The War in the Core

[thekristhomas]

This is actually a central pillar in Celeste D'Honaire-Loverde's plan to wrest DLship from the Brain, she wants to ensure the Council of Brilliance is largely "clean" and the D'Honaires are immune to mind control, when the time comes however, they will be easy scapegoats
for her to mark as "collaborators" and "Lamordian lackeys" when La Resistance regains control.

The "public" story is that the Lamordians are acting as "peacekeepers" supporting the "legitimate" government (are all the quotation marks irritating?) but that Marcel Guignol (or whoever has replaced him by this point in time) has lost his mandate from the people, so Gerda von Aubreker will act as a "caretaker" Governor in his stead.

For me, this ties in with how I imagine the Brains victory over Dominic soon turns to ashes in his mouth (if he had a mouth). Once he kills Dominic and becomes DL, he imagines that gaining control of the Council of Brilliance will be easy. His sister, Gerda, should make a suitable puppet, and he is pleased by how events have conspired to have him, the true heir to Lamordia, DL over a now Lamordian controlled domain, and once he gains control of his sister, he will finally be the ruler of Lamordia, as it was always supposed to be. However, when he tries to control one of the new appointees to the council, he fails, they are seemingly immune. When he manages to get into range of Gerda he finds that she is already controlled by another. The political system, his sister, Lamordia, all snatched away when they seemed so close. It is his curse to never gain control over the political power in Dementlieu, he earned his DLship through decades of criminal activity within the Dementlieu underground and in the underground he is fated to remain. Under him the domain becomes a kind of negative reflection of itself under D'Honaire, the class struggle that existed goes on but this time the DL is running the mob (in both senses)

That explains what happens but not really why, is is Gerda mind controlled by another D'Honaire into appointing a bunch of them to the Council of Brilliance?

Sorry I must have missed this particular part of the plotline/plan...

Back on page 3 of this thread, I suggested that Celeste D'Honaire-Loverde (heir to the D'Honaire darkness, LoB) would use the Lamordian invasion as cover for her bid to seize control of Dementlieu, mainly by controlling Gerda.

The D'Honaire extended family would be a problem for Celeste, as they are wealthy, potentially influential, and immune to mind control. So she seeks to bring them to heel in the short term by tying them to the Lamordian administration, which she controls through Gerda, and then eliminating those that have proved difficult by handing them over to La Resistance when the time is right.

I'm not sure if I said earlier, but I imagined that Celeste had gained control of Gerda through Celeste's role as a psychiatrist/physician, possibly as a grief counsellor, and that Celeste is largely responsible for Gerda's territorial ambitions, (along with "hawk" factions within Lamordia such as the Syndicate) Celeste had expected to be facing Dominic, but Dominic was killed by agents not hers, which threw her somewhat

[thekristhomas]

Malochio's Route and the fall of Invidia

1. In response to Malochio's invasion on Borca, Strahd reinforces garrisons in larger settlements bordering Invidia and Borca. It is the siege of Vor Ziyden that gives Strahd the excuse he has been looking for to act, as it is a seat of the Order of the Ebon Gargoyle, of which Strahd is a high ranking member (his ancestor did found the order after all) and until her assassination was governed by Ivana Boritsi (with apologies to Dion)

2. Vampire agents of Strahd swarm Degravo, where Ivan Dilisnya is being kept prisoner by Malochio's forces, the Dilisnya dies more quickly than he deserved. With it's remaining darklord dead, Borca's status as a domain goes into flux. Malochio experiences a brief moment of panic when he thinks he might have become trapped as darklord, he has not.

3. The relief of Vor Ziyden is lead by Strahd himself, flexing his general's muscles with his new found access to the land.

4. Forces from Krezk take Levcharest and Misericordia

5. The Knights of the Ebon Gargoyle who survived the siege of Vor Ziyden become the vanguard attacking Ilvin, splitting Malochio's forces in two, at Sturben and Lechburg

6. Seizing her oppurtunity Gabrielle Aderre requests assistance from Harkon Lukas in liberating Invidia from the tyrant Malochio, Lukas's wolfwere rangers move swiftly to occupy the Nharov valley and join up with Invidian/Gundarkite forces at Hunadora

7. Enraged by the encroachment of wolfweres close to "his" territory, Alfred Timothy declares war and sends agents to seize Karina & Castle Loupet

8. Alfred's "war" turns into a series of raids by werewolf hunting parties that level several isolated villages in the Invidian west

