Mistfinder: Pathfinder in Ravenloft

[Rotipher of the FoS]

I think the identify magic item ability is a mistake. There is nothing about the class that lends itself to such. And it would make no sense at all for a Lamordian scholar for example. I suppose it is also connected to the question of whether scholars are researchers. If yes, the area of research may often have no connection to magic whatsoever.

I agree with cure on this one. Frankly, if the class needs an "identify so-and-so" power, I'd think a "Know Provenance" capability would be more versatile and appropriate, not to mention less redundant with spellcasters' existing abilities. Rather than telling if something is magical, a scholar might be able to tell the cultural and historical origins of objects (or living organisms, foreign customs, whatever suits their field of study) regardless of whether they're magical or not. Given the importance of researching the opposition in Ravenloft, it could be quite useful to have someone along who can identify the mysterious apparition's garments as 4th century Tergish, etc.

[Mangrum]

Rather than telling if something is magical, a scholar might be able to tell the cultural and historical origins of objects (or living organisms, foreign customs, whatever suits their field of study) regardless of whether they're magical or not.

That sounds like straight-up Knowledge skills to me.

[brass]

Hmm, thanks for the feedback guys. I'll have a think about much of it.

* Improved Skill Focus may need an increase in the bonus

* I'm not sure if all Scholars need the diplomacy of a sociologist, but I might draft up a feature that adss class skills called Area of Study or something like that.

* The curiosity class feature may be dropped. It was one of the features I put in as utility for people playing scholar in a group. I find apart from clerics there is less of a tendency to play primary spell casters in ravenloft, so less identify.

[brass]

How does this strike you as a bit of a patch for the removal of Identify Curiosity?

Area of Study (Ex): A scholar at 2nd level gains access to an additional class skill. This class skill relates to a single area of study that the scholar chooses from the following list,

Biology – Heal
Chemistry – Craft (alchemy)
Education – Intimidate
Geography – Climb
Life Science – Survival
Physics – Fly (though the means must be provided)
Sociology – Bluff

Ugly Child

[cure]

How does this strike you as a bit of a patch for the removal of Identify Curiosity?

Area of Study (Ex): A scholar at 2nd level gains access to an additional class skill. This class skill relates to a single area of study that the scholar chooses from the following list,

Biology – Heal
Chemistry – Craft (alchemy)
Education – Intimidate
Geography – Climb
Life Science – Survival
Physics – Fly (though the means must be provided)
Sociology – Bluff

Ugly Child

A biologist could, alternatively, prefer Handle Animal or Profession (herbalism). A sociologist might, alternatively, prefer Disguise or Sense Motive. Etc.

Equally, the range of possible scholarly interests are in fact large. To name but a few: anthropology, ballistics, botany, chemistry, electromagnetism, geology, history, law, marine biology, naturalism, politics, psycology, speleology, toxicology.

For these two reasons I was driven to the following approach:

Specialisation (Ex) - 1st level: A scholar with maximum rank in at least one knowledge skill may add as class skills any three skills. For example, an anthropologist might choose Hide in Shadows, Move Silently and Sense Motive, a biologist might choose Handle Animals, Hide in Shadows and Spot, a botanist might choose Profession (herbalism), Search and Survival, a geologist might choose Jump, Survival and Rope Use, a marine biologist might choose Handle Animals, Spot and Swim, a naturalist might choose Hide in Shadows, Move Silently and Spot, a psycologist might choose Hypnotism, Intimidate and Sense Motive, a sociologist might choose Bluff, Disguise, and Sense Motive, a speleologist might choose Escape Artist, Survival and Rope Use, and a toxicologist might choose Handle Animals, Heal and Profession (herbalism).

Expertise (Ex) -2nd, 3rd, 4th levels: A scholar with maximum rank in at least one knowledge skill may add as a class skill any one skill.

Starting, however, with a limited list of initial class skills: Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (all save for Ravenloft/planes, each taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (scholar) (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language.

That said, I was still not entirely happy with what, for lack of a better description, would be the line between intellectual and physical skills. A scholar having access, one way or another, to a wide range of intellectual skills related, one way or another, to his or her scholarly work makes sense. A scholar developing physical skills, essentially only usable in the field, is more troublesome. Indiana Jones is not just a scholar, he is a rogue (or some variation thereupon). I don't know if a credible line could be drawn between skills relying upon Int, Wis & Cha over and against those relying on Str, Dex & Con?

This might 'discriminate' against tinkerer scholars, no open lock, but frankly I have never liked the idea of scholars in mechanics, engineering and the like. Does Path Finder offer some class that would address them? And I am similarly not entirely happy with scholars in chemistry, if only because there are classes that address alchemy, which of course is not necessarily the same thing. Given that I can live with scholars in biology, accept scholars in chemistry are part and parcel of the same logic.

[osdem]

If anyone has any art they wish to contribute please contact me.

