The War in the Core

[thekristhomas]

Let's put Falkovnia down for a moment.

In the East, in the Gaz timeframe, there is the growing possibility of a schism in the Iron Faith and subsequent holy war.

This thread's timeframe is further ahead than this, so how do we see this panning out?

to recap the issues, the Himmelsk Naeve is insisting that the church in Hazlan maintain a hard line against arcane magic, the Pave of Hazlan has thus far failed to act on this.

Given that it is almost impossible for the Hazlani church to fulfill it's orders and survive Hazlik's inevitably violent response, it seems like the Himmelsk Naeve is pushing the Hazlani faithful into a corner, where they must either break with their mother church or face annihilation.

It's possible that the Himmelsk Naeve hopes to incite a holy war against Hazlik, thereby removing an embarrassing dissonance within the church dogma, namely that they support the authority of a man they also claim to be a blasphemer.

How might a war against Hazlan play out?

Who might try and stop the Himelsk Naeve's plan? The Pave of Hazlan doesn't want to schism the church, but there's little he can do about it from his position. Might Malken want to see this plan fail, as he is invested in the Hazlani opium trade?

As the plan relies heavily on the Himmelsk Naeve's control over orthodoxy, it would seem that were he to perish his plan might perish with him

[thekristhomas]

It seems to me that a war against Hazlan would potentially be disastrous for Nova Vaasa, as Othmar understands little of the nature of DLs, and would probably underestimate Hazlik's potency.

Given that Malken does understand the nature of DLs, and he controls the largest Hazlani opium trading network in the core, it seems likely to me that he might oppose the war, and therefore seek to arrange the assassination of the Himmelsk Naeve.

If this were the case, who might the replacement be?

[jamesfirecat]

It seems to me that a war against Hazlan would potentially be disastrous for Nova Vaasa, as Othmar understands little of the nature of DLs, and would probably underestimate Hazlik's potency.

Given that Malken does understand the nature of DLs, and he controls the largest Hazlani opium trading network in the core, it seems likely to me that he might oppose the war, and therefore seek to arrange the assassination of the Himmelsk Naeve.

If this were the case, who might the replacement be?

"No: Vistani, no horses, no horses: no trade: no trade, : no money, no money: no economy, no economy: no us..."

Paraphrasing Malken from Enemy Within as best as I can recall.

Malken would probably escalate things to the brink of war after doing whatever he can to start stockpiling the goods and services that a war is going to drive up the prices of, but at the same time I very much imagine he'll have a way to "pull the rip chord" on the whole ordeal if it come time to wrap up the war sooner than either side might expect, and through surpticious channels he'll probably be ready to make another killing buying up and selling off all this military surplus Both sides have and may no longer need quite so much of,


Of course on big question is, Tristen is not the Dark Lord of Nova Vassa, Malken is.

Is Tristen allowed to leave the domain while he is in control?

If he is what happens when Malken takes over (is Malken transported back to Darkhaven by the Darkpowers just to keep things orderly and neat?)


If Tristen can not cross the borders, what happens when/if Othmar orders him to lead a force of nights into Hazlan and Tristen himself hits a brick wall at the border? I have a hard time imagining he could come up with any excuse/explanation Othmar would accept,

[Resonant Curse]

Tristen would probably have enough witnesses from his soldiers to back him, but it might lead to some weird investigations by wizards, etc to see what "curse" is stopping him.

[thekristhomas]

It seems to me that a war against Hazlan would potentially be disastrous for Nova Vaasa, as Othmar understands little of the nature of DLs, and would probably underestimate Hazlik's potency.

Given that Malken does understand the nature of DLs, and he controls the largest Hazlani opium trading network in the core, it seems likely to me that he might oppose the war, and therefore seek to arrange the assassination of the Himmelsk Naeve.

If this were the case, who might the replacement be?

"No: Vistani, no horses, no horses: no trade: no trade, : no money, no money: no economy, no economy: no us..."

Paraphrasing Malken from Enemy Within as best as I can recall.

Malken would probably escalate things to the brink of war after doing whatever he can to start stockpiling the goods and services that a war is going to drive up the prices of, but at the same time I very much imagine he'll have a way to "pull the rip chord" on the whole ordeal if it come time to wrap up the war sooner than either side might expect, and through surpticious channels he'll probably be ready to make another killing buying up and selling off all this military surplus Both sides have and may no longer need quite so much of,


Of course on big question is, Tristen is not the Dark Lord of Nova Vassa, Malken is.

