5e announced!

[Joël of the FoS]

Thank you guys, it sounds interesting.

[Jester of the FoS]

Each of the twelve classes will have its own quirks:

For example, the sorcerer has the ability to choose from the equivalent of Pathfinder's bloodlines (though according to rumors only two are given in the PHB: Draconic and Wild Magic). The wizard will of course follow the schools of magic (though Invocation has been removed). The warlock will have three Pacts (they seem to be adopting 4E on this one: fey, hellish and far realm).

The invocation is in BASIC D&D. I.e. it hasn't been removed.
Also: Draconic and Wild magic bloodlines were from 4e. PFinder perhaps used those too.

Draconic sorcerers were implied kin 3e, although they had no mechanical distinction.
Wild magic goes back to 2e and the Tome of Magic

[alhoon]

IIRC sorcerers were at the very end of 2e, they were practically 3e thing.

[Bluebomber4evr]

IIRC sorcerers were at the very end of 2e, they were practically 3e thing.

Nope, they first appeared in the 3rd edition PHB and were never in any 2nd edition books.

[alhoon]

But... Baldur's gate had them!

[Dion of the Fraternity]

Sorcerers in Baldur's Gate (Shadows of Amn) appeared more or less at the same time after 3E came out, even if BG itself was using 2E rules.

[Mortavius]

IIRC sorcerers were at the very end of 2e, they were practically 3e thing.

The closest thing 2E had to Sorcerers was an optional spellcasting system in Player's Option: Spells & Magic that was a spell point system.

BG1 didn't have Sorcerers, Monks, or Barbarians (although the new, re-done version of BG does), but BG2 had them. As others have said though, that's because BG2 came out right around the time of 3E (I think maybe *just* before it) so they were kinda tying it together with 3E; the mechanics for the Barbarian & Monk are a lot closer to 3E mechanics than the previous 2E incarnations IIRC.

[Mortavius]

Academically speaking, I just prefer they change the DEFINITION of a demiplane, to "A plane between to planes" like Ravenloft between Prime material and Negative, Feywild between prime material and energy, magma between earth and fire etc.

In any case, placing Ravenloft as the "Default" between Negative and Prime means that it should grow in size, be easier to escape and have an overwhelming majority of domains at CL7.

Although, with the Prime setting changing to Forgotten Realms (which has areas in CL8) it means we could have domains in CL8.

Personally, I wouldn't like that.

I agree with your point about the definition of "demiplane" I have no issues with that.

But it seems like you're implying that Ravenloft should become the new "Shadowfell" for 5E. My issue with that, is that Ravenloft is not always a carbon-copy of the Prime. Some areas are, but some are created from whole cloth. And areas which are not next to each other in the Prime are next to each other in Ravenloft.

If Ravenloft were just a copy of the Prime (or Faerun, if that's the default) it would mess up a lot of established Ravenloft, which I don't think they're going for.

Plus, escaping being hard had been a core idea in the setting since it's inception. It's not a big deal, but I don't see any reason to change that, and I wouldn't be in favor of it if they did.

As an aside, are you sure that Faerun is the default setting? I only ask because the PHB online had a lot of references to both Krynn (DragonLance) and Faerun in it.

[alhoon]

Personally, I wouldn't like that.

But it seems like you're implying that Ravenloft should become the new "Shadowfell" for 5E.

I'm not implying it. WotC said Ravenloft will become the new Shadowfell for 5E. It also kinda put me off, for the reasons I mentioned above (easier to escape, CL7 mostly, far bigger) etc.
BTW it doesn't seem the "near" planes will be distorted images of prime material anymore. I.e. Near-fire will just have lots of volcanos, near water oceans etc.

In any case, I hope they kinda change their mind and keep Ravenloft separate, even if it goes between Negative and Prime.

As an aside, are you sure that Faerun is the default setting? I only ask because the PHB online had a lot of references to both Krynn (DragonLance) and Faerun in it.

I saw that too... but they said they switched to FR as the default setting. The D&D daily had an article devoted to why they did it.
(as they also had an article about how Feywild will be between Near-positive plave, how Ravenloft will be near-negative plane etc).

[Mortavius]

Personally, I wouldn't like that.

But it seems like you're implying that Ravenloft should become the new "Shadowfell" for 5E.

I'm not implying it. WotC said Ravenloft will become the new Shadowfell for 5E. It also kinda put me off, for the reasons I mentioned above (easier to escape, CL7 mostly, far bigger) etc.

I did a bit of digging, and this is all I could find:

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx ... l/2013end1

Basically, it just says that Ravenloft will be the plane between the Prime and the Negative. It doesn't really address escape, size, CL, or anything else. I think for my own peace of mind, I'm just going to assume that Ravenloft is staying the same, until I read something definitive on it. Or do you have a link that goes into more detail alhoon?

[Bluebomber4evr]

Yeah, I think you're reading too much into it, Alhoon. They never said Ravenloft would work just like the Shadowfell, just that it would replace the Shadowfell as "the plane in between the Prime and Negative Energy planes." Given that they're trying not to invalidate past works, it most likely will look and work very closely to the traditional Ravenloft of previous editions.

[alhoon]

I did a bit of digging, and this is all I could find:

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx ... l/2013end1

Basically, it just says that Ravenloft will be the plane between the Prime and the Negative. It doesn't really address escape, size, CL, or anything else. I think for my own peace of mind, I'm just going to assume that Ravenloft is staying the same, until I read something definitive on it. Or do you have a link that goes into more detail alhoon?

Nope. That's all I saw.
And they try to keep AD&D2 staff consistent with D&D next. So... the Core will probably stay there as it is, with a LOT of extra stuff that's not in the core.

Yeah, I think you're reading too much into it, Alhoon. They never said Ravenloft would work just like the Shadowfell, just that it would replace the Shadowfell as "the plane in between the Prime and Negative Energy planes." Given that they're trying not to invalidate past works, it most likely will look and work very closely to the traditional Ravenloft of previous editions.

Probably, but they DO need tons of extra space, since the "border Negative plane" would need to be bigger than Switzerland IMO. As I said to Mortavious, I expect the Core to remain the same with some vague description about "a lot of clusters and islands in the mists".

I actually don't expect Ravenloft to cover more than 2-3 paragraphs (a sub-subsection) in the new DMG. They will IMO explain that escape is next to impossible, that the Dark Powers trap evil people, that magic is altered and the "lay of the land" (mists, core, clusters, domains, pockets).
And leave the 99% of pre-existing lore out as far as names of domains, themes, pre-existing darklords etc go. Tabula Rasa for the DM (that can find the old material and decide whether to use it). Perhaps Strahd will be mentioned, but that will be it IMO. Not even stuff like "Richemulot, a land ruled by the ruthless and cunning wererat Jacqueline Renier and her family" in the DMG.

[Dion of the Fraternity]

The invocation is in BASIC D&D. I.e. it hasn't been removed.

Actually they've been removed for wizards. Invocations still exist for warlocks, but there no longer is a "School of Invocation" option for wizards to specialize in.

The Document Which Will Not Be Named says so.

[alhoon]

So it's back to Evocation? I don't have D&D basic with me. I thought it was evocation or invocation as the example.

[Bluebomber4evr]

So it's back to Evocation? I don't have D&D basic with me. I thought it was evocation or invocation as the example.

Yup, back to Evocation: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx ... 2F20140728

Wizard: A wizard selects an arcane tradition—the specific approach to the study of magic that shapes his or her outlook and talents. Though many traditions exist, the Player's Handbook focuses on the established schools of D&D magic—Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, and Transmutation.