It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenloft?

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I was ''talking'' with James Lowder on FB earlier this week and what some people need to remember is that, because a / this book might not be for you, does not mean it is a bad book.

I think part of the issue there is, that people are coming to grips with the idea that if this book isn't for them, the book for them will never exist. It's easy to say "this one's not for me" when there are 10 more coming down the pike that might be. (No matter how much someone hated Champions of Darkness, hey Gaz II came out 2 months later, and VRGttWD two months after that.) But if you're an old-school Ravenloft fan who's been hoping for a revival that picks up where old-school left off, this book, the one singular book that's been announced, the clear break from the past, is a signal that your hopes will not be met by this book, nor any other book in the future. This is 5th edition Ravenloft now, for the remainder of the time 5th edition has left. 6th edition or later Ravenloft, if it exists, might ignore 5th, but it's not going back to 3rd. The 3e version will only ever be continued by fan-made stuff, here, on dmsguild, and elsewhere online.

I've come to terms with that, which is part of the reason for my optimism on the book as it is, on it's own merits. I have no illusions that the perfect book for me would ever be made, so I'm interested to see what the new twist is.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

At least some new material is still being made. Even if we dislike this book, it's at least a sign that Ravenloft hasn't been completely abandoned. There's a chance we'll see some new things we'll like, that will fuel our own creativity or that we can adapt to our own canon. WotC has some creative minds; let's find out what they came up with.
And hey, maybe some of the new kids starting out with 5e will like the setting enough that they'll find their way here.

[Jester of the FoS]

I was ''talking'' with James Lowder on FB earlier this week and what some people need to remember is that, because a / this book might not be for you, does not mean it is a bad book.

I think part of the issue there is, that people are coming to grips with the idea that if this book isn't for them, the book for them will never exist. It's easy to say "this one's not for me" when there are 10 more coming down the pike that might be. (No matter how much someone hated Champions of Darkness, hey Gaz II came out 2 months later, and VRGttWD two months after that.) But if you're an old-school Ravenloft fan who's been hoping for a revival that picks up where old-school left off, this book, the one singular book that's been announced, the clear break from the past, is a signal that your hopes will not be met by this book, nor any other book in the future. This is 5th edition Ravenloft now, for the remainder of the time 5th edition has left. 6th edition or later Ravenloft, if it exists, might ignore 5th, but it's not going back to 3rd. The 3e version will only ever be continued by fan-made stuff, here, on dmsguild, and elsewhere online.

I've come to terms with that, which is part of the reason for my optimism on the book as it is, on it's own merits. I have no illusions that the perfect book for me would ever be made, so I'm interested to see what the new twist is.

That's largely where I fall as well.

The book may have many cool ideas (and I can already tell there's some stuff I'd steal, like the tokens to reach domains through the Mists) but that's coming at the expense of so very much classic lore and characters.
The old Ravenloft is gone. And it's likely to be gone forever. Because WotC doesn't need to make books for us anymore, as there's such a young audience of new fans with no attachment to the past. And if they do a Ravenloft for 6e or 7e, it will likely draw on this book.

There was never realistically going be my perfect D&D book. But now they're moving farther and farther from even releasing an "okay D&D book." Because I'm superflous. The hobby has moved on without me. There's no longer a place for me in D&D.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

So I guess we agree that the answers on the question What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenloft? are

1. That is something totally different from the past editions.

2. We know that only a small part of it can be used for the "Old Ravenloft" fans.

3. That DM's and players who like the "Old Version" can still continue write/contribute in this forum and create adventures on DM's Guild.

4. That fans of "Old Good Ravenloft" (using it as an expression not as a way to say that 5th is inferior, we know it is different) should lose all hope of seeing an official product for the fantasy world they have come to love for the past 2 decades.

“Old One” was my name to her
- Tome of Strahd Von Zarovich

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Because I'm superflous. The hobby has moved on without me. There's no longer a place for me in D&D.

Don't despair. I would argue that there's always a place for you (or any of us) in D&D if we're willing to make one. You and I aren't WotC's target market anymore. That's fine. We have our old books, we have our creativity. D&D is and, always has been, bigger than the official products. As long as you can find at least one other person to play with who shares your sensibility, you can play D&D. D&D the brand, D&D the product line, those aren't D&D the game, or D&D the community.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

4. That fans of "Old Good Ravenloft"

I think you mean "Good Old Ravenloft". That's the idiom.

“Old One” was my name to her
- Tome of Strahd Von Zarovich

Perfect quote is perfect.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

I think you mean "Good Old Ravenloft". That's the idiom.:

Yes... but with a pronounciation "Good ol' Ravenloft".
Sounds better this way, thanks.

