Montarri's Mess

[DeepShadow of FoS]

In another thread, I talk about the effect of the Bill Rule on Jacqueline Montarri. Here are just a few examples:

She demands only the youngest and most beautiful heads, because she's so vain, but then they age so fast that she needs to kill one a month at absolute minimum, or more like every two weeks. She's been around for 200 years, that's 2,400-4800 heads of the most young and beautiful women she can find. Oh, but she likes their skills and talents, too, so she's killed thousands upon thousands of the most beautiful young talents in Ravenloft for over two centuries, and no one has learned anything about her. A hat of disguise would allow her to wear heads much longer, if she cared to do so. That would reduce this list considerably, but then DM's would lose the pathos of having her show up with a different head each time.

She is the leader of Red Vardo traders, a group of thugs who are helping her look for her original head. How many of them know her secret? As a thief, she must know that each one she confides in is a liability--as the saying goes, three can keep a secret.... If she doesn't confide, how does she function as their leader when she cannot wear any head longer than a month? Again, get a hat of disguise and she can manage it fine, but without that, she would have to limit all interactions with her subordinates to within the same week, and then never speak to that person again. How do you run a business like that? OTOH, if she has a hat of disguise, why the concern for aging at all?

Her curse preserves heads physically, but not mentally, and there's no enchantment on the sword other than for chopping them clean off. So why are the heads in her basement self-aware and going mad, except to be the cause of someone's creep-out? This also then begs the question as to when they would remain conscious--are they conscious when she's wearing them? Obviously not, since she gains their skills, but doesn't switch personalities. So...they are conscious only when she takes them off, but are insensate while she is using them? How does that work?

Not to mention this last one just highlights the elephant in the room when it comes to Jacqueline: if she's so cursed, why is it everyone around her is suffering more than she is? She'd make more sense if she was the embodiment of someone else's curse, but no, she committed murder to obtain immortality and is cursed with...immortality, and a serious inconvenience that is still not a bad deal in exchange for immortality. From where I sit, she's basically a very odd sort of vampire. I get that she wants her original head back, but seriously, get a hat of disguise and that problem's barely an issue.

[alhoon]

To answer some of those

The way I see it:
Montary is cursed as in she's a force of evil. She corrupts and destroys. As you said, she's killing the most beautiful young women around. Let's say the prettiest 5% or so.
Her suffering is her self-obsession with beauty (she has to have young pretty heads) and her obsession with finding her real head. She's suffering cause of her own character. She doesn't revel in being practically immortal and able to change heads. The way I see it, She considers it her right that was stolen by the evil vistani.
She has a right to be immortal and young at the expense of people's lives... but she may die if the head is destroyed!
She has the right to wear different heads like she wears different shoes ... but the cruel vistani made her "shoes" grow old and ugly quickly!
All in all, she's 100% bonkers.

More or less like Ivan: There are worse things than having no taste. He doesn't see it that way.

So...they are conscious only when she takes them off, but are insensate while she is using them? How does that work?

The way you said: The heads are conscious when she cuts them off, and while they remain in their jars but not while she wears them. Or at least that's what I hope. To keep consciousness while Montari does bad, bad things with them would be worse.
She does pretty nasty things.

Skills:
Weeeeeell... she doesn't go for the skilled heads except when she needs to.
Which I actually don't go for 100%; I have her have a set of skills in the body that get "supplemented" with the new heads.
I.e. the way I use Montari is that she's get the skills (as in proficiencies) of the heads and possible spells. But she keeps her hit points and hit roll.

Aging heads tax:
Well, it's even trickier. According to "Sleep with Evil", Montarri tries to behead twins or sisters etc to have heads that she can wear for a time as they age when she needs to have similar appearance.

Finding heads:
Again, according to "sleep with evil" Montarri was in a physical relationship with a Darklord that was often hitting whole caravans stolen by the mists. Every couple of weeks to a month, Montari would drop by and pick up heads. And they were drugging women for her to carry and behead later in her villa.
She was keeping like a dozen heads in that place as spares to wear for her nights with her boyfriend. She even allowed him to choose which captive she would behead once in the book. Although... the girl was already dead when she got the head. I think.

knowledge:
Montarri (in sleep with evil) said she was close to unlocking how to safely travel the mists. So she probably gets knowledge (and skills) from head to head.

[Jimsolo]

In another thread, I talk about the effect of the Bill Rule on Jacqueline Montarri. Here are just a few examples:

She demands only the youngest and most beautiful heads, because she's so vain, but then they age so fast that she needs to kill one a month at absolute minimum, or more like every two weeks. She's been around for 200 years, that's 2,400-4800 heads of the most young and beautiful women she can find. Oh, but she likes their skills and talents, too, so she's killed thousands upon thousands of the most beautiful young talents in Ravenloft for over two centuries, and no one has learned anything about her. A hat of disguise would allow her to wear heads much longer, if she cared to do so. That would reduce this list considerably, but then DM's would lose the pathos of having her show up with a different head each time.

One assumes that she settles for the most attractive head available in a pinch. Usually when it comes to character bios, extreme statements are usually best taken as hyperbole. One also assumes she has moved around quite a bit.

