Before anyone else thinks it's a briiliant idea to write another darklord with a personality split...

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

The facts, as I understand them from my very basic research:

1) Dissociative Identity Disorder is caused by complex PTSD, usually from child abuse. You know how sometimes when people go through a traumatic event they just supress the memory so they won't have to deal with it, sometimes not remembering it at all? So when this happens to the same person a lot of times, from a very young age, sometimes entire sides of their personality are supressed along the way and develop completely seperate identities. That's the basic idea. If you wanna learn more, google it up.
There are other neurological or mental disorders that can cause someone to have multiple personalities, but they're much rarer.

2) There's nothing about DID that can make you more violent. Frankly, most dissociation disorders are more likely to make you passive and volunrable while others are violent to you.

3) Alter egos are defence mechanisms, sides of yourself that split apart to help you cope with something. There's no way to get rid of them - either you merge with them (which is very hard and often only temporary) or you learn to live with them.

4) Despite this, the vast majority of 'personality split' representation is villainous (I'm trying to think of non-villainous ones, and the only two examples that come to mind are A. a sitcom character who started as simply 'a guy who likes to play made-up characters in daily life' and turned into a DID system as the joke was taken further, and B. A Brandon Sanderson character, cause Sanderson is the best.), and two incredibly common tropes are the villain causing it themselves more or less intentionally via a bizzare scientific experiment, or a villainous alter ego 'taking over' a character out of nowhere.


My opinion:

While I understand the symbolism of the 'evil alter ego' as a manifestation of the dark impulses we as ordinary people possess and try to suppress, it's important to remember that we're talking about an actual disorder many people deal with.
People who, by default, had already suffered more than any living being should, even without having to see themselves as presented as villains over and over again.

I don't suffer from DID, but I do deal with a milder mental disorder that also gets misunderstood and misrepresented more often than not, and it took me a long time to even start suspecting it, cause literally every single word of the stereotype was wrong.
This is a real problem. This is stopping people from understanding themselves and getting the help they need.

I'm not asking you to always be politically correct with your art. Art isn't supposed to be didactive. Even blatantly offensive tropes have their use sometimes.

I'm just asking you:

When the majority of media and especially horror media chooses to demonize a certain condition for no reason other than copying from the same century-old novel or thinking it makes them look sophisticated, do you really want to join them?

If you want to really be original and mindblowing, do your research and create a positive, well-rounded NPC with reasonably scienficially-accurate DID.

(Same applies for a lot of other disabilities, BTW.)

[SamHain]

Just wait until you delve into the world of real life psychopathy vs how it is depicted in media.

I hear you. I understand where you're coming from. I agree with the sentiment.

Here's the thing though:

Darklords are not just villains. They are tragic villains. All of them, to a one. There is something awful that happened to them in their past, and in reaction to that trauma, they lashed out disproportionately. They are all, to a one, suffering from a disorder of one kind or another. In the overwhelming majority of cases, these disorders result in people who are mostly normal and just have a quirk (though admittedly, sometimes those quirks need medical attention via medication or therapy).

But, in rare instances, there is a perfect storm of circumstance —trauma, the presence or development of a disorder, the disorder sent in a particular direction by the trauma, and then neither the trauma nor the disorder being recognized or dealt with— which results someone who establishes/fits the stereotype. And because they did something to draw public attention, the public associates the crime with the disorder.

The media doesn't report on the born psychopath who was a difficult child, but then went on to become a successful businessman, doctor, or local politician. Society doesn't focus on the schizophrenic who talks to himself while he volunteers as a soup kitchen to feed the poor.

Human brains are wired to weigh negative experiences more heavily that they do positive ones. It is an old mechanism, a feature of the species' survival instinct that was a broader application than you might expect.

This is why stereotypes of this nature are so hard to tear down. Because one bad experience is enough to taint all future interactions.

TL;DR

Psychological disorders are almost mandatory for a Darklord. But if you're going to outright give your Darklord one, I agree that you should do research and understand what that disorder entails.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

Check Davion the Mad
https://fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Davion_the_Mad

[Igor the Henchman]

Just as vampire stories are not meant to be a commentary on real-world medical conditions like porphyria or rabies, very seldom does supernatural horror fiction use split personality tropes to comment on DID. More often, the condition is treated as, well, supernatural, and brought about by outside forces. Dr. Jekyll acquires it as a result of drinking pseudo-magical potion, Tristen Hiregaard is possessed by the lingering spirit of his evil father, etc.

Horror stories often tantalize us with imagery of creatures that contain contradictory ideas: a corpse that is also alive, a man who is also a beast, a thing of clay that walks. With horror stories about split personality, the contradictory idea is a 'me' who is also 'not me'. That is the itch being scratched within our imagination. It has nothing to do with how real split personalities actually are, and is probably more related to fears of sleepwalking, alien mind control, demonic possession, or similar.