Is Tristen allowed to leave the domain while he is in control?

If he is what happens when Malken takes over (is Malken transported back to Darkhaven by the Darkpowers just to keep things orderly and neat?)


If Tristen can not cross the borders, what happens when/if Othmar orders him to lead a force of nights into Hazlan and Tristen himself hits a brick wall at the border? I have a hard time imagining he could come up with any excuse/explanation Othmar would accept,

I'm reasonably certain that Tristen would get stopped by the border, if he did try to cross, but I think it likely that as Faerhaaven is at the far end of Nova Vaasa from Hazlan, it would be one of the southern lords leading the charge.(YMMV)

Something else to keep in mind is that Tristen is an old man by the time of the gaz, it might be very soon that he dies and the curse gets passed on.

I agree that Malken would probably profiteer from any conflict the Vaasi find themselves in, but it seems to me that ANY war would be better for him than one against Hazlan as it must surely disrupt the flow of opium.

With that in mind, might he allow all the sabre rattling and the military build up, but then replace the Himmelsk Naeve with a pro Hazlani priest? (if such a priest even exists)

Another possibility might be that Vaasi aggression is redirected before the situation in Hazlan can come to a head.

I know this might be being a bit "meta" but if Nova Vaasa doesn't come out of this relatively unscathed, then an assault against Barovia, with the resources and planning that would entail, seems unlikely.

Unless._. hang on I've had an idea._.

EDIT

The Nova Vaasa entries in the gaz date 758, now the problem in the Iron Faith has been brewing since 741 when Hazlik opened the Red Academy, and the gaz notes the build up of royal forces on the border with Tepest, so it would seem I was wrong in my earlier assertion that the schism(or lack thereof) would occur before the events we are discussing, my apologies.

So it would seem that either Vaasi aggression is being redirected, or the planned invasion of Tepest is being seen as practice or a warm up. Either way the Tepestani war happens first, and quite early within our timeframe.

Now, that really does cause a problem for Tristen, not just because as lord of Faerhaaven I would expect him to be amongst the leaders of the invasion, thereby exposing his inability to cross the border, but also one of loyalty, as he is regarded as something of a national hero by the Tepestani.

A possible solution to his crossing the border might come from him being quite old, as he attempts to cross, he is struck by pain that everybody assumes to be a heart attack or stroke, it is unlikey IMHO that anyone would associate his collapse with the border as it has IIRC no features that mark it as such.

As a result Tristen would be not present to be a moderating force for good in the invasion.

[Mistmaster]

You can circumvent that in this way, Tristen is not the Darklord, Malken is, so he won't be bothered by the border.

[thekristhomas]

Do we know the actual canon on whether Tristen can cross the border? I know that canon on Tristen and Nova Vaasa is tricky what with all the different versions of both, but I feel like we would know if he had ever visited another domain

[Mistmaster]

In my opinion it's a case were the imprisonment of a Darklord is circumstazial and not explicit; Malken do not leave Nova Vaasa, because of his obsession with Tristen, and viceversa, Tristen won't leave because he is chasing his mortal enemy. If ordered, Tristan will leave.

[thekristhomas]

On Facebook it was suggested that if Tristen attempted to cross the border Malken would take over, now that would be a major problem during an invasion with witnesses aplenty.

The way I see it, Tristen isn't the Darklord but he is where the Darklord lives, so he can't cross the border anymore than a coffin containing Strahd could. Malken doesn't cease to exist when Tristen is in control, he is trapped inside.YMMV

I don't think the DPs would forcefully expose Malken in the way described above either, IMHO it would undermine the Darklord's curse too much if his dualistic nature was revealed, again YMMV

So, unless anyone has a canonical reference (I'd take semi canonical tbh, because Nova Vaasa is so tricksy that canon is hard to nail down) that clarifies the issues I propose we continue using the following scenario.

The responsibility for leading the Vaasi invasion force weighed heavily on Sir Tristen, and all could see it, a nameless dread came over him whenever he surveyed the border, which fed his misgivings over the coming "intervention" and in the days leading up to the assault the old knight seemed more and more troubled. It was still a shock when the apoplexy struck just as the knight was marching his troops across the border. Superstitious soldiers thought it an ill omen for the war to come, that the realms most notable knight be struck low before the first arrow had been loosed, but Prince Othmar urged them onwards, secretly quite pleased that he would not be hampered by the sanctimonious old fool during his triumph.