She is the leader of Red Vardo traders, a group of thugs who are helping her look for her original head. How many of them know her secret? As a thief, she must know that each one she confides in is a liability--as the saying goes, three can keep a secret.... If she doesn't confide, how does she function as their leader when she cannot wear any head longer than a month? Again, get a hat of disguise and she can manage it fine, but without that, she would have to limit all interactions with her subordinates to within the same week, and then never speak to that person again. How do you run a business like that? OTOH, if she has a hat of disguise, why the concern for aging at all?

I assume she has one or two lieutenants who are 'in the know' who take the orders and distribute them. (I worked for a large corporation for several years, and while I knew who several of my bosses were, I couldn't have picked the CEO out of a lineup at any point. How many organized crime thugs have actually met the don or what have you? Probably relatively few).

Her curse preserves heads physically, but not mentally, and there's no enchantment on the sword other than for chopping them clean off. So why are the heads in her basement self-aware and going mad, except to be the cause of someone's creep-out? This also then begs the question as to when they would remain conscious--are they conscious when she's wearing them? Obviously not, since she gains their skills, but doesn't switch personalities. So...they are conscious only when she takes them off, but are insensate while she is using them? How does that work?

It works exactly as stated: they're conscious when she's not wearing them, and either not conscious or not in control (to them, it might be similar to a possession: aware of what's happening but unable to stop it) when she is. As to why they're going mad: wouldn't you? People go insane from bodily mutilation and loss of mobility in real life, and actually being decapitated would be so much worse. Add to that the imprisonment in some psycho bird's basement, with only a bunch of other loony heads for company, not to MENTION the invasion of one's brain by the same hussy that lopped your noggin off, and a little mental degeneration seems pretty apropos.

Not to mention this last one just highlights the elephant in the room when it comes to Jacqueline: if she's so cursed, why is it everyone around her is suffering more than she is? She'd make more sense if she was the embodiment of someone else's curse, but no, she committed murder to obtain immortality and is cursed with...immortality, and a serious inconvenience that is still not a bad deal in exchange for immortality. From where I sit, she's basically a very odd sort of vampire. I get that she wants her original head back, but seriously, get a hat of disguise and that problem's barely an issue.

It's a curse to her. It isn't supposed to be justice, it's supposed to be torment. Montarri is a true narcissist. It doesn't matter what everyone else sees, she'll know the truth, and that will eat at her. She will always suspect that people know even when she knows they couldn't know. The fact that she recognizes that she's being irrational will piss her off, drawing more attention to her and perpetuating the vicious cycle. Montarri isn't a rational, whole person. She's a deluded mess, consumed with her own neuroses, and the crux of her curse is that it's only really a curse because of her own selfish hangups.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

That being said, the sheer number of heads she's generated has to be baffling. Leftover heads would probably the hook I'd use to get some PCs on her tail.

[Zettaijin]

That being said, the sheer number of heads she's generated has to be baffling. Leftover heads would probably the hook I'd use to get some PCs on her tail.

Thanks for the idea! I just wrote up a small hook in my hook thread about one of the leftover heads falling into the hands of the copycat club's Mordenheim fanatic (see appropriate hook) who succeeds (to some extent) in grafting the head onto a new body only for it to escape to look for vengeance.

[DeepShadow of FoS]

As to why they're going mad: wouldn't you? People go insane from bodily mutilation and loss of mobility in real life, and actually being decapitated would be so much worse. Add to that the imprisonment in some psycho bird's basement, with only a bunch of other loony heads for company, not to MENTION the invasion of one's brain by the same hussy that lopped your noggin off, and a little mental degeneration seems pretty apropos.

To be clear, I wasn't doubting that, if they were conscious, they would go mad. That part makes perfect sense. I was doubting that they would be conscious. There seems no need for it, and there's no mention of them being conscious except when talking about her discards.

[Jimsolo]

As to why they're going mad: wouldn't you? People go insane from bodily mutilation and loss of mobility in real life, and actually being decapitated would be so much worse. Add to that the imprisonment in some psycho bird's basement, with only a bunch of other loony heads for company, not to MENTION the invasion of one's brain by the same hussy that lopped your noggin off, and a little mental degeneration seems pretty apropos.

To be clear, I wasn't doubting that, if they were conscious, they would go mad. That part makes perfect sense. I was doubting that they would be conscious. There seems no need for it, and there's no mention of them being conscious except when talking about her discards.

I see what you're driving at.

I think it really drives home how messed up she is. (And makes for some really good possibilities--maybe a story could necessitate stealing a head from Jackie to investigate it.) If the heads were just preserved, she really is just a screwy kind of vampire. But conscious, they make kick her monstrousness up to the next level.

[Dark Angel]

Without directly quoting which post this is referencing (the comments and posts are kind of intertwined at this point), he is something I have considered: If she needs to keep up appearances for her organization, she likely has a set type to do so. If her people expect to see her as a blonde woman, she could keep several blonde women's heads specifically for that purpose. With makeup (and assuming the areas are never brightly lit) she could easily disguise the little imperfections that would reveal this is not the same person. If she doesn't have a trusted lieutenant or two, she could have set up some type of thieves cant code system to properly identify herself to those in her employ. Granted the biggest flaw in this system is the massive number of women she 'consumes' over the course of time. Likely she may be the single biggest population depleter in the history of Ravenloft (Drakov may be her only competition, but she relies less on underlings than he does).

