Religious Deception

[Jimsolo]

So, recently the cleric in my game died. (Okay, technically, she died a long time ago when she got murdered by her doppelganger, spawned from a jumped up Mirror of Opposition, only to be replaced by the doppelganger, whom I allowed the player to control in lieu of her old character under the assumption that the players would eventually figure it out. By the time they did, they decided they liked the 'evil twin' better, and allowed her to run off and join the Carnival.)

The player is now playing a cleric of Hala. However, her cleric of Hala is pretending to be an cleric of Ezra. She's even leading the local Ezran faith.

Is this a matter for the Dark Powers to take notice of? Should the PC in question be beholden to the oaths/vows/tenets of one, the other, or both religions? Do you guys even think this is an evil action at all? I'm very unsure of how to handle this situation, since it isn't one I ever prepared for. My old DnD games have tended to be Forgotten Realms campaigns, and the penalties in that setting for pretending to be a cleric of another god are so steep that no one ever dares try it.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Hazgarn]

I think the greatest consideration in this situation would concern how they minister their flock. If they are leading the local Ezra worshipers in a way consistent with the teachings of Ezra, if they are leading their congregation closely to how an Ezran cleric of comparable alignment would do so, if their methods and the impact they are having in the spirit of the god and sect they are deceptively speaking for then I don't see that the transgression would be significant enough to merit measurable attention from the Dark Powers. Perhaps a watchful eye, but not a Powers Check. Though it is conceivable that they might set obstacles or complications in their path that would force them to lose that balance one way or the other.

However, if they are leading those followers astray from their true faith, however subtly or unintentionally, then it might.

Of course, the characters motive in the deception might also be a factor.

[Epically]

Whatever you decide, don't forget that the "gods" might strip them of their powers also.

[alhoon]

I don't think that happens in Ravenloft. Since it all comes from the Mists and they LOVE such kinds of things.

[Manofevil]

Your PC has serious identity issues.

[vipera aspis]

I wouldn't involve the dark powers. I bet droves of Halan witches hide their true identities. That's how they survive. I'd give bonus xp's and request knowledge(religion) roles though.

[Ryan Naylor]

I wouldn't involve the dark powers. I bet droves of Halan witches hide their true identities. That's how they survive. I'd give bonus xp's and request knowledge(religion) roles though.

I agree.

You've either got a priest of Hala teaching the worship of Hala by another name, or a priest of Hala teaching the worship of Ezra. Neither god is evil, and Hala doesn't teach that she is the only true god so there's nothing evil happening here so far as I can see.

[Jimsolo]

I don't think that happens in Ravenloft. Since it all comes from the Mists and they LOVE such kinds of things.

I totally agree, alhoon. The disconnect between gods and their followers is part of what makes Ravenloft spooky. It also leads to some of the worst atrocities from Outlander clergy.

Rogue: Uh, I think this is kind of evil.
Cleric: Nonsense! If my actions were evil, then Lathander would have stripped me of my clerical spells!
Rogue: Oh. Well, that makes sense.
Cleric: Good, now go decapitate those widows and orphans...

I wouldn't involve the dark powers. I bet droves of Halan witches hide their true identities. That's how they survive. I'd give bonus xp's and request knowledge(religion) roles though.

I agree.

You've either got a priest of Hala teaching the worship of Hala by another name, or a priest of Hala teaching the worship of Ezra. Neither god is evil, and Hala doesn't teach that she is the only true god so there's nothing evil happening here so far as I can see.

I wasn't so much thinking of her taking a DP check for the deception so much. I was more wondering if she might run afoul of checks for violating the vows, oaths, or more specifically the tenets of the religion she's posing as.

If she preaches Halan dogma as Ezran dogma, is that wrong? It's certainly deceptive. I don't think its DP worthy, but its certainly shady.

[Hazgarn]

If she preaches Halan dogma as Ezran dogma, is that wrong? It's certainly deceptive. I don't think its DP worthy, but its certainly shady.

This is why I think that the impact on her followers is the largest consideration here. A Halan priestess who preaches Ezra to Ezrans isn't doing anything wrong, in my opinion, but a Halan priestess who preaches Hala's values in Ezra's name is breaching the trust of those who look to her for spiritual guidance.

[alhoon]

Are Hala's values that different from Ezra's values?

After all, we have Lawful good dogma of Ezra down to Lawful evil dogma of Ezra. Some preach that in order to protect you have to commit atrocities, under the name of Ezra.

[Jimsolo]

That's the problem. There's no satisfactory write-up on Ezra or Hala in the 3rd ed books. There's a partial write-up on Ezra in Dragon 359, but Hala has never had a write-up that includes her dogma or any description of the operations of her church beyond the single sentence summary given in the core book. I'm kind of having to fly by the seat of my pants here, but I can certainly see that there could be issues of conflicting dogma.

And since Ezra is such a divided deity, I can honestly see two ways to work it. The first is to judge her according to the Mordentish version of Ezra (when it comes to her leading Ezrans 'astry' that is) since that's where her 'flock' is, or I can have her judged according to the LN version, since that's Ezra's 'primary' alignment.

[Cam]

Interesting thread! If this happened in a game I ran, I think I would let the PC pull it off for a while, but eventually I'd have the masquerade start to unravel somehow. Powers checks wouldn't have to be the cause of the unraveling (although they could be if you wanted them to be and if the priest at issue was actually committing evil acts in your opinion). It could unravel due to more mundane circumstances -- local churchgoers see him/her performing foreign religious rituals in his basement or something like that. Or perhaps a rival of the priest or a local monster uses divination to check up on the priest and finds something amiss. Or, if you haven't used the canon inquisitions present in the Core much in your game, you could have inquisitors from some seat of power of the Church of Ezra start making trouble and testing people's faith.

In Ravenloft I feel it is my obligation as a crafty DM to present PCs with these sorts of obstacles. PCs can certainly succeed in schemes like this one, but making it hard to do so fits the setting nicely.

Another fun thing to do might be to have this PC have dreams or visions about Ezra, or start to manifest abilities that only priests of Ezra generally have. Say your PC is in a fight, and is about to take melee damage, when all of a sudden a magical shield of Ezra manifests in front of him/her, saving the day. It might be interesting to test his/her faith that way.

[High Priest Mikhal]

In Ravenloft it's not the gods who grant divine power, so the Forgotten Realms model can be thrown out quite easily. As for penalties for pretending to be the cleric of a different god, that's a DM call. I would say there's no mechanical penalty since many domains that are religious can be extremely zealous about their dominant religion. Pretending to follow another god is simple survival. Halite witches and warlocks know this all too well. But if a cleric truly believes that posing as the servant of another god is a sin then a powers check could be warranted; faith and belief are more important than divine mandate in Ravenloft.

One potential problem is carrying out the mandated rites of one's true god without being caught. Another is that various religions can have opposing tenets and failure to uphold such can risk the disguise. Performing the tenets could well risk powers checks for failing to adhere to their true religion's tenets. If the religion in question is evil then performing their tenets could call for sequential powers checks for committing evil acts as well as violating personal religious tenets.

[Boris Drakov]

One of my PCs is playing a Morninglord cleric masquerading as a priest of the Eternal Order. A means of self preservation and not DP worthy IMO.

Of course, if he has to participate in for his deity evil deeds to keep up his act that's another matter.

And DMs have a tendency to enable such situations to occur.

[Jimsolo]

Eh, issue's a moot point.

Cleric in question died horribly, so it's kind of inconsequential at this point.