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

Someone on Reddit has made a list of the confirmed changes here.

Victor and Adam -> Viktra and Elise (both female, no mention of Adam and Victor whatsoever, and Labmordia is reskinned as Mad Scientist Land from the sleepy backwater with the lone genius amongst sheep)
Harkon Lukas -> depicted differently to previous editions, and has had his species changed to Loup-Garou from Wolfwere - losing the aspects of his character based around his rivalry with werewolves (his niece I think she was, Akriel Lukas, is shown too)
Vlad Drakov -> Vladeska (female), doesn't share Vlad Darkov's taste for orchestras with dinner and impaled folks as background decoration, also since the Core is no more, infinite zombies have replaced Vlad getting his butt whooped by all the dandies of surrounding domains, also Vladeska is a mere knight stat block compared to Vlad's level 14/15(?) Fighter
Urik von Khakov killed and replaced with Chakuna (a werepanther), this one at least is described in a way that allows for continuity with the old Valachan, though I think the domain itself may differ significantly - haven't looked into that yet but previews suggested it's like a talking-animals-free Wildlands type deal like a Battle Royale / Hunger Games scenario for D&D
Tristen and Malken -> Myar (female) and Malken - no explanation given for the change in gender so this seems to be a straight copy paste deal
Gondegal -> changed to female - appears as a plot hook rival to Vladeska's leadership, don't recall the stat block suggested but probably way less impressive than the OG Gondegal's 15 odd levels
Isolde -> changed from a Ghaele (a specific type of Greater Eladrin in 2E) to the new generic Eladrin of 5E, and she now has Nepenthe, a darklord sword similar to Ebonbane), she also has what looks like an entirely new backstory that has a few points of similarity with the original but more of the Seldarine and shadar-kai and such
Pieter van Riese -> Petra (female), another straight up gender swap it seems
Torrance Bleysmith -> Teresa (female), see above
Bluebeard has been overthrown by his wives, which is a plot development, but no detail on whether he's still alive and Darklord or dead and/or not Darklord anymore
Tristen ApBlanc is now a Damphir / Ghost, when he used to be a Vampyre (distinct creature variant from the garden variety vampire) / Ghost, otherwise seems the same, has an interest in devices - don't recall if that was a feature from og Forlorn
The Caller (dropped Gentleman, losing the point of the name, is now an incubus/succubus (not one or other, basically both)
Azalin is now free of Darkon and a traveling scholar (aware of an Escapee - Soth or Vecna?), Darkon is collapsing gradually while new wannabes jockey for leadership
Erasmus follows van Richten trying to help but he can't see him
Ivan Dilinsya put in a clockwork pram looking like a spider for unclear reasons that I may have missed
Baron Metus has been succeeded by his sister under the same title - this is another plot development it seems (nice when they bother with those)
Arijani is now one of three siblings, all cursed into their forms - his sister Reeva is an arcanaloth, and their other sister, the darklord, is a death knight (presumably replacing Lord Soth who is no longer with us... until nuDragonlance?) - originally he had a different backstory, the new version says nothing about him being a Priest of Kali, so that's changed, too
Lorinda has her sisters imprisoned and can cast hag coven spells with the cauldron imprisoning them, so still has that power, but with two less hag allies to fight on her side, apparently making her an easier target and allowing for you to turn them against each other by releasing the other sisters
Duke Gundar is now a plot hook in Barovia, unearthed by a fallen megalith of "Barovia's original inhabitants" (whatever that means in this context), and "immediately takes a disliking" to Strahd, he's a nosferatu as per the monster entry later in the book
EDIT : I neglected to give Dominic d'Honaire a mention, but he's been reduced to a plot hook in an asylum in his own shrunken domain with a new Cinderalla-esque Darklord in charge with Masque of Red Death flavouring... this is actually another development with cool potential, and you could give her Port-a-Lucine as a mini-domain within Dominic's or have her take over the whole as new Darklord - but the book version has reduced the domain to the one city

I swear, it’s not the changes to race and gender that upsets me, it’s the needless changes to canon when they could have created so much more and done something interesting. Even if, say Vladeska was Vlad’s daughter and became Lord because she murdered him because she wasn’t taken seriously by him because of her gender, that would be enough! At least there’s continuity like that in Valachan. But change for the sake of change, performative wokeness, if you will, adds nothing and takes away everything. It’s like I said, it’s self congratulatory backslapping to make the authors feel good about themselves without having to put any real effort in.

