5e announced!

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Re: 5e announced!

Post by Jester of the FoS »

alhoon wrote:Many of the things I liked are under scrunity. There are some DMs that find 5e too ... complicated to DM. :? I would certainly not like it to become much simpler, it's as complicated as I like it at that point and I'm worried that simplifying it, would just lead to it being "dumbed down"
I think what we need for DMs is more advice and help.
alhoon wrote:There's also concern about the backstab so they may remove it from the rogue and have it as a power he may select. Come on! Rogue without a backstab is not a rogue! Do some special variant that you can drop the backstab for the 1/100 rogues that don't need it.
That does sound like what they're leaning to. So the trapfinder rogue, conman rogue, and acrobat rogue might not stab people in the back as their default.
I also know they were trying other options in addition to sneak attack, for actions every round.
alhoon wrote:Wizard's magic is considered also "inflexible" and people call for other magic systems to be included. Well, I don't mind the introduction of "traditions" as Mike suggests.
I'd rather have them focus on specialities.
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Re: 5e announced!

Post by alhoon »

On the plus side, we have 85K playtesters. That's huge.
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Re: 5e announced!

Post by alhoon »

New playtest package. Refinement to monsters, Refinement of DM table for encounters aaaaand magic items.

They still insist that magic items won't be necessary and there won't be considered that every 10th lvl fighter has a +2 sword.
Which means high level monsters will be from underpowered to extremely underpowered. Because even in low magic campaigns, a 14th lvl fighter WILL have at least a +2 sword and a +3 armor. To consider he won't have that by default is absurd.

Monsters: They seem better, more balanced to me (without testing yet though) and more importantly: More thematic.
For example a zombie now when it would be reduced to 0 hp, it makes a con save and if it succeeds it remains at 1 hp instead.
The only kinda off thing, is that orcs are relentless, ala 4th edition. I.e. instead of a rage attack, they now can stay in the fight for one round even in negative hp unless the attack kills them outright. I take that as "unless they're reduced to -10 hp or killed by a deathspell"

Magic items: We're on the low magic by default now. Markets for magic items are non-existant, although a large city may have an academy that has a small selection of potions for sale, or a wizard may give a scroll to the characters if they complete a quest.
In very rare occasions, the PCs might actually hear about a magic item being auctioned in the underdark or in a big city or something. Such events are considered big news, like the sale of a big factory in modern times.
Selling permanent magic items? Well, no market = as much as the interested party can pay. Which should be below the actual worth of the item. Or an exchange of magic items or a service.
Items come in common, uncommon, rare, very rare, legendary and artifacts. Rare items should be worth about 500-2000 gp and the game suggests that they should be considered for characters over 5th lvl.

A +1 sword is an uncommon item worth 100-500 gp and the game suggests it should be consider for characters over 3rd lvl. Now, don't get me wrong, but I get what they mean by the "sold well below the worth". If your dwarver buyer offers you 150 gold for a +1 axe, you kick him hard, you don't sell it.
Saying that it's hard enough to find a rich patron to buy a sword for the cost of two suits of chain mail is redonkulous.
PS. gauntlets of ogre strength and pearl of power (up to 3rd lvl) are... uncommon. And the gauntlets put your str to 19, as in the old days. Now, tell me who in their right mind believes that such things are not worth a couple of chain mails.

And then... the tables of suggested magic items/encounter are given and the whole talk about rarity of magic items is put aside. In about 1/5 average encounters, you'll get 1 or 2 uncommon items according to the rules. In 100 average encounters you would encounter on average 25 uncommon items. I.e. the party would encounter 2-3 items per lever (assuming 10 average encounters/lvl). Tough encounters (PC lvl+2) award like 50/100 encounters.
If we go by the "common sense" rule that uncommon items appear in the loot after the PCs reach 3rd level and rare items appear after the PCs reach 5th lvl etc...
By the time the PCs are 8th lvl they would have on average 14-15 uncommon items in the party (including some for tough encounters). I.e. 3-4 items each in a party of 4 characters.
Certainly not many, but not few either. With so many items around, there should be markets.

Personally, that's the frequency I like in magic items. like 3/level or 1-2 per adventure.

On rare items: According to the rules, they average on like 4.5/100 average encounters, or 25/100 tough encounters. You won't see your 10th lvl chars hoarding these. If the PCs have 7 average and 2 tough encounters per level (rare should appear over 5th lvl encounters), at 10th lvl the PCs would have on average 4 rare magic items (+special rewards by the DM). :? That's 1 rare/character.
That's kinda too low IMO, except from Ravenloft.

On very rare+: Yeah, good luck. Those things are almost never present in random hoards. The PCs will get them when the DM assigns them by hand. No vorpal swords will surface on the average campaign.
PS. Vorpal is legendary and legendaries are supposed to be 1 or 2 of a kind. So probably each one (if there are more than one that is) are named or something.

