Technology and culture in your campaigns

[Ail]

No one mentioned the Vatican yet, who today still has 16th century pikemen (well, not exactly, more like halberdiers ) as their official guard?
I mean, the Pontifican Swiss Guard still dresses in the style and carries weapons of the 16th century, despite also being allowed to use contemporary firearms.

[Agamemnon]

No one mentioned the Vatican yet, who today still has 16th century pikemen (well, not exactly, more like halberdiers ) as their official guard?
I mean, the Pontifican Swiss Guard still dresses in the style and carries weapons of the 16th century, despite also being allowed to use contemporary firearms.

Ah, but the Vatican is a very special case, itself being an anachronism like the Swiss guard that protects it. They are mostly a ceremonial honour guard, like the cuirassiers of the Queen of England. Not to say that they wouldn't cut an assassin down, if they ever got the chance, but there is mostly never a call for it.

Around St. Peter's Square there are many carabinieri with sub-machine guns, and in the Vatican itself there are armed (with pistols, that is), plain-clothes bodyguards. So the Pope isn't solely protected by 16th centure Swiss pikemen, far from it.

Cheers.

[ewancummins]

It seems to me that a lot of the 'Victorian' stuff is really just fashions in clothing. We don't see railways, telegraph lines, revolvers, repeating rifles, etc. I don't see much canon evidence for an 'Industrial Revolution' civilization in the Core, and Paridon seems way too small and resource poor to be anything like a powerhouse of industry.

Paridon may use old fashioned arms and armor because it can no longer afford to produce sizeable quantities of guns, powder, and shot. After all, they must be devoting a lot of energy and ingenuity into staving off mass starvation! I imagine that some primitive pot-metal guns will be made by neighborhood artisans and criminal 'ironmongers', but I'd expect only the wealthy could afford decent firearms. The city's economy must be all kinds of messed up from losing the farmlands and being semi-isolated by the mists.

[Agamemnon]

It seems to me that a lot of the 'Victorian' stuff is really just fashions in clothing.

Yes, and bizarrely enough, that is what annoys me the most, if you'll remember from my first posts.
I have no idea why, but those bowlers and three-piece-suits really get my goat. Not to mention Young Master Timothy's Texan tie, for that Southern Gothic feel, or his father's Civil War uniform.
Richemulot is even worse. Jaqueline Renier is actually wearing roaring '20s flapper dress. I can almost hear the swing band in the background and smell the tub gin.

We don't see railways, telegraph lines, revolvers, repeating rifles, etc. I don't see much canon evidence for an 'Industrial Revolution' civilization in the Core, and Paridon seems way too small and resource poor to be anything like a powerhouse of industry.

Quite true, regarding the weaponry, anyway. In Nosos there are references to Industrial tech, however, and in Children of the Night: Ghosts there are references to Victorian-style factories, complete with child labour.

In Chilling Tales, there are references to a cooking oil plant in Borca that even seem to have mass produced bottles with labels on them for the oil. Same adventure also has a candle factory (though that could conceivably be run with more primitive methods) and a cloth manufacturer. I dont quite know what to make of it, though, other than the art represents the surroundings and NPCs as very modern. Maybe not Victorian, but definitely early 19th century.

And the old domain of Timor, before it got squashed together with Paridon, had a surface culture very similar to Paridon (probably why they got hooked up in a cluster); this culture has very advanced sewers and machines that automated many processes, mainly in the sewers, by the way, and gave off an almost subliminal hum. Old Timor seemed very advanced, perhaps more so than Paridon.

Paridon may use old fashioned arms and armor because it can no longer afford to produce sizable quantities of guns, powder, and shot. After all, they must be devoting a lot of energy and ingenuity into staving off mass starvation! I imagine that some primitive pot-metal guns will be made by neighborhood artisans and criminal 'ironmongers', but I'd expect only the wealthy could afford decent firearms. The city's economy must be all kinds of messed up from losing the farmlands and being semi-isolated by the mists.

All very valid arguments. All the same, I still prefer having no higher cultures than roughly early 17th century (and probably earlier than that mostly; I am very fond of medieval romance), which allows for swashbuckling, ballroom dances and masked balls, but not newspapers, bowlers and loveable Cockneys going "Blimey, guvnor!"