9. Azrael decides to join the fun and sends troops into the Breadth Forest

10. Sithican troops march on Karina, unlike in other areas the werewolves here are not content with hit and run tactics, and seem intent on holding the town, the elves think better of it and remain south of the river

11. Hoping to stop Alfred's raids Gabrielle dispatches forces to Curriculo

12. To counter Azrael's advance she sends troops to Valetta

13. Bolstered by Lukas's forces the Invidian/Gundarakite troops lead by Gabrielle attempt to take Zeidenburg. It is a disaster, Barovian discipline trumps the ill planned assault. In disgust Lukas orders his troops to turn on the Invidians, Gabrielle Aderre is killed and Invidia ceases to be a domain it's territory divided up between Kartakass in the east (which also manages to hold on the Nharov valley, and it's one canon settlement, Lowenturm) Verbrek in the west, and Sithicus in the south

14. Barovian forces move on Sturben, Malochio's forces here have nowhere to turn, Invidia is gone, Falkovnia has fallen to Richemulot and the Becoming Plague and Von Zarovich himself stands between them and the nearest friendly force. Quarter is not offered and surrender not accepted.

15. The Barovian army unites at Ilven, under Strahd's command

16. Strahd, the liberator of the Balinoks, marches on Lechberg. Malochio gives up on conquest and teleports to Darkon, where Azalin has assured him "political asylum"...

[jamesfirecat]

13. Bolstered by Lukas's forces the Invidian/Gundarakite troops lead by Gabrielle attempt to take Zeidenburg. It is a disaster, Barovian discipline trumps the ill planned assault. In disgust Lukas orders his troops to turn on the Invidians, Gabrielle Aderre is killed and Invidia ceases to be a domain it's territory divided up between Kartakass in the east (which also manages to hold on the Nharov valley, and it's one canon settlement, Lowenturm) Verbrek in the west, and Sithicus in the south

Wait, what?

Why would Gabrielle be attacking Barovian troops?

Her goal with the revolution has always been about toppling her son because of how he betrayed her more than about regaining political power in Invidia, since it wasn't like she really did anything with it during the time period that she held it.

Why is she leading this attack which does nothing to further her end goals and indeed seems to take her outside of the domain of Invidia itself based on the attached map....

[thekristhomas]

13. Bolstered by Lukas's forces the Invidian/Gundarakite troops lead by Gabrielle attempt to take Zeidenburg. It is a disaster, Barovian discipline trumps the ill planned assault. In disgust Lukas orders his troops to turn on the Invidians, Gabrielle Aderre is killed and Invidia ceases to be a domain it's territory divided up between Kartakass in the east (which also manages to hold on the Nharov valley, and it's one canon settlement, Lowenturm) Verbrek in the west, and Sithicus in the south

Wait, what?

Why would Gabrielle be attacking Barovian troops?

Her goal with the revolution has always been about toppling her son because of how he betrayed her more than about regaining political power in Invidia, since it wasn't like she really did anything with it during the time period that she held it.

Why is she leading this attack which does nothing to further her end goals and indeed seems to take her outside of the domain of Invidia itself based on the attached map....

Yeah, I was pushing it with that one, the justification was that it was to appease the Gundarakite rebels, and I felt we needed a point where Gabby angered Lukas by sending his forces into battle heedlessly (and I was enjoying drawing arrows)

Ha, yeah I remember thinking this through to make sure Lukas never stepped out of Kartakass til after she died, but didn't check that she hadn't left Invidia.

With regard the whole Invidian/Gundarakite/Kartakan alliance, I had a thought that Gabby's daughter might have turned out to be Ardonk's not Matton's, which is what forced her to appeal to Lukas to replace the wolfweres that had deserted her.

OK, so the attack on Zeidenburg is out, The Gundarakites will have to be content with the gains made by Lukas in the Nharov valley (including Lowenturm)

So, which of the assaults should Gabby lead, Curricolo or Valetta? Probably Curriculo as it's the much bigger settlement, but how should it go so wrong as for her to end up dead?

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, it would be so much better if it was the werewolves that killed Gabby. She has a history with werewolves after all, her mother was killed by Alfred and her reign in Invidia began with the death of Bakholis, so yes I'm much happier with them not attacking Barovia

[thekristhomas]

So how about this?

