The Fiendish Races and Ravenloft

[Galeros]

How do you use the three Fiendish races in Ravenloft?

For me, I think I might remove their realty wrinkle ability. As I like the idea of the Darklords being the ones having complete power over their domains, even above so called evil given physical form.

[ewancummins]

How do you use the three Fiendish races in Ravenloft?

For me, I think I might remove their realty wrinkle ability. As I like the idea of the Darklords being the ones having complete power over their domains, even above so called evil given physical form.

Which three fiendish races?

[Galeros]

How do you use the three Fiendish races in Ravenloft?

For me, I think I might remove their realty wrinkle ability. As I like the idea of the Darklords being the ones having complete power over their domains, even above so called evil given physical form.

Which three fiendish races?

The Daemons, Demons, and Devils of course.

[ewancummins]

How do you use the three Fiendish races in Ravenloft?

For me, I think I might remove their realty wrinkle ability. As I like the idea of the Darklords being the ones having complete power over their domains, even above so called evil given physical form.

Which three fiendish races?

The Daemons, Demons, and Devils of course.

What- no demodands?

[Strahdsbuddy]

The Daemons, Demons, and Devils of course.

What ever happened to Tanar-ri, Baatezu and Yugoloths? damn these kids and their new terminology!

Honestly, I never liked the idea of outsiders in any of my D&D games, not even Ravenloft. I especially never liked the number of them. Drigor seemed like plenty of fiend for the whole northern Core. The Black Duke worked better as a legend than an actual monster, imo. Even Inajira completely detracts from the Strahd story.

Stu Turner seemed to know how to use these creatures. His Marquis de Penible, who is featured in CotN: Demons as well as his campaign is a human who attempts to transform himself into an outsider (a Kyton). This is more in line with the Gothic tradition, I would say. Instead of opening the sky for thousands of winged terrors to swoop in (anyone see Legion?) just having one human push the limits of morality. Human morality, something you're average demon really doesn't live its life by. I would say outer plane occurances are best used in sprinkles rather than wide brushes. Isolde and the Gentleman Caller is a good backdrop, Malocchio I'm not in love with but I like him more than roaming Pit Fiends.

One thing I DO like is the land-based powers, and I think this is something that could be added to the Arcanist or other knowledge-seeking types. Toned down a little bit I think it could add a lot to a human's pursuit of power.

[ewancummins]

The Daemons, Demons, and Devils of course.

What ever happened to Tanar-ri, Baatezu and Yugoloths? damn these kids and their new terminology!

Honestly, I never liked the idea of outsiders in any of my D&D games, not even Ravenloft. I especially never liked the number of them. Drigor seemed like plenty of fiend for the whole northern Core. The Black Duke worked better as a legend than an actual monster, imo. Even Inajira completely detracts from the Strahd story.

Stu Turner seemed to know how to use these creatures. His Marquis de Penible, who is featured in CotN: Demons as well as his campaign is a human who attempts to transform himself into an outsider (a Kyton). This is more in line with the Gothic tradition, I would say. Instead of opening the sky for thousands of winged terrors to swoop in (anyone see Legion?) just having one human push the limits of morality. Human morality, something you're average demon really doesn't live its life by. I would say outer plane occurances are best used in sprinkles rather than wide brushes. Isolde and the Gentleman Caller is a good backdrop, Malocchio I'm not in love with but I like him more than roaming Pit Fiends.

One thing I DO like is the land-based powers, and I think this is something that could be added to the Arcanist or other knowledge-seeking types. Toned down a little bit I think it could add a lot to a human's pursuit of power.

Inajira....yeah, he doesn't work for me. I have completely excised him from canon.

New terminology? LOL- He's using the older terminology of AD&D.

The only fiend to make an appearance IMC was one summoned by Tarlyn's PC. the PC in question thought he could use the summoned fiend to attack another PC (an evil PC). The fiend killed/partially ate Steve's dude, and then it ran away.

[alhoon]

I go for the middle. Some fiend bosses (GC, that sucubus in Falkovia that puts people in dolls, a gelugon, Inajira + 3-4 more including half fiends) and some lesser fiends to accompany them and make for interesting flashy encounters, like Barbazu or or other CR 6-8 soldier like fiends + their cults (Which are evil mortals).
Those fiends though have drastically lesser RWinkles. They start at 200' x CR not 2K x HD.

Yes, no pit fiends or Balors in Ravenloft, that would be too much IMO. A balor in Halzan for example could well wipe out everyone. A pit fiend would be... bored, as they control huge swaths of the 9 hells, organize their millions of subordinates and slaves, the daily routine of torturing hundreds of millions of evil petitioners etc.

I admit that I've dropped a Marilith in Ravenloft, as a challenge to my high level PCs (well, they failed, she trashed a whole homebrew domain).

HOWEVER:
- I also like the approach of D&D immortals box (1984). That fiends are actually very low deities, not just paragons of evil given flesh. Even as such, those fiends were of increadible power and could only be banished, not killed, by mortals and they could grant a lot of requests.

[Galeros]

Inajira....yeah, he doesn't work for me. I have completely excised him from canon.

Me either. Bye bye Inajira.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

FWIW, I rather like one of Van Richten's own theories for the origins of fiends: that they're not members of an otherworldly race at all, but an unique manifestation of the evil within a corrupted individual's soul. If I'm running a Ravenloft game that's self-contained, and isn't otherwise connected to the wider D&D cosmology, that's what I tend to go along with.

[Galeros]

FWIW, I rather like one of Van Richten's own theories for the origins of fiends: that they're not members of an otherworldly race at all, but an unique manifestation of the evil within a corrupted individual's soul. If I'm running a Ravenloft game that's self-contained, and isn't otherwise connected to the wider D&D cosmology, that's what I tend to go along with.

Ooooh, that is good too.

[High Priest Mikhal]

What ever happened to Tanar-ri, Baatezu and Yugoloths? damn these kids and their new terminology!

As it was said before, the terms "baatezu," "tanar'ri," and "yugoloths" (and "ghereleths," or demodands) originate in older versions of D&D. Specifically during a time when WotC was trying to avoid being labeled Satanic by alarmists like Tipper Gore. In 3e the terms demons, devils, daemons, and demodands became generic for fiends originating in the Abyss, Baator, Hades, or Carceri, respectively. FC I introduced two new demon "races, the ancient proto-demons the obyrith and the immaterial loumara. All of them technically fall under the aegis of "demon."

FC II hinted at the existence of proto-Baatorians, but that was never really detailed. I don't know of any canon source that details yugoloths or ghereleths.

[alhoon]

Well Baatezu are one race of lawful evil outsiders, or devils, not the only one. Every lawful evil outsider is considered a devil IIRC.

[steveflam]

Just out of couriosity, are all the demons, devils, baatezu, ta'anari etc well described and detailed in 3.5 like they are in the Monster Manual in 2E and 1E? I don't remember seeing Orcus, Asmodeus or any of those dudes in 3.5.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Several of them, including Orcus, and I think Asmodeus, were in the 3.0 Book of Vile Darkness.

[Hogan Van Monsterband]

I tend to use fiends as sui generis guys - no Blood War, no Abyss/9 Hells, fiends just come from somewhere else when you want something to make a faustian bargain with. My demons are more inspired by Hellraiser than anything else - they're either summoned via a Box (which the PCs currently have - they have a portal out of Ravenloft, but it leads to Hell) or possess people.