[thekristhomas]

If Tristen cannot attend the invasion, would he send one of the Hiregaard scions in his stead? which one?

[thekristhomas]

If Tristen cannot attend the invasion, would he send one of the Hiregaard scions in his stead? which one?

Been looking through the Hiregaards and I noticed Myar, the youngest of Tristen's three sons, was the Vaasi ambassador to Darkon. Given that the purpose of the invasion is to open up a new trade road with Darkon, I feel that Myar must be involved in some way, even if he is just reassuring the Darkonian government that all is well.

Speaking of Darkon, Azalin has already opened the Strygos Road through the Mountains of Misery, presumably in part to open up the territory gained during the GC, but also because the topologically easier route through Tepest would bring him into conflict with the Sisters Three, who we know from FoD he has had some dealings with. The opening of a new road, which would by pass his mountainous territory would, l imagine, irritate him somewhat.

That being said it might not irritate him enough to do anything about it, he is a busy king after all. Looking at the map, it would seem that the most sensible route for the road to take would be North from Kelee through the Wretchwood, then they might try to follow the River of Tears through Keening, as there is a stretch of cleared land that a surveyor might find appealing. Should the barrens of Keening not appeal then the road would need to ford or otherwise cross the River of Tears and instead follow the river after it has confluenced with the Corvus River and follow it to Mayvin. The road would therefore also bypass Tempe Falls.

This might also give us some idea as to what Myar might be doing, someone has to have negotiated construction at the Darkonian end. Perhaps this might be one of the reasons that the Vaasi administration is becoming frustrated, if the gnomes of Mayvin have cooperated with Myar, the necessary purchases made, the money spent, but the road remains incomplete due to Tepestani failings, maybe those Vaasi who speculated on the construction need to see a return.

Again, looking at the map, I wonder if the Vaasi forces might actually use the Strygos Road to access northern Tepest, as it is likely that they will require a bridge over the River of Tears then might they send an advance unit of engineers north to the source of the river, to then follow it down to a suitable location to construct the crossing. In fact I like this as an early battle in the wider conflict, the engineer's camp is assaulted by a goblin horde while working on the bridge ("Goblins sah! Fahsands of 'em") which could be the push the Vaasi need to move "peacekeepers" into the territory.

[thekristhomas]

OK so thinking about a timeline:

The Vaasi press ahead with construction of the Darkonian end of the road, Myar Hiregaard organizes gnome engineers from Mayvin to construct two of the three bridges needed to cross the tributaries of the Corvus River, and asks for Vaasi military engineers to build the third, which crosses the River of Tears in northern Tepest. These bridges account for the majority of expenditure on the road as a whole.

The Vaasi Engineers Corps use the Strygos Road, such as it is, to reach the source of the river and follow it to a suitable site for the bridge construction. They erect a rough pallisade and begin work, timber is plentiful and work progresses well.

At the Kellee end of the road construction has ground to a halt a few miles out of town, Vaasi loggers have been disappearing, some taken by goblins, some run off afeared. The delays and costs of replacements begin to eat into the coffers.

The Vaasi move troops to the Tepestani border (as described in the gaz) The less hawkish in the Vaasi administration hope that this will "encourage" the Tepestani to handle their goblin problem.

The ongoing difficulties at the Kellee end seem to end, work starts again and no goblin raids occur.

The bridge over the River of Tears is completed, and the VEC turn their minds to constructing the northern section of road to Mayvin.

That evening as the VEC happily survey their creation, a screaming horde of goblins descend upon them, the fighting is fierce, but the VEC are killed to a man.

Several of the goblin tribes remain in the area of the "Bridge to Nowhere" after the horde has dispersed, they take up residency in the bridge itself as well as the ruined pallisade and soon fall to squabbling (possible adventure?)

When the raids begin again on the workers at the Kellee end, with some of the raiders sporting trophies taken from the VEC, the Vaasi realise that they have lost their advance unit.

This is what spurs the Vaasi into action and Othmar orders his troops into Kellee to sort out the goblin problem, once and for all.

While certainly not welcomed by the Tepestani, the Vaasi force is treated cordially enough. The Tepestani understand that the Vaasi are only interested in the road, and the presence of a Hiregaard (which one?) helps reassure them.

The initial detente, however, was never going to last long. Interestingly though, it is the Vaasi camp followers that are the unwitting instigators of unrest, when several of their number offer their services to some Tepestani men, there then follows a cultural miscommunication of epic proportions.