On the point of a hat of disguise, it would work and be effective for that purpose to reduce the number of victims and allow her to avoid the physical manifestations of her curse. Like Deepshadow points out, she is vain. Very vain. Vain to the point of insanity and could not be satisfied with a magical illusion effect (knowing what she really looks like underneath). She could have tried that years ago and found the whole thing as much of a lie as using makeup to cover the wrinkles and blemishes of 'older' heads. Knowing it's a lie would be enough for her not to. Now this is me as the metagamer player right now (and I know she was a normal human prior to her curse), she could take a half elven woman's head and get several more days out of it (sorry I just called a woman's head "it"). If she could find a suitable elven woman's head, she may be able to get months out of it before it becomes an issue of aging out. But that may be too extreme for her. Again, she may want to have that contingency for her correspondence with the Red Vardo Traders.

[The Lesser Evil]

The needing to kill thousands of people thing is probably a legit complaint as Barovia (and Ravenloft in general) doesn't really have the population to support it. She would've killed the entire population worth of several communities (and even a few domains).

Regarding hats of disguise, they're actually rather shoddy for any sort of extended interactions like a trade leader might have to do. Anybody you touch gets a fairly easy, almost certain to be made Will save. (Or, in 5e, just touching somebody will automatically give you away.)

[alhoon]

The needing to kill thousands of people thing is probably a legit complaint as Barovia (and Ravenloft in general) doesn't really have the population to support it. She would've killed the entire population worth of several communities (and even a few domains).

As of that, I would like to say again that according with Ravenloft novel "sleep with evil" there was a whole domain in the "crossroads" of the mists that was seeing dozens of mist-ducted women each month that Montarri's lover was capturing for her to choose heads.

[Zettaijin]

The needing to kill thousands of people thing is probably a legit complaint as Barovia (and Ravenloft in general) doesn't really have the population to support it. She would've killed the entire population worth of several communities (and even a few domains).

As of that, I would like to say again that according with Ravenloft novel "sleep with evil" there was a whole domain in the "crossroads" of the mists that was seeing dozens of mist-ducted women each month that Montarri's lover was capturing for her to choose heads.

Add to this the OTHER dangers that await the common folks of the land such as the undead, werebeasts, war, everyday cruelty from rulers and the insane (be they scientists or murderers) and most of the demiplane will quickly be depopulated. But at this point this is a case of beating a dead horse.

The predators are too hungry and too plentiful.

[alhoon]

Well, there is practically no war though. By reducing infant mortality somewhat along with fewer and less severe disease epidemics (Crimson death killed like 20% of Darkon while the black plague would have killed easily half), you have people to spare.
Oh, and I increase the size\population of the domains.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I've barely used her, but if I did, I think I'd just tweak the numbers to be more manageable. The core concept is great. It's the just standard "where are all the dead bodies?" problem but moreso due to poorly thought out numbers. Keep the concept. Lose the numbers.

[alhoon]

I think most of us delay the aging of the heads considerably.

[Dark Angel]

I think most of us delay the aging of the heads considerably.

Or just move her up in the timeline (yes, I know she has had quite a history with Madame Eva) and lose that connection, but then she loses a lot of her backstory.

Then again, she is immortal and her story can remain the same with a minor tweak or two. Sticking her into some form of prison like a jail cell (not very likely), a natural one (a cave in or rock slide), or something mystical would allow you to keep her the way she is and allow thousands of young women to live their lives with her preying upon them. When the body count rises, then the players get involved. She could have recently set up the Red Vardo Traders to help facilitate her mission to find her head and ones to replace in the meantime. Perhaps some older records reference a series of women's bodies found without their heads and either didn't pan out or forced her to leave the area (and into the aforementioned prison situation). Many investigators may be looking for a male serial killer instead of an attractive woman.

[Suvie]

Now this is me as the metagamer player right now (and I know she was a normal human prior to her curse), she could take a half elven woman's head and get several more days out of it (sorry I just called a woman's head "it"). If she could find a suitable elven woman's head, she may be able to get months out of it before it becomes an issue of aging out.

Not according to the RAW. She can only use female human heads. Maybe Boritsi or Hiregaard heads would do this for her, because they are fully human?

Regarding the basement o heads, I don't think that's the right type of horror. Like they say, one is a victim, a hundred is a statistic. Putting them all in a huge group like that just dehumanizes them more. Give the PC's one head to deal with, have her slowly losing her mind, and they can't stop it.

Or can they? If the heads are conscious, can they be healed? Would a regenerate spell grow a new body for one of them? Or a Heal spell? Now I've got an image of putting a ring of regen in a nose piercing...nah...but what about the neck slot? Put a ring of regeneration on a hand of the mage, put it around her neck, and she grows back...???

And yes, she'd be out of her mind, but restoration ought to fix that. Or a heal spell might fix both!