On rarity itself:
OK, +1 weapons or usual armor+1 are uncommon. Makes sense.
Gauntlets of ogre str and pearl of power also uncommon?
Oil of etherealness (you go to the border ethereal and can choose to move back to the material or deep ethereal) is uncommon but... potion of invisibility is rare?
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Re: 5e announced!

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

alhoon wrote:On the plus side, we have 85K playtesters. That's huge.
Yes, but likely many of them are like me. Signed up with the intention of playtesting and actively contributing, then due to time constraints, settled for reading the material and answering the surveys, then due to further time constraints settled for downloading the material and never finding time to look at it. :(
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Re: 5e announced!

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Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:
alhoon wrote:On the plus side, we have 85K playtesters. That's huge.
Yes, but likely many of them are like me. Signed up with the intention of playtesting and actively contributing, then due to time constraints, settled for reading the material and answering the surveys, then due to further time constraints settled for downloading the material and never finding time to look at it. :(
No, the 85K are those that RESPONDED to the survey, not just downloaded the material.
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Re: 5e announced!

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

alhoon wrote:No, the 85K are those that RESPONDED to the survey, not just downloaded the material.
Ah... well, that's good then. :)
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Re: 5e announced!

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http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx ... /20121009a

A poll about undead! Ghouls especially are depicted as the Hungry dead from VRGttWD and WotC asks us if we prefer it that way.

Vampires are influenced by Strahd. It's there in their description.
And the final poll option in the vampire is... "You're actually Strahd, aren't you?" :lol:

YOUR VOTE IS NEEDED!
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Re: 5e announced!

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Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:
alhoon wrote:On the plus side, we have 85K playtesters. That's huge.
Yes, but likely many of them are like me. Signed up with the intention of playtesting and actively contributing, then due to time constraints, settled for reading the material and answering the surveys, then due to further time constraints settled for downloading the material and never finding time to look at it. :(
I know the feeling!
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Re: 5e announced!

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New playtest material coming later today.

One thing that turned me off kinda is...
Fewer spells/lvl. Capped at just 2 :(
To compensate we will get at-will powers based on deity/wizard tradition and wizards will get a "Signature" spell they can use 1/5 mins. I.e. encounter power.

They're thinking of reworking the rituals to make them cheaper so they get used more often.
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Re: 5e announced!

Post by alhoon »

Just downloaded the new playtest material, lvls 1-10 -3- adventures for free this time.

Obviously haven't seen a lot of it yet. However, one thing caught my eye and made me happy:
We have Phantasmal force back!
And magic missile now can be prepared at various spell lvls dealing 2d4+5 / spell level. I.e. if you cast it as 4th lvl spell it would create 4 missiles, each of 2d4+5 damage.

EDIT:
As I read random stuff:
Mummy: :shock: We're back at the 2nd edition mummy that wasn't uberstrong (i.e she has just 16 str) but... Ouch. The touch... the curse. Ouch.
1d6+3 +2d6 necrotic + mummy rot. Mummy rot? You can't regain hp and a -10 from your max hp/day. If you reach 0 you die.
2WeapFighting: Improved although there are no feats for it at the moment. As it is, seems OK for untrained in 2WF warriors.

Critical hits: Weird... maximum damage +extra damage if you have class levels. Starts at 2d6 and increases by 1d6 for every odd level after 1st. i.e. 3d6 at 3rd etc up to 6d6 at lvl 9.


Wizards/Clerics: I prefer the old version. For wizards this "signature" spell is OK at 1st lvl but at 9th lvl it's next to useless. It's not worth losing so many spells over having at will 0 level spells and 1 1st lvl spell as a per-encounter power.
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Re: 5e announced!

Post by Jester of the FoS »

This is stills playtest, and WotC likes focusing attention. The cap on spells per level is likely to guage where spells per day should be while also letting people test the signature spell mechanic, by setting up situations where it gets used more.
If at the end of their adventuring day, wizards regularly have no spells left then maybe they need more. If they have one or two it might be just right.

I'm less impressed by the sneak attack change. Very underpowered and feels half done.
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Re: 5e announced!

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yeah, I noticed that too... Although I would say it's kinda underpowered, not very.

More or less, I prefered the previous package's classes more.
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Re: 5e announced!

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The Gist from legends and lore today.
Back in 4E they wanted each level to offer something new and exciting. Every time you gained a level you gained some power, feat or both.

Well, now you won't. :( To simplify high level play, they reduce the powers you get per level. At high levels you will gain powers sparserly and the ones you have will grow in a slower pace. Including spellcasting with the very few spells. As if a 1st lvl spell 1/encounter will be useful ability to a 12th lvl character.
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Re: 5e announced!

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Mind flayers, Beholders and Aboleth today in the poll!
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Re: 5e announced!

Post by Jester of the FoS »

And WotC surprises us with a new class today: the monk.

Yeah... the monk. Bit of an oddball choice.
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