiani can be active in the day now, so he just has to close the borders, wait Gundar out, and find him slumbering and re-stake him. (I'm not sure if it was ever revealed if Gundar has to rest on his own grave dirt now or not. That would be troublesome if he was revived in Darkon.) If Gundar finds/figures this out before his trip to to Dominia, he might have to change tactics a bit.

[jamesfirecat]

As to your question in the other thread: why would someone do that? It wasn't deliberate. It was more like a couple of hapless schmoes saying "I don't believe that's really a vampire's skeleton. I dare you to pull out the stake!" Classic horror movie sequel setup. That's why I like it.

Honestly it was less of a dare and more of a

"Hey Jimbob hold my stein of mead while I prove that this isn't a real vampire skeleton by pulling the stake out...."

When two people broke into his home late one night.

Now as for why they didn't bother to do the entire cut off head fill with holy wafers (everyone who has read their Van Richten should know that a stake through the heart doesn't actually kill a vampire just put it into a coma more or less) after he was staked, your guess is as good as mine.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Honestly it was less of a dare ...

Yup, I was paraphrasing from memory, but yeah...

Now as for why they didn't bother to do the entire cut off head fill with holy wafers (everyone who has read their Van Richten should know that a stake through the heart doesn't actually kill a vampire just put it into a coma more or less) after he was staked, your guess is as good as mine.

Yeah, that's the sort of thing I would've liked an adventure set after FoG to address. Why was Gundar ever allowed to just sit there staked for so long?

[alhoon]

So... everything canon on Gundar is actually on the Black Box that I don't have and an adventure that they free him that I also don't have?

From KotBR, I remember very little about Gundar himself. I remember his son, I liked that one better. More dimensional character. As far as I remember, Gundar was a more like a big, rabid monster.

About Dominiani, Isn't Dominia a kinda largish domain? I.e. if Gundar arrives there, he can sleep in the morning, torture and rip apart a few peasants in the night to learn where the asylum is (he could pretty much put together who lives in the Asylum; he's not stupid IIRC) and pay Dominiani a visit.


Personally: I think I'll pretend Gundar was destroyed and nobody was keeping a staked eminent vampire warlord around as a trophy.
"That's the stake that killed Gundar, and those are his ashes" are quite good trophy too and way safer.
Not that I would trust a stake thrust into Gundar's misogynistic heart or his ashes to be around BTW, but better than keeping Gundar.

[jamesfirecat]

I remember his son, I liked that one better. More dimensional character. As far as I remember, Gundar was a more like a big, rabid monster.

As officer Grumpy of the Buzzkill Brigade I can't help but point out that his son was killed in Knight of the Black Rose...

[Ryan Naylor]

I actually think that the look of relief of Gundar's face when Medraut was killed speaks volumes of hidden depths and interesting history.


I believe that originally the novel Death of a Darklord was supposed to go into Gundar's death in more detail, but it was changed in production until we got the pile of heaving dross we actually ended up with.

[alhoon]

As officer Grumpy of the Buzzkill Brigade I can't help but point out that his son was killed in Knight of the Black Rose...

Yeap. That's where I remember his son, the wizard from, and the portal with the fire and all.

I believe that originally the novel Death of a Darklord was supposed to go into Gundar's death in more detail, but it was changed in production until we got the pile of heaving dross we actually ended up with.

Never managed to finish it.
Anyway, I remember Gundar sending people to kill his son (and I think his daughter, not sure) but I don't remember why he didn't do it in person. His son knew of his father's feelings and hated him too. IIRC Mere-something was hiding in the dungeons.

So, what is the curse of Duke Gundar?

[Dion of the Fraternity]

To be forgotten that he was a darklord once.