Modified Firearm Rounds

[Rotipher of the FoS]

If it's ice ammunition you're looking to use, I think a plain old slingshot would be a lot easier to justify than an air-rifle. The ice could be frozen around a lead core, if it's not heavy enough to give distance; the lower velocity would ensure the ice won't crack when fired, and it'd be even quieter than a pneumatic mechanism.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

but I recall reading a mystery story where the killer used a specially made air rifle (since the bullets 'disappeared' by melting, the killings were extra mysterious).

I believe Mythbusters busted this one, but then again, they don't use magic...

[Jester of the FoS]

If using a realworld basis drilling as said before would probably not work as it would make the bullets more likely to go off course or shatter.

Reflected in a -1 to hit.
And ice bullet wouldn't work. It shatters on impact and a target you'd use one on wouldn't have the body heat necessary to melt it.

[Archedius]

just had a thought- the hollow musketball thing probably wouldn't even release its contents (if made by magic e.x. Fabricate). If the ball could- it would be fragile enough to be broken in the barrel upon firing.

Also- ice musketball would shatter/melt when fired from a regular musket/blunderbuss. An 'air rifle' would probably work (ice balls do work in paintball guns and if it's pure enough ice- might not shatter on impact) for this but would be very impractical and expensive. You'd be better off with a crossbow or bow. : )

[Rotipher of the FoS]

For that matter, how easy is it for PCs to carry ice bullets around, in a world without refrigeration? Even if you keep hitting the bag of bullets with ray of frost spells, you'd think their shapes would distort with repeated thawings and re-freezings. And if you've got magic enough to craft an enchanted cold-storage box, you can probably also come up with a more efficient way to strike at monsters than holy ice bullets.

[alhoon]

For the ice to be of sufficient hardness, I believe a temperature of at least -50C is needed.
A magic container could produce this though. However even handling these things could be dangerous.

I would suggest the following:

refrigerating pouch: CL 9th, Craft wondrous item, Cone of Cold spell.
Market price 5x9x1000 = 45000. Cost 22500 + 1800XP.
Freezes everything inside to -50 C. Can hold up to 25 bullets.
Handling anything so cool in the pouch without gloves deals 1d3 cold damage.
Bullets etc placed in the pouch deal an extra 1d4 cold damage when fired. Holy ice bullets are possible to store in there.

If they are made of ice only it's a -2 to hit rolls. If they are made of ice and lead they have a -1 to hit rolls.

[JinnTolser]

That's hideously expensive for something with so little practical use. Must cone of cold be the base spell for it? For what amounts to a magical icetray, surely ray of frost would do. And if not, there must be a cold spell somewhere between levels 1-4 that's slipping my mind.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Again, if you've got that kind of magic to throw at a problem, there's bound to be a simpler option to deliver the holy water than freezing it into bullets ... not to mention one that won't evaporate instantly, if used on a flaming monster like a rushlight or balor.

[alhoon]

But that's exactly my point. To make it very expensive. Low level poor adventurers have to drill the bullets, fill them with holy water, close them again and suffer the penalty to hit rolls.

Also, do not underestimate the power of a container to give a +1d4 cold damage to missiles. It is forever.
This is NOT just to make holy ice. It's to give the extra damage to any type of musket/pistol bullet or even sling bullet.
Frost bullets would cost 8000 gp for 50 bullets that did +1d6 cold +1. And that's just 50 bullets.

The container gives a +1d4 For ever. Like: You give your 10 musketeers (all with gloves) 10 bullets. Shoot for extra cold damage. Repeat.

Fill your pouch again with normal bullets. Wait 1 minute. Give again the 20 bullets. Repeat.
I.e. in a single battle that takes no more than 10 mins the elite musketeers that have such a pouch would fire 200 extra cold shots.

Now for CL 3-4. Slings do 1d4 damage. A +1d4 cold damage is effectively doubling the damage done.

Who cares about +1 holy damage?

[JinnTolser]

Characters who use firearms are already handicapped enough in D&D, I think. If you're going to make it THAT expensive, then you might as well just disallow it.

[Stygian Inquirer]

Characters who use firearms are already handicapped enough in D&D, I think. If you're going to make it THAT expensive, then you might as well just disallow it.

Then again, they do have the bonus that only half of the base AC bonus from armour is applied against firearm bullets.

[vipera aspis]

wouldn't bullets or lead balls punch through metal armor? maybe even ignore lesser armor? maybe even counting as +2 for armor assault(DR wise)?

[Stygian Inquirer]

wouldn't bullets or lead balls punch through metal armor? maybe even ignore lesser armor? maybe even counting as +2 for armor assault(DR wise)?

That is why character's only add half of the AC for their armour is counted instead of the full thing so a character wearing full plate only gets +4 to his AC against bullets instead of +8. I can't remember which Ravenloft book it was in but it was also in the Masque of the Red Death book as I recall.

[JinnTolser]

I've never heard that rule before. I admit that I've been a little lax in reading all the books since I stopped running a game, but that's the first I've heard of it. Even so, reducing the AC by up to 4 is hardly compensation for poor damage (yes pistols are d10 but with no strength bonus it's still far less on average than most melee weapons), an Exotic Weapon proficiency, not being able to make a full attack with them (making them even more useless compared to melee weapons or standard longbows), and having to spend a long time reloading after every single shot.

I played a Black Powder Avenger once, and I had to carry 4 or 5 guns on me to even make it viable in a game with about half as much combat as standard D&D.

If you do find what book that rule is from that lets firearms ignore half the target's armor bonus, please let me know. But I still think that gunners need to be thrown a bone once in awhile. They're already worse-off than if they just used a crossbow, and that's very not-realistic.

[High Priest Mikhal]

Actually, in MotRD you can make full attacks with firearms--at least if they're double-action revolvers, repeater rifles, or semi-auto handguns. But yeah, the muzzle loaders of RL just don't realistically allow for multiple attacks in six seconds.

I always used the 2e rule: metal armor offers no protection. Padded, leather, studded leather, and hide had a -1 AC penalty. Magic armor added its enhancement bonus but was otherwise no better. Mithral and adamantine armor, because they're stronger than steel, offered full protection--as did dragonhide, given its origins. Natural armor was also fully functional (why do you think we invented the Elephant Gun?). This meant that a gun could easily pierce full plate and thus even commoners equipped with guns could inflict horrid casualties on legions of fully armored soldiers (just like in real life).