Cheers.

[ewancummins]

Factories go back a long ways, you know- same thing with steam power. The Roman Empire had both, although their factories used slaves instead of complex machinery and their use of steam power was restricted to Hero's gimmicks.

My Nosos owes a bit to Rome.

If you don't like clothing that resembles something from the 19th century, don't use it.



I kind of like the idea of a 'Gaslight/Victoriana with mail and polearms' setting. That's my Paridon.

[Agamemnon]

Factories go back a long ways, you know- same thing with steam power.

Oh, yes, I know. The Romans used a tiny little steam engine to open the miniature gates of a puppet show; I guess it never occurred to them to use it for anything more practical.
As for the factories, I tried to qualify that these were more modern-style factories with machines and automated looms and such like, except for the candle factory, which could conceivably be very primitive, as I wrote. The cooking oil plant had mass produced oil bottles with labels on them; that sounds a bit too modern for my taste in Ravenloft.

My Nosos owes a bit to Rome.

That could work, if one removed the coal plants and the modern saw mills.

If you don't like clothing that resembles something from the 19th century, don't use it.

And indeed I don't; I haven't, ever. It's not like there's a Ravenloft game police busting down my door, if I don't use the setting as written. If I ever get to use Jaqueline Renier for anything, she'll be wearing an Elizabethan ball dress, not a knee-length black flapper dress. She'll still be hot, of course.

I kind of like the idea of a 'Gaslight/Victoriana with mail and polearms' setting. That's my Paridon.

"Blimey, guvnor, where're you off to, all dressed up in your burnished mail and with your pike? Goin' off to catch the Ripper, are you? Well, good luck to you, squire, and 'ave a good one. And watch out for them street urchins in the Chapel, guvnor. They'll rob you blind, they will!"

Okay, okay, I'll stop with the fake Merry Olde England Speak.

So many amusing images just flooded my brain. Maybe it isn't half-bad with a Victorian-inspired realm with Renaissance weapon and armour tech, after all. It's an amusing image at any rate. It's probably not for me, but I can see why some people would like it. It has a certain China Miéville ambiance to it.

Have you ever tried RunePunk? It's a Steampunk fantasy setting taking place in a giant metropolis with lots of China Miéville and Victorian flavour. I generally don't care much for such settings, but I hear it's really good.

Cheers.

[ewancummins]

I intensely dislike Mieville as a writer of self-important I 'message' fiction, and yet I really like his quirky world-building. He can't seem to refrain from putting in a lot of stuff reflecting his outmoded Marxist kookiness, which tends to detract from my pleasure as a reader. I don't give a damn about most of his characters, but Bas-Lag is a really great setting. YMMV.

My Nosos will have steam power, coal, and Roman-inspired goodness! This aint Earth, darn it. There is no need to feel constrained by Earth history- Ravenloft is not Earth.

[Agamemnon]

I intensely dislike Mieville as a writer of self-important I 'message' fiction, and yet I really like his quirky world-building. He can't seem to refrain from putting in a lot of stuff reflecting his outmoded Marxist kookiness, which tends to detract from my pleasure as a reader. I don't give a damn about most of his characters, but Bas-Lag is a really great setting. YMMV.

It may vary, but it doesn't. I feel the same about Miéville's "preachiness." Many of his short stories aren't recognizably socialist, though, but unfortunately his New Crobuzon stories are. I liked the idea of the Remade.

My Nosos will have steam power, coal, and Roman-inspired goodness! This aint Earth, darn it. There is no need to feel constrained by Earth history- Ravenloft is not Earth.

Oh, really? Well, all right, go ahead. Seriously, when I said that it could work without the coal and saw mills, I meant in my campaign. I really don't have any say over what you do in yours.

Steam, coal and Roman goodness... You know, I almost have you pegged for a GURPS Infinite Worlds player. It sounds like something that would come up in that setting. I can't remember what it's called, but there was a world, where the Romans survived until 1839 (or thereabouts) and had steam and firearms, and were engaged in a war with China for world supremacy. Or something like that. That might be right up your alley.

