4Edition. Do you like it?

[Mortavius]

NONE FOR YOU!

[alhoon]

Speaking of my 4th edition campaign, I agree that the paragon levels need some more light shine on to them. I found the DMG lacking somewhat in detailing them. It's good the new DMG expands to them. It's bad that I can't find it in order to buy it though.

Anyway, I was thinking about the problem 4E seems to have with versatility and decided, heck, why not ADD some versatility in there?

It breaks down to this:
Every paragon character has 4 per encounter powers and (up to 19th level) 3 daily powers. Also he/she can use 2 item daily powers +1/every two encounters.

So for versatility AND balance there are a few options:
- Bonus encounter powers. Something like the encounter powers given from feats. Because let's face it. A +2 to damage with radiant spells once per encounter as a minor action isn't going to break the vault. Or a +1 to will until the start of your next turn as a free action.
So why bother with so weak encounter powers? Just to increase the list on the character sheet?
No. In my experience they add a level of accomplishment, beyond exp or loot.
Think of it, after liberating the church of the Godess of Light from the undead that occupied it, the cleric of the party performs a hallowing ritual to bring back the grace of the Godess to the place. At the end of the ritual, as he kisses the hand of the new statue, light from the window shones on him... he gets a new power called "Gratitude of Light" that allows him once per encounter to add a +1 to damage with radiant spells.
Now, the character is someone special, touched in a minor way by the Godess herself.

- Replacement powers: No big invention here. It's already in the game. Every so often a character can change a lower level power with a new one of higher level.
I would suggest that quests would unlock special replacements.
Example: PC of 10th level fighter feels none of the suggested 1st level encounter powers in the book(s) are good enough for his character. Perhaps he has 7th level powers that do the same thing and wants something else. Also he doesn't want to wait up to 13th level in order to change the 1st level power with a 13th level one.
This works best for rare weapons. What if our fighter wants to have a special kick with his throwing axe but doesn't want to sacrifice his higher level powers?
Instead of just saying "Ok! OK! Stop complaining! I'll give you a handaxe power replacement next level!" the DM informs him that the "warriors of the Cloudtop mountain" have a special technique that they're willing to teach to the worthy. The party travels there performs the test-quest and voila! The character can drop the 1st level power for another 1st level power. The power is called "Cloudtop basic technique" and also makes the character feel special.
As a note, after fulfilling a quest even at 10th level to exchange a 1st level power with a 7th level power doesn't seem so terrible to me.

- Exchange powers: Like the wizard with the tome of knowledge feature. After completing a quest, the character is given special training or something but doesn't exchange a power for a new one.
Instead he picks a special power that he can use in place of another unspent encounter power.
I.e. a Paragon character should have 4 per encounter powers available in each encounter, but that DOESN'T mean he has to know just 4 powers.
For balancing, make sure this substitution per encounter power is useful in certain situations.
A spell that ignores phasing (i.e is useful only against very few monsters) or "come and get it" powers spring to mind. In about 50% of the encounters I had in 4th edition, "come and get it" wasn't used. So in effect the multiclassed Ranger/fighter was fighting with 3 per encounter powers instead of 4.

- At will powers: Why just 2 from start to end? An extra at will power at paragon and another extra at epic would certainly be welcome.

[MadStepDad]

Hey, I ran a 4E campaign... don't I get anything?

And props to alhoon for starting this thread.

[Mortavius]

- At will powers: Why just 2 from start to end? An extra at will power at paragon and another extra at epic would certainly be welcome.

One thing to mention about this idea Alhoon (that you may not be aware of) is that the Psion, in PHB3, does indeed have more at-wills. The trade off is, they don't have encounter powers. Instead, they can augment their at-wills with points, and they still have dailies like other classes.

[alhoon]

You're kidding me?! I thought I would never see that before 5th edition.

For whatever shortcomings the Funbase is accusing WotC, they are trying to give people tools and opportunities while making profit. As for the money grabbing, well, they have to look good on their masters' charts or the D&D line will be canceled.

Do you know why I'm angry at them right now?

Because I can't buy the PHB3! If they were available at DrivethruRPG, it would be already downloading in my computer. Now? Well, I have to order it through Amazon, wait 20 days and make a 30 mins trip to get it. The whole deal (taxi included) would cost me twice as much as it would if I got it on the net. And then I would be stuck with a book that I couldn't carry in a USB stick wherever I wanted.


NOTE: Mortavius, it's alhoon, not Alhoon. Undead mind flayer arcanist.

[Kaitou Kage]

Because I can't buy the PHB3! If they were available at DrivethruRPG, it would be already downloading in my computer. Now? Well, I have to order it through Amazon, wait 20 days and make a 30 mins trip to get it. The whole deal (taxi included) would cost me twice as much as it would if I got it on the net. And then I would be stuck with a book that I couldn't carry in a USB stick wherever I wanted.

There's also the fact that PHB3 isn't actually out yet The Psion class and a few other select excerpts are only available to D&D Insider subscribers at the present time.

[alhoon]

So... that's why I can't see it in my local stores.

And although I could do it in the past, I CAN'T subscribe to DDI! They don't accept my card. Does anyone know the customer support link?

[HuManBing]

There's a PHB3? Gosh.

What classes does it have?

[Mortavius]

So far all we know is that it has the Psionic power source, and going along with that are the classes of the Monk and Psion, and two other unnamed Psionic classes. Also, the book cover says it has Divine, Primal, and Psionic heroes.

It also has four new races, but all we know for sure in the book is the Githzerai and the Wilden (sort of a plant thing, IIRC). The Githyanki will NOT be in it (Wizards wants to keep them in a villian capacity). Although given that the cover art has a Minotaur on it, I would bet that will be a race as well.

[Jester of the FoS]

DDI takes PayPal now.

The psion works by having power points (like other versions of the class have had) which it uses to augment at-will powers to make them encounter powers. So, in theory, it has the same number of powers, but has a little more flexibility.
I'm unsure if they're still limited to 2 at-wills per character though.

[Dion of the Fraternity]

It also has four new races, but all we know for sure in the book is the Githzerai and the Wilden (sort of a plant thing, IIRC).

The wilden are now thought to be the killoren from 3e's "Races of the Wild." Which is okay, considering that they have this whole "life aspect/death aspect" going for them. But I heard from somewhere (not sure what source exactly) that 4e'll augment them more to incorporate the four seasons into them.

[Mortavius]

The Psion starts off with 2 at-wills but as they go up in level they get more at-wills to use, because they don't ever get encounter powers.

One thing I thought was cool was how when they power up their at-wills with points it's not just a more powerful version of the original; often the power takes on new effects that it doesn't have previous. And putting 2 points into an at-will (the max) generates a different effect than just putting in 1 point. So the Psion has a lot flexibility to choose what he or she needs and when.

[Jester of the FoS]

It's the kind of difference in the classes I'd have like to have seen since day one.
A class with heavy at-wills would work so well as a fighter. Instead we get eighteen classes that are all pretty much the same and finally see some variety with the monk and psion.

[alhoon]

It's the kind of difference in the classes I'd have like to have seen since day one.
A class with heavy at-wills would work so well as a fighter. Instead we get eighteen classes that are all pretty much the same and finally see some variety with the monk and psion.

My thoughts exactly.

At least Jester, we can felt reassured that they got their lesson from this and 5E will have more variation.

[Jester of the FoS]

Their reasoning is that after proving the stability of the system they feel comfortably monkeying with it.
But that's what playtesting is for and just further suggests they should have kept the lid on 4e for another year to wrinkle that out.