Pathfinder in the Mists

[Ryan Naylor]

Thank you both.

I'd love to see your competition, Giamarga.

[Zilfer]

Got a question that might come up for me in the campaign for Dark Power's checks. I have 2 paladin's of the morning lord in the game and I have Lyssa trying to rise to a seat of power by allying with Strahd's former pet Sheriff. (Because I couldn't think of anyone better roll your eyes now! ) Currently have Strahd as dead for 3 months, due to meddlings of Leo Dilisnya (who was freed in a former campaign of mine with a good number of the same players) Without breaking into tangent.

The players may meet Lyssa or Sheriff to help with a Gundarkite problem. The Gundarkites are killing the old spy's of Strahd (Vistani by number), and wanting to gather an army to take over for Gundarkite supremesy(sp?). (probably going to use fanatics of Erlin heading this moment. Ardonk for it but not quite as fanatical.)

So the "working with Evil willing bit." does the person A) First have to know their evil? B) If they don't know they are evil In character do they get a check? C) What if Lyssa for example was able to enthrall the Paladins to work with her?

Lyssa needless to say has similar plans for Ardonk so she can also use both Sheriff's forces gathering up to fight Dilisnya's as well as whatever Ardonk's Gundarkites can offer against a brewing war with Borca. I'm of course leaving out one major spoiler due to a few members of my game being on the board.

[Ryan Naylor]

Lyssa trying to rise to a seat of power by allying with Strahd's former pet Sheriff. (Because I couldn't think of anyone better roll your eyes now! )

It's funny, because that was exactly what I was doing as I read it!

So the "working with Evil willing bit." does the person A) First have to know their evil? B) If they don't know they are evil In character do they get a check? C) What if Lyssa for example was able to enthrall the Paladins to work with her?

You can only be held morally responsible (i.e. fail a Dark Powers check) for something that you knowingly and wilfully do. Intention has always been a vital part of the check, since the Black Box.

So for (c), definitely no check. They're enthralled, so they're not responsible.
For (b), probably not. If what they're doing would seem evil to a reasonable observer ("Murder these puppies for me!"), they should. If not ("Buy some milk for my coffee!"), no.
For (a), probably, but it depends what they're working together to achieve. There are times when working alongside an evil person results in good; but if it's just the lesser of two evils, or is pure evil, make the check. This one is the most circumstantial.

[Zilfer]

Ok that's what I was thinking and glad you got a laugh. Sometimes i can 'see' what the other person on the other side of the screen is going to do. xD

[Ryan Naylor]

A short dip into the ways of the world:



Innocence

Innocence is a soul completely free of the taint of evil. It is a supernatural quality, easily lost to experience. Most people lose their innocence by their early teens, although some unfortunates may lose it far earlier, and some cloistered souls may keep it far longer than is usual.

An Innocent must be humanoid, of good alignment, and never committed an act worthy of a Powers check.

An Innocent gains a +2 divine bonus to all saving throws against any spell-like or supernatural ability that either requires a Powers check or is used by an evil creature. However, your naiveté causes a -2 competence penalty to Sense Motive checks and Horror saves. Innocence can be made the target of magical abilities that affect alignment (which would otherwise be blocked or obscured in Ravenloft). Some spells in Ravenloft target Innocence, and many supernatural creatures are perversely attracted to it. Innocence can also prevent xenophobia from nonevil humanoids.

You lose your Innocence if you fail to meet the above prerequisites, if you are cursed, or if you suffer a moderate or major Horror or Madness effect. You may also voluntarily lose your Innocence at any time. Once lost, Innocence can never be regained.

Intelligent undead, fey and outsiders are able to detect Innocence with a Sense Motive check (DC 20 – target’s HD). This is a standard action which does not provoke an attack of opportunity, usable at will. It has a range of 30 ft.


Xenophobia

The people of Ravenloft are isolated and superstitious, unwilling to accept strangers. Few travel more than about 10 miles from their place of birth in their entire lives. Anything that is different, has supernatural powers, or an evil reputation provokes this fear and hatred.

For that reason, the starting attitude of any NPC (except those who, at the GM’s discretion, have travelled widely enough to overcome their xenophobia) is unfriendly towards anyone who is of a different race or nationality. While they won’t try to actively hurt you, they won’t interfere with those that would and could easily be convinced to conspire against you.

For example, a dwarf or gnome in any human settlement will encounter some hostility. Likewise, a Falkovnian will suffer the same in Dementlieu, despite being human. Half-elves, giomorgo and dhampirs lack communities of their own, and so are always received with unfriendly stares.

