What Darklords Should Go?

[Pale]

I've always thought Yagno had solid roots in the system - he might not be a "first-choice domain" for adventure, but I thought he was good color. "Gothic" doesn't always do "jungle" well, but he worked for me - same with Markov and Croc.

I'm not a fan of Diamabel, but I think his setting (not his character) fills an important role in the Amber Wastes that Har'Akir and Sebua cannot. I'd like to keep the themes of his domain, but I don't like his current form.

Vecna and Kas are gone, right? If not, I'd eliminate that entire Cluster. I like earlier incarnations of Vecna, and Vecna Lives! was kind of a neat module (an Eye Golem?), but they're way, way, way too High Fantasy for my tastes. And, really, ever since Vecna moved beyond Lich and into Demigodhood and beyond, I've found the whole thing distasteful.

Arijani and Inajira are two different beings, right?

I don't recall who lead the charge, but I really liked the Paridon/Timor/Nosos cluster that showed up in a netbook or thread here.

Did I'Cath ever get detailed anywhere? I've always thought that it really came up short on description.

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

We were doing a disccussion on how to fix I'cath here (http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/foru ... c&start=15) if you scroll down and just to tell you it's a long discussion.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

King Croc's concept is relatively sound for the purposes, but his immortality (Another croc just becomes him) and the lack of any and all threats in his domain take away a lot of the drama. With a much larger domain it would be easier to hide cells of Hairless Apes outside Croc's sphere or awareness. Or serpents, for that matter.

That need for drama is one reason I think making some of the sentient beasts into shapechangers would be interesting: if they're able to pass for humanoids, then their motives, and societies by extension, become more relevant. Rather than sticking an isolated nation of "naked apes" into the domain -- something that smacks of belated tokenism at best, and would entail a mountain of research to get right -- it could be more interesting to set aside the IRL-Cultures-In-Drag motif of existing domains, and derive the habits of "natives" from animal behavior, instead.

As for Croc's curse, I have to wonder if he's less of a darklord, in truth, than he's an embodied curse on all the other animals. Remember: the domain's origin-story depicts the animals voluntarily handing over all their own strengths to Crocodile, relying on him to eliminate the hairless ape threat which they didn't have the courage to face. What if it's not him the domain was created to punish, for his domineering ways and his gluttony -- which, after all, is simply Crocodile doing what large male crocodiles do -- but the rest of the Wildlands' animals, being punished for their toadying cowardice...?

[Pale]

We were doing a disccussion on how to fix I'cath here (http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/foru ... c&start=15) if you scroll down and just to tell you it's a long discussion.

Thank you!

(Gah, confused - was thinking of Rokushima Taiyoo, but I'cath is light too)

[Lady Victor]

My added thanks for the link to the I'Cath discussion. I've always wanted to pull my players into the land that Men Fear Most but they tend to tread heavily... they either destroy everything or die trying much of the time. <Sigh> So added dimension to the domain will be most welcome.

I notice nobody has mentioned the worthless ghost that runs Mordent as a DL primed for eviction. I'd like to nominate him. Mordent is another of those domains that my players just never seem to travel in, or through, or whatever.

While it's not totally the same topic, I would like to pose a question related to our current discussion:

How many of you have developed new domains and/or new darklords simply because the existing materials weren't proving challenging/evil/horrifying/difficult/interesting/entertaining/original enough to keep your campaign in Ravenloft viable?

Or if not a *NEW* NPC Baddie, have you perpetrated significant alteration or embellishment of a pre-existing DL to similar ends?

Just curious as to which of the existing darklords have had their lives embellished the most, or their history rewritten the most often, because this would certainly point to the need for them to exit stage left, sans requiem.

Ciao -
the Lady

[brilliantlight]

As for Croc's curse, I have to wonder if he's less of a darklord, in truth, than he's an embodied curse on all the other animals. Remember: the domain's origin-story depicts the animals voluntarily handing over all their own strengths to Crocodile, relying on him to eliminate the hairless ape threat which they didn't have the courage to face. What if it's not him the domain was created to punish, for his domineering ways and his gluttony -- which, after all, is simply Crocodile doing what large male crocodiles do -- but the rest of the Wildlands' animals, being punished for their toadying cowardice...?