11. Hoping to prevent Sithican gains Gabby sends a force under the command of Ardonk Szerieza to Valetta

12. Seeking to regain the west of Invidia leads a larger force to Curriculo, the fighting in the town is fierce. For Gabrielle Aderre the battle becomes a living nightmare, every werewolf she kills or sees killed wears the face of Bakholis, every person she sees fall to a werewolf's jaws wears the face of her mother. When she dies Invidia ceases to be a domain, it's territory being divided between Verbrek in the west, Sithicus in the south and Kartakass in the east (Kartakass also manages to hold on to the Nharov valley, and Lowenturm)

13. Lukas takes control of his forces personally and occupies Castle Hunadora, Alfred Timothy likewise occupies Castle Loupet, stalemate is soon reached. Content that the Breadth Forest now serves as a buffer between Sithicus proper and this unstable situation, Azrael slinks back home.

[jamesfirecat]

Yeah, I was pushing it with that one, the justification was that it was to appease the Gundarakite rebels, and I felt we needed a point where Gabby angered Lukas by sending his forces into battle heedlessly (and I was enjoying drawing arrows)

Ha, yeah I remember thinking this through to make sure Lukas never stepped out of Kartakass til after she died, but didn't check that she hadn't left Invidia.

With regard the whole Invidian/Gundarakite/Kartakan alliance, I had a thought that Gabby's daughter might have turned out to be Ardonk's not Matton's, which is what forced her to appeal to Lukas to replace the wolfweres that had deserted her.

OK, so the attack on Zeidenburg is out, The Gundarakites will have to be content with the gains made by Lukas in the Nharov valley (including Lowenturm)

So, which of the assaults should Gabby lead, Curricolo or Valetta? Probably Curriculo as it's the much bigger settlement, but how should it go so wrong as for her to end up dead?

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, it would be so much better if it was the werewolves that killed Gabby. She has a history with werewolves after all, her mother was killed by Alfred and her reign in Invidia began with the death of Bakholis, so yes I'm much happier with them not attacking Barovia

If it turns out that Gabrielle's daughter belongs to Ardonk then the Gundarkite rebels are not going to get any more bones thrown there way by her, she has them as surely as she could possibly want them/she's got no need to try and bring them more fully under her banner by going out on a limb when her son's forces in Invidia are at their weakest.

Also why exactly does she go to Lukas for help if Matton turns on her? And why exactly would Lukas agree to help her? Gabrielle (as I understand it) does not like wolf themed shapeshifters, be they werewolves or wolfweres, Matton was a rare exception because he fell in such puppy dog style love with her, that he was willing to help her when she was at her lowest point, and the realization that he's loyal to her without her needing to use magic to control him was a rare and new experience for her.

If you want to make sure that she dies, and you want to have her do stupid/foolish things to get her killed here is my advice.

Have something happen to Lucita her daughter, have her end up getting stabbed with a knife/sword/whatever. As Gabrielle holds her daughter in her arms, and feels Lucita breath her last... she realizes that if only she'd never gotten her wish for her daughter to be human, if only Lucita had been a wolfwere, then she would have easily survived.

Maybe seeing her die like that is what drives Matton over the edge (because he likewise knows that if Lucita had been his daughter and thus a wolfwere she would still be alive) and Gabrielle couldn't even be honest with him on the subject (given his hopeless infatuation with Gabrielle he probably would have been willing to play along/been okay with it if she needed to sleep with Ardonk as a way of securing his loyalty, so long as she kept him in the loop) and then he wolfs out and tears Gabrielle apart.

Gabrielle is ultimately killed by the fact that she always preferred a pleasing lie to a hard truth. That is why she left her mother to die and clung to the illusion of having a perfect father somewhere, that is why she hates how she looks in a mirror even though she is clearly aging gracefully and still quite attractive, that is why she thought the Gentleman Caller would be a perfect lover for her rather than someone like Matton who is a nasty (from her point of view at the time) wolf monster, that is why she refused to tell Matton the about she was sleeping with Ardonk even though she probably didn't need to... and ends up paying the ultimate price because of it.

That my friend (to me) is high tragedy of which Ravenloft /the Dark Powers would be proud.

Ardonk is next of course, and then as many of his followers as Matton can get his paws/fangs on....

If you want to have Gabrielle die/the whole Invidian resistance movement fall apart, that is how I would do it; never use an impersonal battle when personal tragedy /betrayal can achieve the same result...

[thekristhomas]

Yeah, I was pushing it with that one, the justification was that it was to appease the Gundarakite rebels, and I felt we needed a point where Gabby angered Lukas by sending his forces into battle heedlessly (and I was enjoying drawing arrows)

Ha, yeah I remember thinking this through to make sure Lukas never stepped out of Kartakass til after she died, but didn't check that she hadn't left Invidia.