There are three exceptions to this rule. Halflings are common and (somewhat patronisingly) seen as harmless; their starting attitude is generally indifferent, not unfriendly. Conversely, calibans are regarded with horror, as are elves in Darkon and surrounding domains; their starting attitude is generally hostile. The GM should note that this does not mean that people will attack them wherever they go. Calibans are believed to be able to curse those who harm them, and elves are famous for disproportionately avenging any slight, real or imagined, so fear will keep many people civil, if obviously antagonistic. They will, however, try to cheat you, refuse to help you, keep you from safety, use violence if they think they can get away with it or at the slightest provocation, and try to convince you to move on as quickly as possible.

Many classes also provoke xenophobia. Sorcerers and summoners have an aura of menace that provokes an unfriendly attitude in humans and halflings. Likewise, villagers are unfriendly towards those they believe are alchemists, inquisitors, oracles, wizards, witches or magi, but those who make an effort to disguise their ability to cast spells can avoid this. This does not stack with xenophobia due to race or nationality.

Innocence improves the attitude of nonevil humanoids by one step, to a maximum of Indifferent. An Innocent elf, for example, would provoke a starting attitude of Unfriendly.

Xenophobia can be avoided with a Disguise check. Matters of nationality typically count as minor details only (+5 to the check). A giomorgo or dhampir can disguise himself as a normal human without penalty. Disguising oneself as a member of another race suffers a -2 penalty (-12 if they are of different size categories). An aura of menace or Innocence can’t be disguised.

Note this list is not exhaustive. Regional (for example) variations may exist.

Condition Starting attitude Disguise?
Halfling, half-elf (Integrated ability) Indifferent Y
Other nationality Unfriendly Y
Other race Unfriendly Y
Caliban, elf (N Core) Hostile Y
Nonhuman appearance Hostile Y
Innocent One better (nonevil) N
Aura of menace (sorcerer, summoner, Hollow feat) Unfriendly or worse N
Deformity (scarring, curse etc) One worse than normal Y


Ethereal Resonance and Sinkholes of Evil

Ravenloft is a land shaped by passion and fear. Emotions linger, forming ethereal resonance. If these emotions are powerful enough, they can seep into the subconscious minds of creatures in the area.

All resonance is imbued with one or more emotions. If the resonance is powerful enough, it applies a penalty to any Will saves made to resist its focal emotions. For example, creatures in a lover’s grove might suffer a penalty to any effect that creates feelings of lust or affection, such as charm spells.

Rank Ethereal Mod. Material Mod. Min Cha
1 +0 +0 6
2 +1 +0 8
3 +2 +1 10
4 +4 +2 12
5 +6 +3 14


Ethereal resonance imbued with negative emotions are called sinkholes of evil. In these areas, the penalty applies to all Will saves and all attempts to channel energy or turn undead. A character must make a madness save (DC 15) for every 24 hours they spend in a rank 5 sinkhole of evil, or DC 25 if it is a phantasmagorum.

Resonance increases by 1 rank within 300 ft of a darklord.

Sinkholes of evil can be detected by druids, outsiders, fey and intelligent undead. Druids can detect them with a Perception check (DC 30 – rank when within 100 ft per rank, or 20 – rank within the sinkhole). Outsiders, fey and intelligent undead can detect them with a Perception check (DC 20 – rank, within 300 ft per rank).

Ethereal resonance fades once the emotions required to feed it fade. If ethereal resonance is not sustained (a bordello closes down, a church is deconsecrated, a haunted house is abandoned and forgotten), its rank decreases by one every month in the absence of living beings who remember the events that spawned it to a minimum of rank 1. When a ghost is created, the ethereal resonance immediately rises to match the rank of the ghost, and the ghost itself prevents the ethereal resonance from fading. Bards can attempt to reduce sinkholes of evil by performing in the area for 2 weeks then making a Perform check (DC 30 + sinkhole rank). If they succeed, the rank is reduced by one.

For ethereal creatures, structures with ethereal resonance gain solidity. Ghosts pass through material structures as if they don’t exist, and can pass through ethereal objects of lower ranks than themselves in the same way (although they can interact with them if they wish). Ethereal resonance of equal or greater rank is completely solid to them. Ethereal resonance is solid for living beings that do not meet the minimum Charisma requirements for that rank. If they do, they can pass through or interact with it as they wish.

Haunts, phantoms and phantasmagora are examples of particularly extreme ethereal resonance. Phantoms are ethereal imprints of particular moments of great emotion. They are mindless images, endlessly replaying the event that led to their creation, without variation. Haunts bridge the gap between phantoms and ghosts; some are nothing more than phantoms of sufficient rank to interact with the mortal world, while others are (usually weak) ghosts.