An interesting and unique idea that makes sense to me. This would explain why it wasn't King Croc just inhabiting another body when he dies but simply a new croc taking over. Usually it is the soul of a dark lord taking over another body but it isn't true in this case where it says one of the young crocs would proclaim himself the new King Croc.

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

I notice nobody has mentioned the worthless ghost that runs Mordent as a DL primed for eviction. I'd like to nominate him. Mordent is another of those domains that my players just never seem to travel in, or through, or whatever.
Ciao -
the Lady

I'll give the Gazetter credit for fleshing Wilfred's post ghostly schemes, but I think a re-mod of his past could work by having him be a cruel, egotistical businessman noble who practically owned the domain of Mordent with the brutal murder of his wife and daughter as the thing that triggered this mists just as they killed him in revenge.

As Darklord he is tied to the house, but still runs his businesses and can temporarily make himself appear human for a short time to keep from blowing his cover. It's just that the ghosts of those he hurt will continue to haunt and destroy him to this day. Any ghost that wasn't killed by him can be captured and controled by him.

[Strahdsbuddy]

I think it is important to seperate Darklord and Domain when we are talking about replacing things. I know the two are inherently linked, but players don't always have to be beaten over the head with the most powerful NPC around. You can have a lot of fun in Mordent or Barovia or Darkon and never ever run into the Darklord. When someone says "My players don't spend a lot of time in" a certain domain, you can't really blame THEM for that, can you? And there is no hard, fast rule that says you need to send them to every domain. My players don't spend a lot fo time in Necropoils....

[Strahdsbuddy]

As for Croc's curse, I have to wonder if he's less of a darklord, in truth, than he's an embodied curse on all the other animals. Remember: the domain's origin-story depicts the animals voluntarily handing over all their own strengths to Crocodile, relying on him to eliminate the hairless ape threat which they didn't have the courage to face. What if it's not him the domain was created to punish, for his domineering ways and his gluttony -- which, after all, is simply Crocodile doing what large male crocodiles do -- but the rest of the Wildlands' animals, being punished for their toadying cowardice...?

This is an excellent point, and makes me wonder if there are any other domains that are sort of "Darklord-less". In a "weekend in hell" type of story, a Darklord is rather important. But in an overall campaign, The hard, fast 'rules' of the setting can be put aside for the purpose of a better game.

Since the entire concept of the Wildlands is steeped in what is essentially a parable, it doesn't fit the traditional definition of a domain. As opposed to most others, it seems to have been built with a macro-view emphasizing the land itself. I believe this makes it unique.

I must admit i had never given the Wildlands a second thought before yesterday, save to work it into my New Core, but the potential is there for a lot! I say King Croc stays! I also think a domain on its border is important, be it Sri Raji or the Mayan domain from BoS (can't remember the name). This way, King Croc has a sort of shadowy presense even on the imagination of his hated enemy, the hairless ape. The story of the animals giving their power away could be taught to Rajan children as a warning; or legends of a huge reptile that lives deep in the jungle and devours all in its path....easily mistaken for a dragon!

[Rotipher of the FoS]

We already have precedent for a domain being "darklordless" in Gwydion, who has never been physically present in his own domain. Perhaps the original King Croc's spirit still hangs around, melded into the fabric of the Wildlands, and the terrible droughts and seasonal storms which beset his old domain are his fault? That would place King Croc I in a similar position to Shinpi Haki as well, impotently watching other crocodiles take possession of the power and territory he still craves. His successors, in turn, are imbued with his former strength to make him jealous, as well as to punish the other animals' spinelessness.

Rather than mundane animals, all the Wildlands' creatures might have originated as sentient animal-spirits, from the animistic Spirit World of a homebrew cosmology. The way they handed over their powers to King Crocodile I could've been a betrayal of their roles as the guardians of their cosmology's mundane animals, so when the Dark Powers stepped in to punish their offenses and the first Croc's, these spirits were cursed to live as mundane beasts themselves, stripped of the powers they'd so heedlessly given away.