With regard the whole Invidian/Gundarakite/Kartakan alliance, I had a thought that Gabby's daughter might have turned out to be Ardonk's not Matton's, which is what forced her to appeal to Lukas to replace the wolfweres that had deserted her.

OK, so the attack on Zeidenburg is out, The Gundarakites will have to be content with the gains made by Lukas in the Nharov valley (including Lowenturm)

So, which of the assaults should Gabby lead, Curricolo or Valetta? Probably Curriculo as it's the much bigger settlement, but how should it go so wrong as for her to end up dead?

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, it would be so much better if it was the werewolves that killed Gabby. She has a history with werewolves after all, her mother was killed by Alfred and her reign in Invidia began with the death of Bakholis, so yes I'm much happier with them not attacking Barovia

If it turns out that Gabrielle's daughter belongs to Ardonk then the Gundarkite rebels are not going to get any more bones thrown there way by her, she has them as surely as she could possibly want them/she's got no need to try and bring them more fully under her banner by going out on a limb when her son's forces in Invidia are at their weakest.

Also why exactly does she go to Lukas for help if Matton turns on her? And why exactly would Lukas agree to help her? Gabrielle (as I understand it) does not like wolf themed shapeshifters, be they werewolves or wolfweres, Matton was a rare exception because he fell in such puppy dog style love with her, that he was willing to help her when she was at her lowest point, and the realization that he's loyal to her without her needing to use magic to control him was a rare and new experience for her.

If you want to make sure that she dies, and you want to have her do stupid/foolish things to get her killed here is my advice.

Have something happen to Lucita her daughter, have her end up getting stabbed with a knife/sword/whatever. As Gabrielle holds her daughter in her arms, and feels Lucita breath her last... she realizes that if only she'd never gotten her wish for her daughter to be human, if only Lucita had been a wolfwere, then she would have easily survived.

Maybe seeing her die like that is what drives Matton over the edge (because he likewise knows that if Lucita had been his daughter and thus a wolfwere she would still be alive) and Gabrielle couldn't even be honest with him on the subject (given his hopeless infatuation with Gabrielle he probably would have been willing to play along/been okay with it if she needed to sleep with Ardonk as a way of securing his loyalty, so long as she kept him in the loop) and then he wolfs out and tears Gabrielle apart.

Gabrielle is ultimately killed by the fact that she always preferred a pleasing lie to a hard truth. That is why she left her mother to die and clung to the illusion of having a perfect father somewhere, that is why she hates how she looks in a mirror even though she is clearly aging gracefully and still quite attractive, that is why she thought the Gentleman Caller would be a perfect lover for her rather than someone like Matton who is a nasty (from her point of view at the time) wolf monster, that is why she refused to tell Matton the about she was sleeping with Ardonk even though she probably didn't need to... and ends up paying the ultimate price because of it.

That my friend (to me) is high tragedy of which Ravenloft /the Dark Powers would be proud.

Ardonk is next of course, and then as many of his followers as Matton can get his paws/fangs on....

If you want to have Gabrielle die/the whole Invidian resistance movement fall apart, that is how I would do it; never use an impersonal battle when personal tragedy /betrayal can achieve the same result...

I get where your coming from, and I don't disagree, but, there are some structural issues that need to be addressed

Firstly, how do the Kartakans get involved if not by the invitation of either Gabby or Matton? After all, Lukas is taking quite the risk by violating Barovian territory just to get to the fight, even with Strahd distracted in the north (and soon to be distracted in the east). My scenario assumed that Lukas' forces filled a wolfwere shaped hole left by the departure of Matton that Gabby had come to rely upon, and stemmed from Gabby thinking something like "does Matton think I will crumble because he has abandoned me? he shall see...there are greater wolfweres than he", but I get if you think this is unlike her (I wanted to say OOC but that means something different to us )

And I really want Lukas in on this, it seems the perfect opportunity to give him what he wants (expanded territory, and the expectation of prestige) and it turn out to be worse than nothing (a nearly empty river valley, with the exception of Lowenturm, a ruined castle and a few paltry villages so scattered that any attempt to unify is pointless), and it's always seemed odd to me that the wolfweres and the werewolves don't have a border.

Is it possible that instead of joining the fray by the invitation of Gabby, he is encouraged to invade Barovia by intelligence concerning the planned Vaasi attack against Strahd. Again I can't see Lukas being allied with either Hazlik or Othmar, but if he has gotten wind of an invasion (quite likely given the numbers involved), then he might see the annexation of the Nharov valley as an acceptable risk to get to the Invidian territory, which is ripe for plunder.