Phantasmagora are created when a rank 5 sinkhole of evil becomes so monstrous that it gains a kind of malevolent self-awareness becoming the ghost of an evil place, rather than of a person. They want to feed off the slowly building fear of those within their borders, targeting those with weak wills first, fraying their sanity, driving them to murder or suicide. Often, it frees one or two to ensure its notoriety lives on.

They have the following abilities (CL 20, DC 25):

Detect Thoughts (Sp): The phantasmagorum can read the minds of every creature in it as though it had examined them for 3 rounds. The creatures must make a Will save upon entering the sinkhole, and every 6 hours thereafter. Once the save fails, their thoughts are open to the spirit until they leave its boundaries.

Mind Games (Sp): Create any number of persistent images at will. These are phantasms, not figments, do not become translucent if disbelieved, and last as long as the phantasmagorum wishes.

Phantom Shift (Su): The phantasmagorum can replace any part of its physical structure with its ethereal counterpart for as long as it desires. Material creatures interact with the ethereal structure as if they were ethereal. Any ethereal creatures in the area become visible and seemingly solid.

Suggestion (Sp): Using an illusion with an auditory component, the spirit can implant a suggestion in the mind of any creature in its boundaries, lasting until fulfilled or the creature leaves its boundaries.
The House of Lament is an extremely powerful phantasmagorum.

[Ryan Naylor]

My fear/horror/madness checks, which I think are less fiddly, but require a little more finesse to administer, than the old ones:


Fear, Horror and Madness

Heroes in a Ravenloft campaign may find themselves facing slavering monsters that can slay with a touch, haunted by the memory of horrendous cruelty, or exposed to alien forces that can wrench their minds apart. The following rules are an optional addition to represent the effect of these terrors on PCs; if the GM thinks a player is adequately representing the hysteria that clouds the minds of characters in classic tales of horror, no dice roll is necessary.

Fear, horror and madness saves are Will saves (or sometimes Fort saves) resulting from exposure to something terrible or unnatural. They are independent of magical fear or any other game effect, so a PC attacked by a dragon must make a fear save and a save against dragonfear. They are not an action and are generally rolled as part of another activity, such as an initiative check or skill check. Characters that are immune to magical fear gain a +4 competence bonus to fear and horror saves, but are not immune to them. If the character makes the save, they are immune to that specific source of fear for 24 hours.

Generally, the DC of the save should be approximately 10 + the average party level, +2 to 4 for more horrific scenes. Remember that higher level characters have more experience than lower level characters, and so may not be afraid of the same things. Likewise, a scene of bloody slaughter is probably more confronting for a bookish wizard than a warrior, so feel free to modify the DC based on personal experience.

The effect of a failed check depends on the degree of failure and source of the emotion. In most cases, the duration should be 1 rd, or 1 encounter in severe cases.

Failure Margin Effect Examples
1-5 Minor Dazed, Sickened, Fatigued, Shaken
6-10 Moderate Stunned/Fascinated, Nauseated, Exhausted, Frightened
11-15 Major Paralyzed/Confused, Disabled, Staggered, Panicked
16+ Catastrophic As major with extended duration

In the event of a catastrophic failure, the character suffers a -4 penalty to fear and horror checks provoked by a similar event for the next month, and must make an unmodified save when confronted with things that wouldn’t normally be cause for a fear or horror save. Thus, a character who is catastrophically frightened by a werewolf may need to make a fear save whenever he approaches the site of the attack, or when he hears dogs baying at the moon, and a fear save at -4 if he sees a shapechanger transform, or is attacked again.

If a character makes another catastrophic failure within that month, they must make a Fort save at the same DC or take 3d6 temporary Constitution damage.

Madness saves should not be roleplayed; they are typically too severe. They can be instigated by complete personal tragedy, having a mental ability reduced to 0, or mental contact with an alien or insane mind (that is, someone who has failed a Madness save, a darklord, undead, outsiders, elementals, oozes, aberrations, and plants if the caster is not a druid or have access to the Plant domain). A character can also deliberately attempt to drive someone mad, by remaining in close proximity for 30 days and then making a Bluff check opposed by the victim’s Sense Motive. If the victim fails, they are driven mad; if they succeed, they can make another Sense Motive check to become aware of the failed gaslighting.