I can send you some of the pictures i made for ravenloft im my years of playing. You can see some of the ones i made for the "Children of the Night: Demons" that you can download in the old Kargatane web page. My pics are in the pages: 25, 41, 56, 66, 74 and 92 of that netbook.
You can see some more in my web. You must go to the "ilustracion" section:
http://perso.wanadoo.es/osper73/

[brass]

The skill list for pathfinder is pretty trimmed as such I think giving out three class skills would be a bit to much of a bonanza.

The full list,

Acrobatics
Appraise
Bluff
Climb
Craft
Diplomacy
Disable Device
Disguise
Escape Artist
Fly
Handle Animal
Heal
Intimidate
Knowledge (arcana)
Knowledge (dungeoneering)
Knowledge (engineering)
Knowledge (geography)
Knowledge (history)
Knowledge (local)
Knowledge (nature)
Knowledge (nobility)
Knowledge (planes)
Knowledge (religion)
Linguistics
Perception
Perform
Profession
Ride
Sense Motive
Sleight of Hand
Spellcraft
Stealth
Survival
Swim
Use Magic Device

Also there are less skill points about as at first level you don't get your X4, skill synergy has been removed, but the skill focus and skill feats have been improved.

At the heart of it I want scholar to remain an acedemic. It's fine dipping their toe in the physical side of things, but I don't think that they should be Indiana Jones.

I think think two chosen class skills with only one based on str, dex or con might do it. What do you think?

[brass]

If anyone has any art they wish to contribute please contact me.

I can send you some of the pictures i made for ravenloft im my years of playing. You can see some of the ones i made for the "Children of the Night: Demons" that you can download in the old Kargatane web page. My pics are in the pages: 25, 41, 56, 66, 74 and 92 of that netbook.
You can see some more in my web. You must go to the "ilustracion" section:
http://perso.wanadoo.es/osper73/

Cheers osdem, I'll check your art out.

[cure]

So Hide and Move Silently become Stealth, Listen and Spot become Perception, Open Lock becomes, I would guess, Disable Device, Tumble and Balance become Acrobatics, and probably one or two others that I have missed.

Given that and given the reduction in skill points that you site, then the reduction in choices that you suggest makes perfect sense. And idea of a limited toe dip into the physical side sounds good to me too.

In 3.5, one can become a scholar at 3rd level. Does the reduced available skill points change that? I am not saying that changing that is necessarily a bad thing. Just curious.

[brass]

So Hide and Move Silently become Stealth, Listen and Spot become Perception, Open Lock becomes, I would guess, Disable Device, Tumble and Balance become Acrobatics, and probably one or two others that I have missed.

Given that and given the reduction in skill points that you site, then the reduction in choices that you suggest makes perfect sense. And idea of a limited toe dip into the physical side sounds good to me too.

In 3.5, one can become a scholar at 3rd level. Does the reduced available skill points change that? I am not saying that changing that is necessarily a bad thing. Just curious.

Yep, you can get into scholar at 3rd lvl, max skill ranks have remained the same. Also characters who take a level in a favored class have the option of gaining 1 additional skill rank or an additional hit point .

Since there are now feats at every two levels, the tax of feats for prerequisites is not as severe.

Jump got folded into acrobatics as well, Linguistics is speak language, forgery and decipher script.

I've done some revisions to linguistics you can read on the other thread.

[The Giamarga]

In 3.5 Scholar was accessable at CL2.

[brass]

Well prerequisites are 5 ranks and at CL 2 max ranks are 5. So I don't see any problems, if you focus.

[brass]

Some more conversions are up on the paizo thread. I've started on the base classes. Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Paladin and Ranger are up.

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/pa ... &page=last

[The Giamarga]

Check out this article by Mark Gedak on Undying Love

[brass]

So Hide and Move Silently become Stealth, Listen and Spot become Perception, Open Lock becomes, I would guess, Disable Device, Tumble and Balance become Acrobatics, and probably one or two others that I have missed.

Given that and given the reduction in skill points that you site, then the reduction in choices that you suggest makes perfect sense. And idea of a limited toe dip into the physical side sounds good to me too.

In 3.5, one can become a scholar at 3rd level. Does the reduced available skill points change that? I am not saying that changing that is necessarily a bad thing. Just curious.

Yep, you can get into scholar at 3rd lvl, max skill ranks have remained the same. Also characters who take a level in a favored class have the option of gaining 1 additional skill rank or an additional hit point .

Since there are now feats at every two levels, the tax of feats for prerequisites is not as severe.

Jump got folded into acrobatics as well, Linguistics is speak language, forgery and decipher script.

I've done some revisions to linguistics you can read on the other thread.

Since I'm on to doing stuff with skills I've noticed I was wrong. Max ranks are now your character level with class skills receiving a +3 . As such I'll be lowering the scholar class’s entry prerequisites to 3 in two knowledge skills. This will allow entry at level 4, without trivialising the effort to get into the class.