[jamesfirecat]

I get where your coming from, and I don't disagree, but, there are some structural issues that need to be addressed

Firstly, how do the Kartakans get involved if not by the invitation of either Gabby or Matton? After all, Lukas is taking quite the risk by violating Barovian territory just to get to the fight, even with Strahd distracted in the north (and soon to be distracted in the east). My scenario assumed that Lukas' forces filled a wolfwere shaped hole left by the departure of Matton that Gabby had come to rely upon, and stemmed from Gabby thinking something like "does Matton think I will crumble because he has abandoned me? he shall see...there are greater wolfweres than he", but I get if you think this is unlike her (I wanted to say OOC but that means something different to us )

And I really want Lukas in on this, it seems the perfect opportunity to give him what he wants (expanded territory, and the expectation of prestige) and it turn out to be worse than nothing (a nearly empty river valley, with the exception of Lowenturm, a ruined castle and a few paltry villages so scattered that any attempt to unify is pointless), and it's always seemed odd to me that the wolfweres and the werewolves don't have a border.

Is it possible that instead of joining the fray by the invitation of Gabby, he is encouraged to invade Barovia by intelligence concerning the planned Vaasi attack against Strahd. Again I can't see Lukas being allied with either Hazlik or Othmar, but if he has gotten wind of an invasion (quite likely given the numbers involved), then he might see the annexation of the Nharov valley as an acceptable risk to get to the Invidian territory, which is ripe for plunder.

Having them get involved because Matton asks is an approach that makes sense, since he can act as a go between being able to cross the border between the two nations in a way that Harkon and Gabrielle can't. It certainly makes more sense to me then them getting involved because Matton just turned on /deserted Gabrielle and she felt there weren't enough wolf themed shapeshifters in her life at the moment....

One big question is though, does Kartakass know that it is at war?

I mean is Harkon raising an army or is he just sending additional wolfweres over the border much like Alfred is doing?

Maybe that's another factor that plays into Harkon not getting the respect he desires, Kartakass has an even smaller population than Invidia, and I can't remember there ever being any talk about it having a standing army unlike Invidia. Maybe Harkon is forced to fight a "shadow war" since he can't honestly explain how Kartakass can have the numbers/soldiers to contribute meaningfully without admitting the entire wolfwere thing?

[thekristhomas]

So if Matton is still with Gabby can we assume the girl was his and that Ardonk and the Gundarakites have since parted company with Gabby? That would make sense of asking Lukas for aid.

so how about this?

Lucita reaches puberty and it becomes obvious that she is in fact a wolfwere, as much in grief as in anger, Ardonk quits Hunadora and leads his Gundarakite forces in a reckless assault on Zeidenburg, almost all are killed

Now desperate for more troops Gabby sends Matton to Lukas to request aid

Lukas rides from village to village rousing the sleepy hamlets to action, soon he has gathered together a small (exceptionally so), poorly equipped, badly trained and exceptionally naïve army that follows Matton to war.

This Kartakaan Expeditionary Force is shadowed on it's journey by the true army a force of wolfweres that the humans think are scouts

The isolated villages of the Nharov Valley (including Lowenturm) fall quickly and the KEF soon believes itself a veteran army

Aderre dispatches the BEF to Valetta while she leads the wolfweres to Curriculo

At Curricolo Lucita is struck by a stray arrow, and dies, it becomes clear that Gabby had used magic to hide the truth from Matton, sacrificing Ardonk's loyalty for Matton's connections.

Matton pulls the wolfweres out of Curriculo, abandoning her and her small retinue to her fate

The battle for Curriculo becomes a living nightmare for Gabby, each ally she sees fall wears the face of her mother, each werewolf she fells wears the face of Bakholis. As she dies, she is certain that she can see her younger self watching, and she realises she has become her mother

[jamesfirecat]

So if Matton is still with Gabby can we assume the girl was his and that Ardonk and the Gundarakites have since parted company with Gabby? That would make sense of asking Lukas for aid.

so how about this?

Lucita reaches puberty and it becomes obvious that she is in fact a wolfwere, as much in grief as in anger, Ardonk quits Hunadora and leads his Gundarakite forces in a reckless assault on Zeidenburg, almost all are killed

Now desperate for more troops Gabby sends Matton to Lukas to request aid

Lukas rides from village to village rousing the sleepy hamlets to action, soon he has gathered together a small (exceptionally so), poorly equipped, badly trained and exceptionally naïve army that follows Matton to war.