The degree of madness is modified by the degree of failure, as described above. Roll to determine the insanity that afflicts the character. Apply +25% for moderate madness, +50% for major madness, and +75% for catastrophic madness. The character also suffers 1d6 ability damage to Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma for minor madness, 1d6 ability drain for moderate madness, and 1d10 ability drain for major or catastrophic madness.

d100 Madness Effect
1-10 Delusions/hallucinations
11-20 Depression
21-30 Nightmares
31-40 Mania
41-50 Phobia
51-60 Amnesia
61-70 Multiple Personalities
71-80 Paranoia
81-90 Psychosis
91-100 Schizophrenia
101+ Suicidal Thoughts


Amnesia (Save Will DC 20; Onset immediate; Effect –4 penalty on Will saving throws and all skill checks; loss of memory (see below))
A character suffering from amnesia cannot remember things; his name, his skills, and his past are all equal mysteries. He can build new memories, but any memories that existed before he became an amnesiac are suppressed.
Worse, the amnesiac loses all class abilities, feats, and skill ranks for as long as his amnesia lasts. He retains his base attack bonus, base saving throw bonuses, combat maneuver bonus, combat maneuver defense, total experience points, and hit dice (and hit points), but everything else is gone until the amnesia is cured. If a character gains a class level while suffering from amnesia, he may use any abilities gained by that class level normally. If the class level he gained was of a class he already possess levels in, he gains the abilities of a 1st-level character of that class, even though he is technically of a higher level in that class. If his amnesia is later cured, he regains all the full abilities of this class, including those gained from any levels taken while he was suffering from amnesia.

Delusions/Hallucinations (Save Will DC 20; Onset immediate; Effect –2 penalty on Will saving throws and all skill checks; see below)
The character either believes something about themselves that is not true (delusions) or perceives something in the world which does not exist. A deluded character can only perform actions appropriate to the delusion. If confronted with the truth, or if the player is unable to justify a deluded character’s actions, they must make a Madness save or be confused for 1d3 rounds.
A character with hallucinations must save whenever under stress or confronted with a scene reminiscent of whatever caused the original madness save. If they fail, they are subject to a phantasm with the effects of major image. The character can attempt to disbelieve as a standard action, although assurances from allies do not provide any bonus.

Depression (Save Will DC 12; Onset 1 day; Effect see below)
The character is overcome with deep melancholy. At the start of each day, the character must make a Madness save or be sickened and staggered all day. However, the character gains a +4 morale bonus to Fear and Horror saves while overcome with apathy.

Mania/Phobia (Save Will DC 14; Onset 1 day; Effect target is sickened (if manic) or shaken (if phobic) as long as the source of the mania or phobia is obvious; chance of becoming fascinated or frightened (see below))
A mania is an irrational obsession with a (usually inappropriate) particular object or situation, while a phobia is an irrational fear of a (usually commonplace) object or situation. Additionally, if a manic or phobic character is directly confronted by his obsession (requiring a standard action), he must make a Will save against the insanity or become fascinated (if manic) or frightened (if phobic) by the object for 1d6 rounds.

Multiple Personality Disorder (Save Will DC 19; Onset 2d6 days; Effect –6 penalty on Will saving throws and Wisdom-based skill checks; multiple personalities (see below))
This is a complicated disorder that manifests as 1 or more distinct and different personalities within the same body and mind. The number of additional personalities the victim manifests equals the DC of the insanity divided by 10 (round down, minimum of 1 additional personality). Should the insanity worsen in some way (such as by the save DC increasing), the number of additional personalities increases as well. Likewise, the number of additional personalities decreases as the sufferer recovers and the insanity's DC decreases. The GM should develop these additional personalities.
Every morning, and each time the afflicted character is rendered unconscious, he must make a Will save against his insanity's DC. Failure indicates that a different personality takes over. A character's memories and skills remain unchanged, but the various personalities have no knowledge of each other and will deny, often violently, that these other personalities exist.

Nightmares (Save Will DC 17; Onset Immediate; Effect see below)
Each night, the character must make a Madness save or have nightmares. The following day, the character is fatigued and cannot regain arcane spells. After a number of days of fatigue equal to 3 + their Constitution modifier, they become exhausted instead. After a similar period of time, they take 1d3 points of damage to each mental ability score until they lapse into a coma. The following night, if still unable to sleep properly, they die. Sleeping removes 2 days worth of penalties per 8 hours of sleep.

Paranoia (Save Will DC 17; Onset 2d6 days; Effect –4 penalty on Will saves and Charisma-based skill checks; cannot receive benefit from or attempt the Aid Another action; cannot willingly accept aid (including healing) from another creature unless he makes a Will save against his insanity's DC)
The paranoid character is convinced that the world and all that dwell within it are out to get him. Paranoid characters are typically argumentative or introverted.

Psychosis (Save Will DC 20; Onset 3d6 days; Effect character becomes chaotic evil; gains +10 competence bonus on Bluff checks to hide insanity)
This complex insanity fills the victim with hate for the world. He may suppress his psychosis for a period of 1 day by making a Will save against the DC of his insanity, otherwise he cannot help but plot and plan the death and destruction of his friends and enemies alike. For the most part, the impact of psychosis must be roleplayed, although not all players find entertainment in roleplaying a lunatic who's trying to do in his friends. In such cases, the GM should assume control of the character whenever his psychosis is in control.

