Dragons in Ravenloft

[Hamiclar]

How about the dracolich? I ran one in 2nd ed and the cult to support it which was nemesis for the party for many sessions. With the rewriting of lich's in VR guide, maybe a vassalich would be an additional since dragons could pass on their secrets of magic of the weave In the original Ravenloft their were two dragons at the entry which was changed later to gargoyles.

[HuManBing]

And don't forget about Ebb!

I like Ebb!

In my campaign, Ebb and Gloom are a mated pair, with significantly different abilities. They occasionally have hatchlings and send them over the border to stir up trouble in Falkovnia. Ebb also has an arcane link to the Shadow Rift, given her nature as a Shadow Dragon (or Voidwyrm) in my campaign.

[Quinntonia]

Have you ever thought of allowing a Dragon to move at will through any or all of the domains and be a royal pain on the ass for both denizens and Dark Lords?

I think I am remembering this idea from the Kingdom of land over novels that I read as a kid, wherein the one dragon involved was an amazingly powerful creature that could move from world to world with no one able to stop it.

I kind if dig that idea.

[Ryan Naylor]

In fairness, any creature except a dark lord can move at will from domain to domain provided the borders aren't closed.

And if they had the prospect of getting rid of dragon, I can't imagine many dark lords would close the borders.

[Quinntonia]

In fairness, any creature except a dark lord can move at will from domain to domain provided the borders aren't closed.

And if they had the prospect of getting rid of dragon, I can't imagine many dark lords would close the borders.

I know, but I am thinking of a situation wherein even closing the borders from a dragon leaving or coming would have no effect, or at least be able to be overcome by the dragon.

[High Priest Mikhal]

Dragons in Ravenloft could fit, depending on what they symbolize. In the West the dragon is very much associated with the serpent in the Garden of Eden and with avarice, greed, and nature at its most cruel. A zombie or skeletal dragon in Forlorn, for example, could represent nature at its most corrupted as well.

Eastern legends paint dragons as wise teachers, guardians, and emissaries of the Celestial Bureaucracy as well as forces of nature. In such a role it's hard for me, at least, to imagine such a creature existing without either being corrupted or acting as a foil to a darklord.

Besides Ebb (and Gloom) there's the fictional Banemaw in Avonleigh, a great red wyrm that Elena Faith-hold claims she holds at bay. If a real red dragon were to appear she would likely be outmatched, and it would be poetic justice if a Mists-spawned version of Banemaw were to appear and taunt her with the truth about her fallen status.

[HuManBing]

Speaking of Asian dragons, I do have a hidden dragon in my current campaign. It's the familiar of our savante mage, and if she recovers the five Chinese elemental artifacts, the dragon will shed its humble guise and escape. It's far too powerful to have around as a brute force henchman, but I thought it might be fun to have it grant her spells, as though it were a divine or arcane magical source. This works heavily off of Spirit Assisted Magic in GURPS, and I'm also going to tie it in with Chinese Thaumatology, due for release later this year. If there's interest in an Asian dragon magic system, I can post my workthrough here. Several of you have already given some really good ideas for adventures involving the five Chinese Elements in Ravenloft.

[Zettaijin]

HMB, work in the five element ninja and I'm sold!

[DannWyrm]

I was toying around with a "benefactor of a benefactor" for the party being an eastern dragon. The benefactor is a merchant from Rokushima who received a blessing of sorts from the dragon: in exchange for wealth and knowledge from beyond his sphere of influence, he gave her the "skill" required to navigate the Poison Sea that surrounds the islands. So, she gets rich with being one of the only people who can travel between the islands and the Core, and the dragon is given tons of knowledge that isn't available to him otherwise. That he demands a portion of her profits is just icing on the cake.

[Zettaijin]

As a kid I watched this anime called Keroko Demetan which featured a catfish as this monstrous undersea beast who demanded tributes from a cruel and wealthy bullfrog fellow in exchange for peace and protection.

Somehgow they made something as bland as a catfish quite menacing through the juxtaposition of the much smaller anthropomorphic frog characters and by casting in shadows most of the time.