This Kartakaan Expeditionary Force is shadowed on it's journey by the true army a force of wolfweres that the humans think are scouts

The isolated villages of the Nharov Valley (including Lowenturm) fall quickly and the KEF soon believes itself a veteran army

Aderre dispatches the BEF to Valetta while she leads the wolfweres to Curriculo

At Curricolo Lucita is struck by a stray arrow, and dies, it becomes clear that Gabby had used magic to hide the truth from Matton, sacrificing Ardonk's loyalty for Matton's connections.

Matton pulls the wolfweres out of Curriculo, abandoning her and her small retinue to her fate

The battle for Curriculo becomes a living nightmare for Gabby, each ally she sees fall wears the face of her mother, each werewolf she fells wears the face of Bakholis. As she dies, she is certain that she can see her younger self watching, and she realises she has become her mother

This is overly complicated, or at least a portion of it is, skip this part

"Lucita reaches puberty and it becomes obvious that she is in fact a wolfwere, as much in grief as in anger, Ardonk quits Hunadora and leads his Gundarakite forces in a reckless assault on Zeidenburg, almost all are killed"

Have things start with Lucita's fatherhood still up in the air, and Ardonk still loyal to her, have Matton go to Kartakass for help simply because Gabrielle sees a weakness in her son's forces (due to many of them being busy invading Borca) and wants to exploit it but needs more soldiers to pull it off...

Only touch on the nature of who is Lucita's father once and do that when it is time for her death and the wolfwere based slaughter that follows for later on. It makes no sense of Gabrielle to "reveal" to Matton "proof" that her daughter is a wolfwere through some sort of magic deception thus greatly weakening her army when she already has Matton believing that without proof because he's so in love with her.

Also meant to mention this earlier, I don't think Bakholis really frightens/guilt trips Gabrielle. He was an incredibly huge jerk who she had ever right to kill given that he had her captured and brought to him to be violated/eaten (possibly both) she'd more likely be afraid of the wolf with Silver Fur (Alfred) who killed her mother, that also ties into making her imagine that she can see her younger self watching her death make far more sense....

The hallucination may even have some grounding in reality if Alfred likes to have his most elite forces paint/dye their fur silver before battle as a way of making it seem like he is everywhere at once/killing far more foes than any one werewolf could (or spread across all his forces as a "uniform" so the werewolves can easily tell themselves apart form the wolfweres), thought that may not be the easiest of things to accomplish since I can't imagine where they'd a good substance to use to achieve that particular color from...

[thekristhomas]

This is overly complicated, or at least a portion of it is, skip this part

"Lucita reaches puberty and it becomes obvious that she is in fact a wolfwere, as much in grief as in anger, Ardonk quits Hunadora and leads his Gundarakite forces in a reckless assault on Zeidenburg, almost all are killed"

Have things start with Lucita's fatherhood still up in the air, and Ardonk still loyal to her, have Matton go to Kartakass for help simply because Gabrielle sees a weakness in her son's forces (due to many of them being busy invading Borca) and wants to exploit it but needs more soldiers to pull it off...

Only touch on the nature of who is Lucita's father once and do that when it is time for her death and the wolfwere based slaughter that follows for later on. It makes no sense of Gabrielle to "reveal" to Matton "proof" that her daughter is a wolfwere through some sort of magic deception thus greatly weakening her army when she already has Matton believing that without proof because he's so in love with her.

Also meant to mention this earlier, I don't think Bakholis really frightens/guilt trips Gabrielle. He was an incredibly huge jerk who she had ever right to kill given that he had her captured and brought to him to be violated/eaten (possibly both) she'd more likely be afraid of the wolf with Silver Fur (Alfred) who killed her mother, that also ties into making her imagine that she can see her younger self watching her death make far more sense....

The hallucination may even have some grounding in reality if Alfred likes to have his most elite forces paint/dye their fur silver before battle as a way of making it seem like he is everywhere at once/killing far more foes than any one werewolf could (or spread across all his forces as a "uniform" so the werewolves can easily tell themselves apart form the wolfweres), thought that may not be the easiest of things to accomplish since I can't imagine where they'd a good substance to use to achieve that particular color from...

OK I can see that I'm not going to get my assault on Zeidenburg

The main problem I have leaving the Lucita reveal til the "end", is that, by the canon timeline it should happen somewhere between 763 and 766, tied as it is to Lucita's puberty. This is very early in our timeframe (763-770) where the fall of Invidia is, I would imagine somewhere towards the end, as it relies on events in Borca, Barovia, Falkovnia and Richemulot to have played out/be reaching a conclusion.