Schizophrenia (Save Will DC 16; Onset 1d6 days; Effect –4 penalty on all Wisdom and Charisma-based skill checks; cannot take 10 or take 20; chance of becoming confused (see below))
A schizophrenic character has lost his grip on reality, and can no longer tell the difference between what is real and what is not. These constant hallucinations cause the schizophrenic to appear erratic, chaotic, and unpredictable to others. Each time a schizophrenic character finds himself in a stressful situation (such as combat) he must make a Will save against his insanity's DC. Failure indicates that the character becomes confused for 1d6 rounds.

Suicidal Thoughts (Save Will DC 18; Onset immediate; Effect As depression, plus see below)
As depression, except that should the character fail another Fear, Horror or Madness save, they must attempt to take their own life via the most efficient means possible within the next hour.


If any of a character’s mental abilities drop below 3, they become a Lost One—a walking catatonic whose mind was shattered by memories too horrible to bear. They eat and drink if fed, walk if led, and may occasionally mumble gibberish, but otherwise take no meaningful actions. They persist in this state until their madness is cured.

All insanities have a DC that represents the insanity's strength. An insanity's DC indicates the Will save you need to roll in order to resist contracting the insanity when you are initially exposed to it, but also the DC you need to make to recover. Recovering from an insanity naturally is a lengthy process—once per week, you make a Will save against the insanity's current DC. If you succeed on this save, the insanity's DC is reduced by a number of points equal to your Wisdom bonus (minimum of 1). You continue to suffer the full effects of the insanity until its DC is reduced to 0, at which point you are cured and the insanity vanishes completely. Insanity can also be cured using hypnosis; see above.

Lesser restoration has no effect on insanity, but restoration reduces the current DC of one insanity currently affecting a target by an amount equal to the caster's level. Greater restoration, heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish immediately cures a target of all insanity.

[Ryan Naylor]

Curses

The thirst for vengeance carries its own terrible power. When an injustice is committed, the Dark Powers hear the cries of the wronged. If their need for justice is great enough—and their hatred burns hot enough—the Dark Powers may respond. Curses carry the cruel and poetic justice of Ravenloft, but they are evil, and begotten of evil.

To properly lay a curse of vengeance requires a certain amount of thought and preparation. Of course, a curse may hang over its victim’s head for some time before striking. Therefore, it is quite reasonable for the GM to respond to an unexpected curse from a player by describing some non-specific phenomena (a cold wind, a sudden sense of fear, a chill etc) and then deciding later what effect the curse should have, and then rolling to see if it takes effect.

The first and most important step of invoking a curse is the creation of the curse itself. Every curse is unique and capable of producing nearly any result. The more atmospheric the curse, the better the chance it has of gaining the ear of the Dark Powers. A curse should reflect the personality of the invoker and the circumstances in which the curse is laid. The hatred and frustration involved, the need for supernatural justice where no other hope for justice is possible, should be made clear. The punishment must be tailored to fit the crime.

Furthermore, the curse should provide specific guidelines for how it will take effect. A generic, “You’ll be sorry!” will not result in the Dark Powers’ attention in the way that a hissed, “May the world repay you with all the kindness you’ve shown me!” Not least, this provides the GM with some place to start when deciding what effect a curse should have. Note however that no curse should mention game mechanics or be so broad as to prohibit a character from using her abilities (including class abilities, feats or skills). Curses that warp these abilities, or make the character suffer when they use them while still being usable, are much more suitable.

In short, for a curse to have any chance of being effective, how it is to come about must be clearly worded, but without mentioning game mechanics. It must not prevent a character from using their abilities. It must be tailored to suit the crime and laid with suitable drama and passion.

Once the curse has been invoked, the GM must decide how it will take effect and at what severity. The simplest way to do this is to choose a spell effect that the curse will replicate. Generally, spells of up to 6th level are appropriate, and the higher the level, the more grievous the offense. Obviously, the bestow curse spells are a good place to start, but be as creative as you like: the spell may be inherently negative (doom, contagion), a beneficial spell may affect an enemy (bull’s strength, shield of faith), or the reverse of a normally positive spell may affect the victim (true strike, seek thoughts). If a player laid the curse, allow some input from them, although the final decision is of course the GM’s, and it may take effect in entirely unexpected ways. Be true to the letter or the spirit of the curse, but not always both.

To determine if the curse takes effect, the character invoking the curse must make a Charisma check. The DC of this check is 15 + twice the spell level of the curse.

