Grand Conjunction--->ToUD campaign

[Bluebomber4evr]

Alternatively, you could rule that Azalin learned something from the Grand Conjunction -- some inherent weakness in the barrier that keeps the domains trapped -- when that barrier briefly fell. Based on that bit of knowledge, he could have devised a new spell or ritual based on the lore he already possessed, only to realize he did not have the power to use it as a lich.
If he evolved himself into a demilich, however, the necessary power would be his.

This. It makes sense to me that he would try to pursue demilichdom as a means to transcend the limitations of being a lich, and he hoped in the process this meant the Dark Powers could no longer have a hold on him, since they still did during the Grand Conjunction.

[Tenebris]

I want to incorporate as much of the history of Ravenloft into the narrative of the campaign as possible, but some things definitely need updating and tweaking. I think I'm going to preserve the chronology of GC and GH as is, while making some changes to the narrative in an attempt to make the story more coherent and compelling overall. I have my own ideas for ToUD but these are still in nascent stages of development.

[Mouseferatu]

Is there any compiled source on everything that was ever revealed--both in official products and in author/developer discussions--on the ToUD? I've always been insanely curious about it, but I've never been able to dig up much on what was planned.

[Tenebris]

Some fanwork has been done here, but ToUD was never really developed beyond an idea by TSR/WotC. Be that as it may, look at this as an opportunity to truly be creative within Ravenloft on a grand scale, using what little we know about it as the impetus for a compelling campaign narrative. That's how I'm approaching it, it's a work in progress but I'll post here when it's played, and should my group ever make it that far, some thoughts after playtest.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Remember that, while we've only seen two of Azalin's Break-Out-Of-Ravenloft schemes played out to fruition in the product line, he'd surely been making such attempts on a regular basis for generations before the Conjunction, let alone the ToUD. Each try will have taught him more about the world he's trapped in, spurring him to take a different approach the next time. No matter which metaplot-arc came first IYC, it's really just part of a pattern, not some unprecedented breakthrough.

[Mouseferatu]

Some fanwork has been done here, but ToUD was never really developed beyond an idea by TSR/WotC.

What have they said about that idea, though? I realize nothing was ever officially done with it, but I'd love any insights into what the original concept was.

[Tenebris]

Under the campaign ideas section in the Vault on this website there are 2 different delineations of possible ToUD campaigns. Those would be good places to start, I'm working on my own as well but it is still in the initial stages.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Some fanwork has been done here, but ToUD was never really developed beyond an idea by TSR/WotC.

What have they said about that idea, though? I realize nothing was ever officially done with it, but I'd love any insights into what the original concept was.

The only concrete things stated about it are that it will occur in the year 775 BC and Van Richten will return and be involved somehow.

Steve Miller said that Die Vecna! Die! was originally supposed to be a Ravenloft adventure detailing the ToUD as a possible end to the Ravenloft setting and it was supposed to revolve around time-travel through the Mists, but the project was changed to be a swan song for the 2nd edition and plot was changed around considerably by the time the adventure was published.

As for possibilities, well there's tons of those. I remember Mangrum once said that if you took all the dread possibilities from the Gazetteers and made them true/happen, that could be a ToUD.

You could probably say that if Azalin's plan in the Gazetteer metaplot came to pass (and if all the books were published as planned, it wouldn't have) it could be the ToUD.

Since it's unlikely the setting will see print again, or if it does it probably won't use the previous continuity, the sky's pretty much the limit concerning the ToUD. Make whatever you want with it.

[Don Fernando]

I really try to avoid the ToUD. IMHO the story was left in such a way that you either ignore all the material there is and develop your own ToUD; or you just go insane trying to develop every single Dread Possibility there is. Either way is a monstrous task (no pun intended), one I must admint, I walked away from a long time ago.

[Tenebris]

I'm working on my own, for the fun of it, and it would be a fitting finale for any Ravenloft campaign, but who knows if my group ever makes it that far. In Ravenloft I don't think we've ever played past 12th level, just due to the story arcs we had. We've done some high level play in Planescape but that was tailor made for it.

It's interesting that Vecna was planning to be involved because my instinct is for him to play a large role in ToUD as well.

[Mangrum]

Is there any compiled source on everything that was ever revealed--both in official products and in author/developer discussions--on the ToUD? I've always been insanely curious about it, but I've never been able to dig up much on what was planned.

The short answer is that the designers always kept the ToUD as vague as possible; like the Dark Powers themselves, it was really just there to plant ideas in DMs' heads.

Long answer: Neither the Kargat nor the Kargatane ever had any definite plans. I can't speak to what the TSR Kargat may have individually imagined beyond that (though they did leave a few unrealized plans at the end there, some of which we enacted, and some of which we abandoned), but I can say that the Kargatane only had a few vague notions about the ToUD, most of which are actually seeded into our first book. Really, the most concrete notion we held was that the ToUD should be the culmination of a long series of dark turns--the Demiplane of Dread gradually growing darker and darker as the End Times approached, rather than a singular Conjunction-like event.

Realistically, though, since we more-or-less maintained TSR's game years = real years schedule, we knew that if anyone actually dealt with the ToUD, it would be the problem of some generation of designers to follow us, and there was no point in our trying to lock them into anything.