With regards Bakholis, I don't think her visions of him are to do with guilt or fear, but a reminder of her beginnings, and as such an indicator of the circular nature of her life, just as the visions of the Silver Wolf tearing at her mother are not about guilt, though they do inspire guilt, they are about showing her that she and her mother are the same.

For myself, this has always been Gabby's real problem, she doesn't flee from a mirror because it's showing her age, she rejects it because it's showing her that she's turning into her mother, and how many of us haven't been shocked to glance in a mirror and see one of our parents looking back.

I like the idea of a uniform, don't over think it, a lime-wash over black fur would produce a matte grey, not silver, granted, but close enough for a battle and our purposes, and seems entirely appropriate for the faux barbarian thing that Alfred's got going on

[jamesfirecat]

OK I can see that I'm not going to get my assault on Zeidenburg

The main problem I have leaving the Lucita reveal til the "end", is that, by the canon timeline it should happen somewhere between 763 and 766, tied as it is to Lucita's puberty. This is very early in our timeframe (763-770) where the fall of Invidia is, I would imagine somewhere towards the end, as it relies on events in Borca, Barovia, Falkovnia and Richemulot to have played out/be reaching a conclusion.

With regards Bakholis, I don't think her visions of him are to do with guilt or fear, but a reminder of her beginnings, and as such an indicator of the circular nature of her life, just as the visions of the Silver Wolf tearing at her mother are not about guilt, though they do inspire guilt, they are about showing her that she and her mother are the same.

For myself, this has always been Gabby's real problem, she doesn't flee from a mirror because it's showing her age, she rejects it because it's showing her that she's turning into her mother, and how many of us haven't been shocked to glance in a mirror and see one of our parents looking back.

I like the idea of a uniform, don't over think it, a lime-wash over black fur would produce a matte grey, not silver, granted, but close enough for a battle and our purposes, and seems entirely appropriate for the faux barbarian thing that Alfred's got going on

Then go ahead and have Gabrielle using magic with Matton (after her daughter is old enough to semi understand what is going on) and how important it is to "play games" with "Uncle Matton" (dear god that must be awkward for Lucita, maybe Gabrielle just trained/told her to refer to both of them by first name so she neither ended hearing her call the other "Pappa/Father/Daddy/Similar") to convince him that she's a wolfwere, but only does this with him in private. After all she obviously can't go around revealing she's a wolfwere in public for the same reason he hasn't....

It's only buying herself time until the inevitable truth comes out, but buying herself time is probably a pretty attractive option when her son is at his weakest and if she can just hold this patchwork rebellion together a little longer she might actually be able to pull it off.... In short, don't have her willingly give up the game/admit who her daughter's father is to anyone, even if she knows.



Because even if Gabrielle knows for sure, she would still want to drag both of them along as long as she possibly could, and given that Matton is madly in love with her, she probably could keep him from realizing that Lucita only shows wolfwere traits/powers when Gabrielle is around.

You interpretation of why she hates mirrors is interesting, I think I still prefer mine, but it is a perfectly valid/reasonable interpretation of cannon.

Yeah, given their habit of dancing around with feathers in their fur I assumed that Alfred is the type who would probably send his werewolves off to battle with some kind of "warpaint" on, though aiming for actual proper silver is probably beyond his reach so he'll settle for more down to earth colors so long as they are easy enough to come by/replicate.

[thekristhomas]

It's only buying herself time until the inevitable truth comes out, but buying herself time is probably a pretty attractive option when her son is at his weakest and if she can just hold this patchwork rebellion together a little longer she might actually be able to pull it off.... In short, don't have her willingly give up the game/admit who her daughter's father is to anyone, even if she knows.

Maybe if we nailed down the dates of the other events a bit more, we'd have a better idea of when the earliest the Invidian "finale" could be and how long she'd have to keep up the charade.

Changing focus a little, Alfred Timothy's motivations might be becoming a bit clearer to me. Alfred is expansionist, so the opportunity would probably be enough for him to want to act. I'm thinking that a good number of the werewolves in Verbrek would be descended from Bakholis (no real reason to think that from canon sources) and even those that aren't have some notion of respect for the local legendary werewolf king, so Castle Loupet would probably have symbolic significance, and capturing it might increase Alfred's status in some quarters.

More importantly for Alfred, Karina & Curriculo are both haunts of Nathan Timothy, maybe he hopes to force a confrontation?

[jamesfirecat]

Maybe if we nailed down the dates of the other events a bit more, we'd have a better idea of when the earliest the Invidian "finale" could be and how long she'd have to keep up the charade.