Curse check modifiers
+4 Voice of Wrath feat
+2 Highly justified (truly terrible transgressions; the act is worthy of a Powers Check, although a Powers check was passed. If it was failed, the character is cursed as part of the Powers check, not a curse check)
+2 High drama (even beyond the normal level of drama required; the character must make a bravura performance of their grief and rage. Save this bonus for truly awesome role-playing).
+2 Dying words (if the invoker is disabled or dying and uses their final breath to spit out the curse. They die immediately after, the remains of their life force going into the curse).
-2 No escape clause (see below)
-2 Constant effect (as opposed to a triggered effect. Curses that apply constantly are usually milder, whereas triggered effects—which manifest only under certain conditions or due to certain actions—can be avoided, although often at great cost to the victim).

If the Charisma check is successful, the curse must penetrate the victim’s spell resistance, if any (Spell Penetration applies) to take effect. The victim does not receive a save.

Escape clauses are a particularly important part of laying a curse. They take two forms: avoidance and redemption. Avoidance clauses allow the character to stop the curse by avoiding the conditions that trigger it. Curses with constant effects do not have an avoidance escape clauses by definition.

Redemption clauses offer a way for the character to permanently break the curse. When this deed is done, the curse is lifted. Without a redemption clause being fulfilled, curses are permanent (although a character can attempt to avoid triggering the curse).

Remove curse and break enchantment cannot lift a curse that has a worded escape clause. It simply lifts it for a number of days equal to the caster level. A curse that does not have an escape clause, however, can be lifted as normal by these spells. More powerful magic like wish and miracle may permanently lift a curse whether it has a worded escape clause or not.
Laying a curse is an evil act, and worthy of a Powers check.

[Nemesio]

Man! You've certainly covered a lot bud! Looks good too...

[Zilfer]

Slight question on the line in Madness saves...

"Madness Saves should not be roleplayed."

Does that mean don't RP the going crazy part? Or don't RP the effect just use the standard effects listed....?

I know most of the time DC's are determined by the DM but it's still nice to have an Examples kind of a ball park like the old one did.

Examples might include....

Dead Body
Lycanthrope Transformation

from what you mentioned in the post above... also at work so gtg!

[Ryan Naylor]

No, I meant, "You can't avoid the effects of a Madness check by roleplaying."

If you come across a hideously slaughtered person, it's fair to say "I freeze in horror and lose the round" rather than rolling the dice and possibly ending up paralysed for 4 rounds.

If the seeds of madness germinate in your brain, it's not valid to say, "I gibber and lose the round" rather than rolling the dice. By all means, people should roleplay the actual madness.


On DCs - the problem I have is that saves are very level and class dependent, and the DCs should be experience (and class) dependent but aren't.

A DC 15 horror save won't bother a cleric of even 2nd level most of the time. But regardless of your level, having a loved one transform into a lycanthrope should be an horrific experience.

Conversely, if you set "transformation of loved one" to DC 25 to challenge the 10th level cleric, it means that the 2nd level clerics using the same table rop dead from fright when they probably shouldn't.

Gore should bother fighters less than it others wizards, as well. And possibly use Fort saves rather than Will.

Basically, there are too many variables.


If you want a rough guide though, something quite challenging should have a DC equal to 11 + EPL. Something less challenging should be about 8 + 1/2 EPL. Something mind blowingly awful should be 15 + EPL. And all of those should have situational modifiers based on the experience and personalities of your PCs. What is "quite challenging" for one PC might be "less challenging" for another.

[Zilfer]

Well when you take into account like Improved Iron Will where you roll 2 dice or get to reroll? I forget which needless to say the chances are kind of low for will characters. Interesting idea switching around Fortitude and Will saves.

I agree there are plenty of variables. Thanks for the additional input. Needless to say I try to temper it so some in the party might fail the save and others have a chance of passing. Never thought to modify depending on an independent basis. Sounds like an interesting idea.

[Zilfer]

Pathfinder DR....

Not sure if this is been brought up but should be be handled straight like it is in Pathfinder?

Meaning if I have a +1 Weapon it over comes Magic DR and Magic damage over comes ALL DR save for 5/- untyped DR?

I mean plenty of PC's have ways to at first level bypass most DR's save for special Material DR's like Silver. (which can be over come with +3 weapons*) A magic user however could kill a werewolf without have to worry about DR. I for some reason in 3.5 I could be wrong how I was doing it then thought DR/silver would work against even magic..... Is that wrong?


* = I'm also not sure +3 weapon doesn't mean for example.... +1 Keen Longsword (Total value of +3 Enchantment) or does it mean it has to be a +3 to hit and damage weapon?

Thanks for any input!

[Ryan Naylor]

DR 5/magic is the weakest: all you need is a magic weapon of any kind or bonus, and you cut through.

For the more exotic ones, like DR 5/silver, you need a silver or mithral weapon, or a magic weapon with at least a +3 attack bonus. Not a total bonus - a longsword +3 gets through; a keen longsword +2 doesn't. All the special materials except adamantine (gold, ebony, ivory, lead etc) should go here.