[Jander Sunstar]

I swear, it’s not the changes to race and gender that upsets me, it’s the needless changes to canon when they could have created so much more and done something interesting. Even if, say Vladeska was Vlad’s daughter and became Lord because she murdered him because she wasn’t taken seriously by him because of her gender, that would be enough! At least there’s continuity like that in Valachan. But change for the sake of change, performative wokeness, if you will, adds nothing and takes away everything. It’s like I said, it’s self congratulatory backslapping to make the authors feel good about themselves without having to put any real effort in.

I can agree to that 100%

[Igor the Henchman]

Drakov's case is one of the few instances where I think I can follow their reasoning. Since the writer didn't want Drakov to be Ravenloft's Vlad the Impaler any more (a choice I disagree with, but it was theirs to make), they reimagined the character as a genius general who never let fear of excessive bloodshed get in the way of her brilliant battle plans. And they made her a woman, to emphasize that she's a dispassionate and ruthless type, as opposed to Vlad the testosterone freak. Eventually her ambition escalated to the point where she betrayed the people who used to employ her to carve out her own kingdom. Now she's doomed to forever defend that kingdom from endless hordes of zombies who bear the faces of all the people she's killed.

Had they made her Vlad's daughter, the story wouldn't have worked.

Again, I'm not saying that Vladesca is better or worse than the old Vlad, only that I can guess their reasons for doing it this way.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

I like that character background.
If we tweak her to be a daughter of Vlad who managed to win his approval in spite of his mysoginy (maybe she could be in charge of Falkovnian "mercenary work" abroad for a time), only for her to betray everyone including him in a bid to conquer Falkovnia for her own ... Well. We could simply expand Falkovnia westward.
Now Vlad and Vladeska are stuck glaring daggers at each other across the borders and trying to balance the defense against the other's aggression with their own problems.
Vladeska did what no other woman could in her father's army, only now she has made it even more difficult for another woman to do the same. Vlad becomes even more twisted in his mounting paranoia, making it harder for his ministers to effectively rule Falkovnia and continue Drakov's overall strategy.
Azalin may be scheming to enlist Vladeska in a plan to eliminate Drakov. His peerless mastery over the undead makes a potent bargaining chip when negotiating with a Darklady with zombie troubles.
Or maybe it isn't Azalin. Maybe it's Misroi...

[Mephisto of the FoS]

Drakov's case is one of the few instances where I think I can follow their reasoning. Since the writer didn't want Drakov to be Ravenloft's Vlad the Impaler any more

I believe Drakov is closer to Stalin/Hitler/Pol Pot/Mao Zedong than Vlad Tepes Dracula. Especially in the 3rd edition were his title is Kingfürer but also in relation to the cities of Falkovnia, Stangengrad has a name reminiscent the names of cities in the USSR (Stalingrad, Leningad/Petrograd "grad" is a Slavic word meaning town/city/castle or fortified settlement.

they reimagined the character as a genius general who never let fear of excessive bloodshed get in the way of her brilliant battle plans. And they made her a woman, to emphasize that she's a dispassionate and ruthless type, as opposed to Vlad the testosterone freak. Eventually her ambition escalated to the point where she betrayed the people who used to employ her to carve out her own kingdom. Now she's doomed to forever defend that kingdom from endless hordes of zombies who bear the faces of all the people she's killed.

I believe she could still be a brilliant general, maybe disguised/dressed as a "man" (Joan of Arc style, although this would not be appropriate in wokness I guess...) or maybe she was a transgender general and somehow betrayed her king to gain power in a very devious way as mentioned before. I wouldn't make it an Azalin or any other darklords plan being the cause, because then she would just be a puppet to another darklord. Then again meybe this could be tied to her curse. As Vlad wanted respect for being a conquerer maybe she would want respect as she always sees herself as a puppet (although with joined domains this would work better).

Her curse being seeing faces of people she is responsible for their death is lame and it wouldn't work to a psychopath since psychopaths can't feel remorse just regret for not doing things in a different way (as to not get caught, not be discovered, playing their "cards" better etc).

Had they made her Vlad's daughter, the story wouldn't have worked.

I believe she could still be his daughter, shunned by her father for her gender but at the same time wanting his approval until she snapped and just betrayed him.

[Jander Sunstar]

I know that the new iteration of Harkon Lukas is missing his trademark monocle. I just found this on reddit, and I hope this will bring back some old school nostalgia...


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E00NzZLWEAA ... me=900x900

[Mephisto of the FoS]

I know that the new iteration of Harkon Lukas is missing his trademark monocle. I just found this on reddit, and I hope this will bring back some old school nostalgia...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E00NzZLWEAA ... me=900x900

He still looks like a character from Fortnite.

[Jonathan Winters]

Call me crazy, but seeing only the top portion WITH monocle... It does not seem so bad.
But we are missing that underlying sense of danger in his look.

Patrick