Changing focus a little, Alfred Timothy's motivations might be becoming a bit clearer to me. Alfred is expansionist, so the opportunity would probably be enough for him to want to act. I'm thinking that a good number of the werewolves in Verbrek would be descended from Bakholis (no real reason to think that from canon sources) and even those that aren't have some notion of respect for the local legendary werewolf king, so Castle Loupet would probably have symbolic significance, and capturing it might increase Alfred's status in some quarters.

More importantly for Alfred, Karina & Curriculo are both haunts of Nathan Timothy, maybe he hopes to force a confrontation?

Honestly Alfred probably personally thinks that Bakholis (if he's heard the legend of him) was a poser, remember he wasn't a natural werewolf he was a maladictive werewolf. What's more he was a maladictive who never seemed to have a hybrid form or be able to actually control himself when he transformed, and instead simply enjoyed giving into the mindless rage of the beast.

I'm not so sure on there being a bunch of werewolves descended from Bakholis, if only for the reason that he probably killed most of the people who he wolfed out on, and those werewolves who answered to him directly mostly got purged by the revolution that followed his death, though I suppose there could be some that managed to flee into Verbrek but they'd probably be roundly mocked, derided and demoted/held in Omega status by the more "country" werewolves of Verbrek who hunt and kill for food while those Invidian werewolves were living in castles with servants...

Actually that's probably Alfred's problem with Bakholis writ large, Bakholis insisted on ruling like a human rather than like a wolf...

Alfred probably wants to take the castle because honestly there are few places better named for a werewolf to conquer/rule from than Castle Loupet (well maybe somewhere in Falkovnia there's a Castle Wolfenstine) and he does like the idea of expanding his borders, but given that there are still humans in Verbrek it will be interesting to see if he can manage to hang onto any territory he takes against a determined human army that wants to claim it... assuming such a thing arises....

[thekristhomas]

Maybe if we nailed down the dates of the other events a bit more, we'd have a better idea of when the earliest the Invidian "finale" could be and how long she'd have to keep up the charade.

Changing focus a little, Alfred Timothy's motivations might be becoming a bit clearer to me. Alfred is expansionist, so the opportunity would probably be enough for him to want to act. I'm thinking that a good number of the werewolves in Verbrek would be descended from Bakholis (no real reason to think that from canon sources) and even those that aren't have some notion of respect for the local legendary werewolf king, so Castle Loupet would probably have symbolic significance, and capturing it might increase Alfred's status in some quarters.

More importantly for Alfred, Karina & Curriculo are both haunts of Nathan Timothy, maybe he hopes to force a confrontation?

Honestly Alfred probably personally thinks that Bakholis (if he's heard the legend of him) was a poser, remember he wasn't a natural werewolf he was a maladictive werewolf. What's more he was a maladictive who never seemed to have a hybrid form or be able to actually control himself when he transformed, and instead simply enjoyed giving into the mindless rage of the beast.

I'm not so sure on there being a bunch of werewolves descended from Bakholis, if only for the reason that he probably killed most of the people who he wolfed out on, and those werewolves who answered to him directly mostly got purged by the revolution that followed his death, though I suppose there could be some that managed to flee into Verbrek but they'd probably be roundly mocked, derided and demoted/held in Omega status by the more "country" werewolves of Verbrek who hunt and kill for food while those Invidian werewolves were living in castles with servants...

Actually that's probably Alfred's problem with Bakholis writ large, Bakholis insisted on ruling like a human rather than like a wolf...

Alfred probably wants to take the castle because honestly there are few places better named for a werewolf to conquer/rule from than Castle Loupet (well maybe somewhere in Falkovnia there's a Castle Wolfenstine) and he does like the idea of expanding his borders, but given that there are still humans in Verbrek it will be interesting to see if he can manage to hang onto any territory he takes against a determined human army that wants to claim it... assuming such a thing arises....

I imagined it would be amongst the "sheepskinners" that it held significance, mostly.

Not that it effects anything, but I wonder, what would Loupet under Alfred look like? IIRC the castle is largely ruins, and it would seem to be against Alfreds primitivist philosophy to rebuild, so I'm imagining an encampment inside the walls, bivouacs and lean-to shelters, guards posted on partially ruined towers. The keep would, I guess, be a roofless shell, but I can see Alfred having some sort of "throne" constructed to emphasise his status.

Am I picturing that wrong? Did Malochio rebuild Loupet? I suppose even if he did, plenty of damage could have been caused storming the place