DR 5/- cannot be overcome.

According to the Rewards chapter, PCs shouldn't be able to have a single piece of gear worth more than 25% of their total. A +3 weapon is worth 18,000 gp. Therefore, they shouldn't be indiscriminately carving through DR with a +3 weapon until about level 10.

Of course, there are things like silversheen you can get at lower levels. Or having actual silver or cold iron weapons. So if your PCs are well prepared, they can cut through reasonably easily. I don't think that's as much of a problem, since basically Van Richten's entire collection of advice amounts to "do your research and come prepared". Especially if you're enforcing opportunity costs for drawing different weapons and applying silversheen, and roleplaying costs for wandering around town with 16 different swords, one of which is solid silver, it can be dealt with. And silver and bone, for example, do less damage than steel, so they're not all that practical to use just on the off chance.

(Or if your PCs are munchkined out so they do so much damage they don't even notice the DR - that might be a different problem though).

Does that answer that part of your question?


As to whether you should treat it in Ravenloft according to normal Pathfinder rules, I think so. Spells, for example, usually come with either touch attacks or saves to do any damage, and are subject to spell resistance, and magic users are typically a lot squishier than warriors, so I think it works out fair in the end.

[Zilfer]

When put this way yes. Thanks again for input.

Have a game tomorrow so just wanted to clear that out of the way before hand. Thinking hard on what I want to use and wanted to clear that up before hand. Thanks!

[Ryan Naylor]

Tristen ApBlanc (Forlorn)

Timeline
207 BC Born in Prime Material Forfar. Flora is lynched and Tristen taken in by druids.
222 BC Tristen murders Rual. Weirdness ensues. Vampyre.
231 BC Tristen sets fire to the sacred grove. Wolves appear in Forfar.
250 BC The ApBlancs die out without heir; the ApFittles take control of Forfar. Fighter 1.
422 BC The Lord’s Tower erected by the minstrel ApBlanc. Fighter 1/Bard 3
426 BC Marries Isolt.
427 BC Gilan born; Morholt born next year, Brangain the year after.
439 BC Gilan killed by wolves.
446 BC Morholt murdered.
451 BC Brangain disappears.
452 BC Timeframe A. Brangain disappears (dies?), Isolt commits suicide.
463 BC The minstrel ApBlanc vanishes. Fighter 1/Bard 4.
519 BC Marc ApBlanc claims the ruined Lord’s Tower, and does it up over the next 4 years. Fighter 1/Bard 5.
537 BC Power dispute between Marc and the ApFittles begins, launching into a full civil war in 540 BC.
543 BC The Time of Terrors begins after Marc razes ApFittle Hall.
547 BC Timeframe B. Andrew ApFittle killed. Tristen becomes darklord of Forlorn. Fighter 2/Bard 5.
648 BC Gundarakan loggers start carving a road into Forlorn. Fighter 3/Bard 5.
733 BC Svendar goes insane after his companions are all killed and spends his time feeding Aggie.
760 BC Present day.

Powers Checks
Caress (Betrayal and Violence: murdering Rual: 32%; 222 BC): Feral allies. From Rual’s curse, gets double identity, allergen, anchored, turning, solstices. Magnitude 2 ghost.
Enticement (Violence: tormenting the people of Birnam: 8%; c350 BC): Alternate form (beast shape II), extra salient abilities.
Invitation (Violence and Betrayal: neglectfully murdering his entire family: 32%; 451 BC): Improved alternate form (beast shape III), magnitude 3 ghost.
Embrace (Violence and Black Magic: the Time of Troubles: 16%; 543 BC): DR in day form, SR in night form.
Creature (Violence and Blasphemy: eradicating the ApFittles and murdering a paladin: 32%; 547 BC): Becomes darklord of Forlorn. Command the clans, link with zombie wolves

Base stats
Vampyre: S 15 D 12 C 12 I 14 W 12 Ch 17 plus +4/+4/+2/+2/+0/-2 to give levels
Human: S 15 D 14 C 12 I 14 W 10 Ch 11 plus ghost, increased abilities
Levelling: Str +2
Favoured class: hp
CR 16 (10 [levels] + 4 [base/template] + 1 [PC-level treasure] +1 [darklord abilities])