The real issue isn't that dragons aren't scary or even "gothic", rather a steady diet of high fantasy changed our perceptions of dragons from mysterious and dangerous to something akin to a difficult, but otherwise all but unusual (if messy) affair. They're the mountain to climb, the master to best, the proving ground of so many aspiring knights and heroes.

The real challenge is dragging the beast from all the baggage that it carries in the minds of fantasy savvy players.

[High Priest Mikhal]

As a kid I watched this anime called Keroko Demetan which featured a catfish as this monstrous undersea beast who demanded tributes from a cruel and wealthy bullfrog fellow in exchange for peace and protection.

Hmm. I'm a self-admitted otaku and have been since '84 when Voltron first aired in the States. I don't remember ever seeing a show like that. But then it could be that I turned my back on the McCulture anime' in this country when it became popular.

[Zettaijin]

That's because it never aired in the 'States. It played heavily in Europe and Canada (in French), though.

It's a 1973 Tatsunoko anime aimed at kids (aired around the early 80's in Quebec), meaning that anthropomorphic animals get beaten to a bloody pulp and suffer various forms of psychological trauma as a result of seeing mass torture/death (but regain their senses in time for the next episode). The catfish had us shivering in our pyjamas.

Another one by the same company was Minashingo Hutchi, the tale of an orphan bee who gets regularly (and violently) bullied by larger insects and rejected by the rest. One day he makes butterfly friends but then finds them dying, pinned inside a bug collector's glass frame.

In hindsight, that stuff was pretty heavy for little kids back in the days.

In case you haven't noticed I live in Japan and have been here for over 3 years now. However, I can't say adult anime gets much worse than what is commercially available in North America (although real life stuff is notorious among us ex-pats for having extreme niche markets and thus unusual productions).

[Zilfer]

That's because it never aired in the 'States. It played heavily in Europe and Canada (in French), though.

It's a 1973 Tatsunoko anime aimed at kids (aired around the early 80's in Quebec), meaning that anthropomorphic animals get beaten to a bloody pulp and suffer various forms of psychological trauma as a result of seeing mass torture/death (but regain their senses in time for the next episode). The catfish had us shivering in our pyjamas.

Another one by the same company was Minashingo Hutchi, the tale of an orphan bee who gets regularly (and violently) bullied by larger insects and rejected by the rest. One day he makes butterfly friends but then finds them dying, pinned inside a bug collector's glass frame.

In hindsight, that stuff was pretty heavy for little kids back in the days.

In case you haven't noticed I live in Japan and have been here for over 3 years now. However, I can't say adult anime gets much worse than what is commercially available in North America (although real life stuff is notorious among us ex-pats for having extreme niche markets and thus unusual productions).

Was wondering that myself but figured someone else might comment. How is it in Japan? Always want to go but afraid to go place I don't speak the language! XD

[Zettaijin]

This is getting a little off topic here...

I simply wanted to share the catfish monster story to provide an example of something that isn't in of itself scary simply because humans are the predators here.

As for Japan, I'll sum up my thoughts in a private message to avoid derailing this thread further.

[High Priest Mikhal]

I've been otaku (yes, I know it means "obsessed fan" in Japanese) since I was two years old and painstakingly collected gaming magazine clippings, video games, VHS (remember those?), toys, tabletop RPGs, manga, and other items that made it to the States before things like Pokemon, Dragon Ball, and other things brought anime' into the mainstream awareness in the States where American McCulture seeped in and changed things so they would be more "culturally acceptable," and poseurs who haven't even heard of anything prior to 1997 claim to be otaku themselves. Or worse, don't even know the classics that inspired bad ripoffs (I'm looking at you, ADVision, and your awful Bubblegum Crisis Mega-Tokyo 2040 remake). As I said, I admit to being otaku (in the literal meaning and the newer meaning of anime' fan) and I'm proud of it.

For me, it's not merely a hobby, it's an entire lifestyle. Yes, I already know there are entire groups like me in Japan. They exist over here, too. I refer folks to my work at the CthulhuTech forums for a glimpse at the depths of my madness.

Now since this getting off-topic, let's just agree to end this discussion and focus on the OP.