[brilliantlight]

I notice nobody has mentioned the worthless ghost that runs Mordent as a DL primed for eviction. I'd like to nominate him. Mordent is another of those domains that my players just never seem to travel in, or through, or whatever.
Ciao -
the Lady

I'll give the Gazetter credit for fleshing Wilfred's post ghostly schemes, but I think a re-mod of his past could work by having him be a cruel, egotistical businessman noble who practically owned the domain of Mordent with the brutal murder of his wife and daughter as the thing that triggered this mists just as they killed him in revenge.

As Darklord he is tied to the house, but still runs his businesses and can temporarily make himself appear human for a short time to keep from blowing his cover. It's just that the ghosts of those he hurt will continue to haunt and destroy him to this day. Any ghost that wasn't killed by him can be captured and controled by him.

I actually rather like Mordent probably because it is full of ghosts. Ghosts are among the more interesting undead because you usually have to figure out why they returned to put them permanently at rest.

[Strahdsbuddy]

Regarding Gwydion:

That's a perfect example, Roti, thank you. It is also a great example of how a domain doesn't NEED a darklord to be great. The Shadow Rift works fine without the giant Shadow Demon romping all over the place, and there are plenty of major NPCs to keep it rolling along. And, in a very technical sense, the DP didn't relaly create Arak/Shadow Rift, the fey did when they followed the Erlking into the gate. Being the 3rd Core domain to form, it can act as a clue to how the DP were operating at the time, possibly not at their full strength or power. Again, that's another thread.

Gwydion DOES have a major flaw as a darklord, however, and it is one he shares with beings like Arijani, Eason (well half of him) and a few others already mentioned: They are beings of pure evil, but not beings that really go against their nature. And there is no room for redemption. The HUMAN darklords are more interesting because the path of their ruin is so real. Creatures that just START bad are poor darklord choices, but i see the value of having a boogey-man type for certain situations.

[Ail]

I notice nobody has mentioned the worthless ghost that runs Mordent as a DL primed for eviction. I'd like to nominate him. Mordent is another of those domains that my players just never seem to travel in, or through, or whatever.
Ciao -
the Lady

I'll give the Gazetter credit for fleshing Wilfred's post ghostly schemes, but I think a re-mod of his past could work by having him be a cruel, egotistical businessman noble who practically owned the domain of Mordent with the brutal murder of his wife and daughter as the thing that triggered this mists just as they killed him in revenge.

As Darklord he is tied to the house, but still runs his businesses and can temporarily make himself appear human for a short time to keep from blowing his cover. It's just that the ghosts of those he hurt will continue to haunt and destroy him to this day. Any ghost that wasn't killed by him can be captured and controled by him.

I actually rather like Mordent probably because it is full of ghosts. Ghosts are among the more interesting undead because you usually have to figure out why they returned to put them permanently at rest.

I love Mordent too. It's almost like the stereotypical place for a gothic tale... at least when I think of the early gothic literature.

[ewancummins]

I love, love, love Mordent. It's all Gothic, all the time. I like the darklord, too.

[brilliantlight]

I'll give the Gazetter credit for fleshing Wilfred's post ghostly schemes, but I think a re-mod of his past could work by having him be a cruel, egotistical businessman noble who practically owned the domain of Mordent with the brutal murder of his wife and daughter as the thing that triggered this mists just as they killed him in revenge.

As Darklord he is tied to the house, but still runs his businesses and can temporarily make himself appear human for a short time to keep from blowing his cover. It's just that the ghosts of those he hurt will continue to haunt and destroy him to this day. Any ghost that wasn't killed by him can be captured and controled by him.

I actually rather like Mordent probably because it is full of ghosts. Ghosts are among the more interesting undead because you usually have to figure out why they returned to put them permanently at rest.

I love Mordent too. It's almost like the stereotypical place for a gothic tale... at least when I think of the early gothic literature.

Agreed it definitely that kind of feel to it.