760 BC (Current day stats)
CR 16 XP 76,800
Male Vampyre Bard 6/Fighter 4 [day form]
NE Medium Monstrous Humanoid
Init: +3 (Dex) Senses: Darkvision 60’, Perception +14
Defense
AC 26 Touch 14 Flat 22 (+3 Dex, +6 natural, +6 armour, +1 dodge)
Hp 132 (10 + 10d10 + 6d8 +34 + 6)
Fort +10 Ref +14 Will +12 (+4 vs sonic, bardic etc)
Bravery +1
Evasion
DR 5/magic and silver
Channel resistance +1
Offense
Spd 30’
Melee Bite +20 (1d6+5 plus charm) plus 2 claws +19 (1d4+2)
+2 greatsword of mighty cleaving and life stealing +22/+17/+12 (2d6+11; crit 17+)
+2 greatsword of mighty cleaving and life stealing +18/+13/+8 (2d6+23; crit 17+ with Power Attack)
Missile Composite longbow (Str +5) +1 of seeking +21/+16/+11 (1d8+7)
Space/Reach: 5’/5’
S 21 D 16 C 12 I 16 W 10 (12) Ch 19 (21)
BAB +15/+10/+5 CMB +20 (+2 grapple) CMD 34 (+2 grapple) (30)

Male Human Fourth Magnitude Ghost Bard 6/Fighter 4 [night form]
NE Medium Undead (augmented humanoid, incorporeal)
Init: +3 (Dex) Senses: Darkvision 60’, Perception +14
Defense
AC 23 Touch 23 Flat 19 (+3 Dex, +9 deflection, +1 dodge)
Hp 149 (10 + 3d10 + 6d8 + 90 +6)
Fort +6 Ref +9 Will +7 (+4 vs sonic, bardic etc)
Bravery +1
Channel resistance +9
Evasion
SR 24
Offense
Spd Fly 30’ (perfect)
Melee Incorporeal touch +12 (7d6; no save)
Space/Reach: 5’/5’
S – (17) D 16 C – I 16 W 10 (12) Ch 27 (29)
BAB +8/+3 CMB +11 CMD 31 (27)

Feats
Cleave, Dodge, Improved Critical (greatsword), Power Attack, Skill Focus [Perform (String Instruments)], Spell Focus (Enchantment), Weapon Focus (greatsword), Weapon Focus (touch/claws), Weapon Specialization (greatsword)
Day form: Multiattack, Improved Grapple, Ability Focus (charm)
Skills
Acrobatics +10 (4), Bluff +20 (0), Diplomacy +20 (0), Disguise +20 (10/6), Handle Animal +18 (0), Intimidate +18/+22 (10), Knowledge (arcana) +11 (2), Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10 (1), Knowledge (engineering) +10 (1), Knowledge (geography) +10 (1), Knowledge (history) +14 (5), Knowledge (local) +14 (5), Knowledge (nature) +14 (5), Knowledge (nobility) +10 (1), Knowledge (planes) +10 (1), Knowledge (religion) +10 (1), Perception +14 (10/2), Perform (String Instruments) +20 (9/5), Perform (Wind Instruments) +18 (10/6), Sense Motive +14 (10), Spellcraft +16 (10), Stealth +16 (3), Use Magic Device +13 (5/1)
Day form: Climb +13, Escape Artist +13
Night form: Fly +18
Languages
Forfarian*, Draconic, Druidic, Sylvan

Treasure
(46,000 or 139,000 gp/185,000 gp)
Both forms: Ring of evasion, doomharp, headband (Wis, Cha) +2
Day form: Belt of Constitution +2, amulet of natural armour +1, chain shirt +2, greater bracers of archery, greatsword +2 mighty cleaving life stealing, composite longbow (Str +5) +1 of seeking

Special
Both forms:
Bardic Performance (standard action) (18 rounds/day)
Countersong +19
Distraction +4 (+8 at night)
Fascinate (DC 18/22)
Inspire Competence +2
Inspire Courage +2
Suggestion (DC 18/22)
Armour Training 1
Bardic Knowledge +3
Lore Master (1/day)
Versatile Performance (string, wind)
Well Versed
Mastery: +5 (+9 at night)
Sinkhole of evil
Command the clans
Feral allies
Anchored
Allergen
Undying Soul
Turning of the Seasons

Day form:
Charm (DC 22)
Blood drain (1d4 Con damage)
Alternate form
Can be damaged by positive energy from clerics of Belenus
DR 5/magic and silver

Night form:
Rejuvenation
Aura of sobs (DC 24)
Corrupting gaze (DC 24)
Frightful moan (DC 24)
Malevolence (DC 24)
Improved abilities
Corrupting touch

Worg form
+4 natural AC, lowlight vision, scent, bite +20 (1d6+7 plus trip)

Spells
Save DC = 14 + spell level; 15 for Enchantment spells; +4 at night
At will—detect magic, ghost sound, dancing lights, read magic, open/close, mage hand
5/day (+1 at night)—sleep, charm person, lock gaze, moment of greatness
4/day (+1 at night)—allegro, detect thoughts, darkness, hold person