Ta ta.

[ewancummins]

I intensely dislike Mieville as a writer of self-important I 'message' fiction, and yet I really like his quirky world-building. He can't seem to refrain from putting in a lot of stuff reflecting his outmoded Marxist kookiness, which tends to detract from my pleasure as a reader. I don't give a damn about most of his characters, but Bas-Lag is a really great setting. YMMV.

It may vary, but it doesn't. I feel the same about Miéville's "preachiness." Many of his short stories aren't recognizably socialist, though, but unfortunately his New Crobuzon stories are. I liked the idea of the Remade.

My Nosos will have steam power, coal, and Roman-inspired goodness! This aint Earth, darn it. There is no need to feel constrained by Earth history- Ravenloft is not Earth.

Oh, really? Well, all right, go ahead. Seriously, when I said that it could work without the coal and saw mills, I meant in my campaign. I really don't have any say over what you do in yours.

Steam, coal and Roman goodness... You know, I almost have you pegged for a GURPS Infinite Worlds player. It sounds like something that would come up in that setting. I can't remember what it's called, but there was a world, where the Romans survived until 1839 (or thereabouts) and had steam and firearms, and were engaged in a war with China for world supremacy. Or something like that. That might be right up your alley.

Ta ta.

Roma Aeterna, yes. I like GURPS IW, but I don't play it/run it- yet.

[The Giamarga]

This reminds me of the "pick any two GURPS supplements and combine them to get a fun setting" thread on ENWorld. Ravenloft was kind of built this way from the very beginning as someone noted upthread: It started as Dracula & Frankenstein meets D&D and later added other horror stories to the big patchwork setting.

[whalejudge]

I like the hodgepodge setting, personally.

[High Priest Mikhal]

I've always looked at the tech in Ravenloft from its RL inspiration; an era might know about certain principles of physics or have the ability to make something we'd associate with much later ones, but keep in mind technologies developed out of necessity. Why go to all the trouble and expense of developing a mechanical solution when you have plenty of disposable bodies to do the work for a pittance? Or advancing an existing technology when there's no perceived reason to?

Ironically it's Falkovnia that shows the most necessity, and thus motivation, in terms of scientific research of new technologies and inventions. Drakov's biases aside, some of those "war machines built on shaky mechanical premises" that S wrote about in the Gaz could easily be the same machines Da Vinci designed but never built. Not that actual working models will do the Hawk any good in Ravenloft.

[ewancummins]

I like the hodgepodge setting, personally.

I like the variety of Ravenloft, but I sometimes find the canon presentation of the 'Core' to be too 'artificial' or 'cut-and-paste' for my tastes.

I make an effort to smooth over glaring differences, and to establish connections between various lands and peoples, etc. I tend to expand on domain histories to provide greater depth.

I am a fan of the AD&D 2nd Ed Domains of Dread hardback, as well as the 3E Gaz series- although my version of Ravenloft has significant differences from both, especially the Gazetteers.

[DocBeard]

Personally, I think the psuedo-Victoriana is no more out of place than Erberron's steamtech references. It makes a neat change from the standard D&D timeline without being impossible to avoid.

[whalejudge]

I like the hodgepodge setting, personally.

I like the variety of Ravenloft, but I sometimes find the canon presentation of the 'Core' to be too 'artificial' or 'cut-and-paste' for my tastes.

I make an effort to smooth over glaring differences, and to establish connections between various lands and peoples, etc. I tend to expand on domain histories to provide greater depth.

I am a fan of the AD&D 2nd Ed Domains of Dread hardback, as well as the 3E Gaz series- although my version of Ravenloft has significant differences from both, especially the Gazetteers.

Of course it's cut and paste. That, IMO, is part of the point of it being a demiplane drawing in places from different locales and some made up out of whole cloth. Personally, I'd like to see a greater variety than is presented...clusters representing, say, classical Greece and Rome, modern horror stories, a greater range of domains based on Egypt, Arabia, India, China, Japan...It doesn't all fit together neatly because it's not exactly supposed to.