As for myself, when we started work on the Gazetteers I sketched out what amounted to a six-year plan; I bet Matthew L. Martin actually has a better recollection of specific details than I do. In the best of all possible worlds, where the Kargatane's publishing schemes went off without a hitch, Ravenloft Gazetteer XIII would have been published in early 2008. I assumed that by that time, D&D would be due for 4th edition. In fact, I was worried that we might run out of time at the end there; turns out I was right on the money! Anyway, Gazetteer XIII was to have marked the final book in the 3rd edition Ravenloft line, and that even if I was still working on the line at that time, that it would mark my official point of departure.

In-game, that schedule meant that "S" was due to write her final words in the fall of 762 BC, bringing down the curtain on 3rd edition Ravenloft an even 13 years before the prophesied ToUD. This was a coincidence, but I liked the idea of running with it. The only specific ideas I ever had about the ToUD were that in 775 BC, Irik Zal'Honan would be alive and 13 years old, and that Rudolph van Richten, having been de-aged in Bleak House, would once again reach the age he had been at when Baron Metus destroyed his family. What that means, who can say?

[Tenebris]

Another option, especially if you want to run some of the classic modules, is to run the modules mostly chronologically and scale them up or down according to party level. The only changes I would recommened is to run the GC Hexad in level order rather then release order (Night of the Walking Dead-->Touch of Death-->Feast of Goblyns-->Ship of Horror [caveat emptor this one requires a LOT of work before running but the basic premise is fairly good]-->From the Shadows-->Root of Evil. Furthermore, although Thoughts of Darkness is officially pre-GC at 739, I would recommend running it post-GC and making the appropiate changes (which are in fact minimal), as it is a high level adventure that really works best at high level.

Modules such as House of Strahd, House on Gryphon Hill, Neither Man Nor Beast, and The Evil Eye, to name a few are all quite scaleable and would make great post GC adventures from these you could work your way to Bleak House with the dramatic death of Von Richten and the Shadow Rift, both of which are also easy to scale. Alternatively you could run Grim Harvest after GC, but what I would recommend, if you want to try and use a module path, is to alternate some of the aforementioned with the Grim Harvest modules so the storyline is less linear. Using such a method there is more then enough content to keep the pc's busy until you are ready to unleash ToUD on them. (Provided by some miracle they have survived your campaign to that point)

[Matthew L. Martin]

As for myself, when we started work on the Gazetteers I sketched out what amounted to a six-year plan; I bet Matthew L. Martin actually has a better recollection of specific details than I do. In the best of all possible worlds, where the Kargatane's publishing schemes went off without a hitch, Ravenloft Gazetteer XIII would have been published in early 2008. I assumed that by that time, D&D would be due for 4th edition. In fact, I was worried that we might run out of time at the end there; turns out I was right on the money! Anyway, Gazetteer XIII was to have marked the final book in the 3rd edition Ravenloft line, and that even if I was still working on the line at that time, that it would mark my official point of departure.

And nearly everything I know was revealed a couple of Halloweens back when I 'escaped' from my hiding place in the Kargatane Bookshop and told all. The archives should be around here somewhere.

In-game, that schedule meant that "S" was due to write her final words in the fall of 762 BC, bringing down the curtain on 3rd edition Ravenloft an even 13 years before the prophesied ToUD. This was a coincidence, but I liked the idea of running with it. The only specific ideas I ever had about the ToUD were that in 775 BC, Irik Zal'Honan would be alive and 13 years old, and that Rudolph van Richten, having been de-aged in Bleak House, would once again reach the age he had been at when Baron Metus destroyed his family. What that means, who can say?

There was one other bit that was seeded into Gaz II--if you take Darcalus as the 'mirror image' of Azalin, and calcuate the length of Azalin's reign as equal to that of Darcalus . . . you hit an end point of 775.

I believe you also had the idea of a young Irik (or maybe it was van Richten?) talking Azalin down from his last megalo-/monomaniacal scheme, or otherwise thwarting it.

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

So I was thinking about S the other day and something I read about a clue being in From the Shadows or Roots of Evil.

What if S is actually a head in Avernus, like the PCs in Roots of Evil and the bracer acts as a channel for her spirit to find her newest clone. Azalin has the cloning room in Avernus that could reclone PCs if they died, so why not do it for S? After all, it means he can have her wander the domains and get in as much danger as she likes, because if she dies, her consciousness just flies back to Avernus via the bracer and he can send it out to the next clone. S wakes up, like she did in Valachan, and has no idea that she's just a head on a shelf in Avernus. She can die as many times as she likes, because it's not her body that's dying. Azalin has her mind and body safe, so he cares not what happens to her on her travels because he ultimately believes she is safe.

[Bluebomber4evr]

So I was thinking about S the other day and something I read about a clue being in From the Shadows or Roots of Evil.

What if S is actually a head in Avernus, like the PCs in Roots of Evil and the bracer acts as a channel for her spirit to find her newest clone. Azalin has the cloning room in Avernus that could reclone PCs if they died, so why not do it for S? After all, it means he can have her wander the domains and get in as much danger as she likes, because if she dies, her consciousness just flies back to Avernus via the bracer and he can send it out to the next clone. S wakes up, like she did in Valachan, and has no idea that she's just a head on a shelf in Avernus. She can die as many times as she likes, because it's not her body that's dying. Azalin has her mind and body safe, so he cares not what happens to her on her travels because he ultimately believes she is safe.

I believe it's been stated that S was to eventually figure this out, which is why she was going to sacrifice herself by having her consciousness subsumed by the Illithid God-Brain at the end of the Gaz metaplot.