[edised]

Idea for a split dark lord, twins that now share a body. A hard life and abuse they become dependent on each other, it is a toxic relationship.
One is more outgoing and forceful but also cruel, the other is much more passive but less confrontational. It went badly when the passive one started disagreeing with his brother.

[DustBunny]

One is more outgoing and forceful but also cruel, the other is much more passive but less confrontational.

Therese and Jeanette Voreman from the game Vampire: Bloodlines?

[Rock of the Fraternity]

One is more outgoing and forceful but also cruel, the other is much more passive but less confrontational.

Therese and Jeanette Voreman from the game Vampire: Bloodlines?

'Vore-man'? Really? 0_õ That's a bit unfortunate, given the setting.

[tomokaicho]

I remember Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD) from when I was a kid in the 1980s and 1990s. It was intertwined with the Satanic Panic. Quelle surprise, most of these cases turned out to be fraudulent. If you create a Malken like Darklord, there is zero chance that it resembles a real life mental illness, if that's what you are worried about.

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

Just wait until you delve into the world of real life psychopathy vs how it is depicted in media.

I hear you. I understand where you're coming from. I agree with the sentiment.

Here's the thing though:

Darklords are not just villains. They are tragic villains. All of them, to a one. There is something awful that happened to them in their past, and in reaction to that trauma, they lashed out disproportionately. They are all, to a one, suffering from a disorder of one kind or another.

There's a fine line with this.
Like, the less mentaly stable you portray your darklord as, the less they'd be seen as worthy of their punishment.

Take Strahd, for example. Does he have PTSD from the war against the Tergs? Probably.
Is his mid-life crisis understandable? Sure.
But he knew exactly what he's doing when he killed his brother. He wasn't so delusional that it'd be unreasonable to expect him to realise that's a hideous crime and the last thing that will make Tatyana love him. He was an adult, relatively sane man who chose violence over dealing with his emotions. It's an explanation, but not an excuse.

Dominic D'Honaire, on the other hand? I'm a little more skeptical about him. He was 8 years old, and his father was either oblivious to, in denial of or unwittingly encouraging his narcissistic tendencies. Are we sure he understood the moral consequences of his manipulations well enough to have criminal responsibility? Wasn't he perhaps still young enough to change? Maybe he needed therapy and a second chance rather than a curse and a power that will inevitably tempt him to commit further evil!
Like, the narrative tries so hard to portray him as this evil-from-birth absolute monster, that it accidentaly deprives him of responsibility for the acts that made him one.

Malken? He was the defense mechanism of a teenager forced by a curse to kill his girlfriends. He had no choice in the matter. He was nothing more than the part in Tristen's mind that committed the murders, the part he wasn't ready to confront. He was made to hold the memories, the guilt, the supressed sadism - and that's what he did. He was an alter ego protecting his core personality.
Now, if I wanted to adjust the story and make Malken more darklordhood-worthy, I'd make it clear that he started killing of his own volition before being taken by the mists - which the narrative is unclear about.

And when it gets to Davion the Mad -
Does anyone remember what exactly he did without checking?
No. People just remember he's mad. That's what he's famous for. The emphasis is on that rather then on his transgressions and punishment - which misses the mark.

In the overwhelming majority of cases, these disorders result in people who are mostly normal and just have a quirk (though admittedly, sometimes those quirks need medical attention via medication or therapy).

But, in rare instances, there is a perfect storm of circumstance —trauma, the presence or development of a disorder, the disorder sent in a particular direction by the trauma, and then neither the trauma nor the disorder being recognized or dealt with— which results someone who establishes/fits the stereotype. And because they did something to draw public attention, the public associates the crime with the disorder.

The media doesn't report on the born psychopath who was a difficult child, but then went on to become a successful businessman, doctor, or local politician. Society doesn't focus on the schizophrenic who talks to himself while he volunteers as a soup kitchen to feed the poor.

Human brains are wired to weigh negative experiences more heavily that they do positive ones. It is an old mechanism, a feature of the species' survival instinct that was a broader application than you might expect.

This is why stereotypes of this nature are so hard to tear down. Because one bad experience is enough to taint all future interactions.

My problem with the multiplicity stereotype is that I'm not sure it's even that.
Like, it's not an actual record of a serial killer suffering from this symptom that people remember. It's Jekyll & Hyde. A fictional book. The public's idea about a real-life disorder comes from an imaginary thought experiment that resembles it just enough to be misleading. And every writer reusing the trope is replicating the problem.