In attempting to explain their proposal to the Tepestani men, in broken Tepesti, the Vaasi whores use a euphemism common to their nation, by referring to themselves as "nymphs of the pave", an unfortunate choice given the Tepestani relation to the fey. Terrified the Tepestani men fled from them, spreading wild tales of the Vaasi consorting with fey, and giving the Tepestani Inquisition the excuse they needed to get involved.

Unfortunately for the followers of Belenus, the Vaasi are difficult to intimidate, they have their own Inquisition after all, and the wild eyed accusations of a peasant priest seem amateurish in comparison to the cold unrelenting monolith that is the Iron Faith. The Tepestani demands that their Inquisition be granted access to the Vaasi camp are ignored and unrest begins to simmer.

The Tepestani, while proud, know enough to know that they can't defeat the Vaasi, and after the opening gambit of intimidation fails, the Inquisition attempts to open diplomatic channels, the Hiregaard (again which one?) is instrumental in this and persuades the leader of the Vaasi Expeditionary Force (who I'm thinking might be the Count of Ehrendton, as Tristen in unavailable) to meet with a delegation from the Tepestani, to hear their concerns.

In preparing the delegation Wyan of Viktal tells them "If the Vaasi stands to meet you, he is a reasonable man, if he does not, he does not intend to listen", fortunately the Count does rise. Unfortunately, Finn, emboldened, takes the Count by the arm and attempts to shake his hand. Incensed by this peasants insolence the Vaasi noble kills him on the spot (too much? would a thrashing be enough to start a war? maybe the Count should cut off Finn's ear?)

With formal hostilities declared Othmar himself takes charge, Kellee, being essentially already occupied declares it's surrender directly to the Prince, in a carefully stage managed ceremony. Semi-spontaneously the Tepestani official names Othmar "the Conqueror", Othmar encourages it to stick.

[thekristhomas]

knocked this up

[thekristhomas]

It seems to me that this conflict is and would be somewhat defined by bridges, not only as the cause/excuse for war, but as Vaasi cavalry are of little use in the dense forest, control of the roads, and therefore the bridges is vital to their success. From the Tepestani side also, as they are massively out numbered if they have any chance they have to make use of the choke points that the bridges provide.

Vaasi are blue, Tepestani are black

With the previous point in mind, this map shows the first main combat between the two human forces as occurring at the river crossing. I'm imagining a possible burning of bridges at this point, in all senses.

If the Tepestani were isolated in the west, would the Vaasi feel the need to press on? or would they settle into their task of constructing the road?

The Tepestani are stuck between a rock and a hard place, or the Shadow Rift and the Vaasi cavalry if metaphor's not your thing. I can't help wondering how desperate they might become without outside assistance. The infusion of Belenus worshipers from Nidala seems a bit like the Circles involvement in Falkovnia, and I'm not sure that works now.

They way I'm starting to see it is that the Tepestani only really have a chance if they make a deal with one or more of three groups, Witches, Hags or Fey, oh my.

[thekristhomas]

It would be true to form (and therefore possibly "on the nose") for the invasion to be foiled by the activities of the Darklords. Indeed, as Vaasi troops are already engaged in combat with the goblins, it would certainly be a simple thing for the invaders to kill goblins until the Sisters Three became infuriated by the loss of servitors and struck against them decisively. Perhaps because it is so facile, I tend against it.

By my reckoning the Sisters have been encouraging hostilities from the get go, it was their goblins incursions that precipitated events, after all. What do they hope to gain? IMHO they just get off on the chaos, but maybe the Tepestani Inquisition has actually managed to luck into some effective means of curtailing their activities and the Hags need that stopped.

It would be most beneficial (and therefore not very Ravenloft) If the Tepestani Inquisition were able to come to an understanding with the witches of Hala, who even if they are small in number (though, I'd imagine greater in number than the Inquisition believed) wield power which could turn the tide. If only they could get passed their misunderstandings they could not only defeat the invaders but also threaten the power of the Sisters, and that's kinda the point isn't it? The Tepestani aren't likely to be getting over any misunderstandings any time soon.

For their part, I think the followers of Hala would assist in the defence of the country as much as they could, without revealing their presence. That would severely hamper their ability to help, it would require a full amnesty to truly get the most from the witches, and that's not likely.

Which leaves the possibility that the Tepestani Inquistion, or someone from their side, in desperation turns to the very fey that they have been hunting for aid, damning themselves in the process of course...