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

Just as vampire stories are not meant to be a commentary on real-world medical conditions like porphyria or rabies, very seldom does supernatural horror fiction use split personality tropes to comment on DID. More often, the condition is treated as, well, supernatural, and brought about by outside forces. Dr. Jekyll acquires it as a result of drinking pseudo-magical potion, Tristen Hiregaard is possessed by the lingering spirit of his evil father, etc.

Horror stories often tantalize us with imagery of creatures that contain contradictory ideas: a corpse that is also alive, a man who is also a beast, a thing of clay that walks. With horror stories about split personality, the contradictory idea is a 'me' who is also 'not me'. That is the itch being scratched within our imagination. It has nothing to do with how real split personalities actually are, and is probably more related to fears of sleepwalking, alien mind control, demonic possession, or similar.

The thing is this: Vampirism is distant enough for nobody to get mixed up. No real-life medical condition will make you immortal, capable of transforming into a sentient ray of dust, lethally sensitive to sunlight, incapable of reciving nourishment from anything but blood AND lose your grasp of morality at the same time. It's outlandish enough to serve as an allegory to a thousand different things.

I like your psychological explanation for what the trope is supposed to represent. But my complaint is about the way it steps on real-life people in the process, often with no awareness of it.

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

I remember Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD) from when I was a kid in the 1980s and 1990s. It was intertwined with the Satanic Panic. Quelle surprise, most of these cases turned out to be fraudulent. If you create a Malken like Darklord, there is zero chance that it resembles a real life mental illness, if that's what you are worried about.

Like, no offence, but you're a perfect example of the problem.

MPD is an outdated term - the modern, more accurate diagnosis is Dissociative Identity Disorder - but it's a real condition. I've talked to people who suffer from it.
But the problem is, people only know the fakes. They only know the ridiculous representation it gets in media, and have nothing more realiatic to compare it too.

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

Also, a disclaimer:
I like Tristen and Malken's story.
I like how it manages to put the trope in a new context. I like how it touches on the subject of generational trauma. I like how it's more complex than 'bad split, good split' - Tristen is a well-intentioned but very flawed man, Malken is a vile murderer but also at the end of the day protecting Tristen from his own past. I like how it gives the players a reason to meet the darklord without killing him.

I just think that when we come to create homebrew characters, we don't need to add more fuel to the fire.
Like, currently Mistipedia has a whole category named 'Multiple Personality Disorder' - it's composed of two darklords, three flesh golems, two monstrous serial killers, The Red Haunt's gazillion alter egos & one chaotic neutral villager cursed by the vistani. That's the state of representation in the fandom.

[tomokaicho]

]

Like, no offence, but you're a perfect example of the problem.

MPD is an outdated term - the modern, more accurate diagnosis is Dissociative Identity Disorder - but it's a real condition. I've talked to people who suffer from it.
But the problem is, people only know the fakes. They only know the ridiculous representation it gets in media, and have nothing more realiatic to compare it too.

You missed my point. It was called Multiple Personality Disorder at the time. The term was changed because the condition had nothing to do with the multiple personalities seen on TV. Which is say, multiple personalities do not exist, and Dissociative Identity Disorder is not multiple personalities, the diagnosis of Dissociative Identity Disorder does not resemble any fictional character, and there is no reason for anyone to offended or for me to be "part of the problem". There is no problem. There is no trend of attacking attacking people suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder.

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

]

Like, no offence, but you're a perfect example of the problem.

MPD is an outdated term - the modern, more accurate diagnosis is Dissociative Identity Disorder - but it's a real condition. I've talked to people who suffer from it.
But the problem is, people only know the fakes. They only know the ridiculous representation it gets in media, and have nothing more realiatic to compare it too.

You missed my point. It was called Multiple Personality Disorder at the time. The term was changed because the condition had nothing to do with the multiple personalities seen on TV. Which is say, multiple personalities do not exist, and Dissociative Identity Disorder is not multiple personalities, the diagnosis of Dissociative Identity Disorder does not resemble any fictional character, and there is no reason for anyone to offended or for me to be "part of the problem". There is no problem. There is no trend of attacking attacking people suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder.

Let me understand.
Your claim is that the common representation in media so different from reality that it's no longer relevant and thus no longer offensive.
My claim is that the common representation in media being so different from reality - yet close enough to sound the same to folks with no knowledge on the subject - is spreading misinformation.

[tomokaicho]

Let me understand.
Your claim is that the common representation in media so different from reality that it's no longer relevant and thus no longer offensive.
My claim is that the common representation in media being so different from reality - yet close enough to sound the same to folks with no knowledge on the subject - is spreading misinformation.

Well, I am old enough to remember this stuff happening at the time. I surmise you have no frame of reference, and you are producing a victim group out of nothing.