How do you portray Van Richten, Watermay-Foxgrove, And VRS?

[Nox]

As title says, i'm gonna introduce my player to VRS. They will meet Van Richten soon, and even though i read a lot about him, i dont really know how to portray/introduce him when I roleplay.
I thought he should be a grim and gritty old man, that always seem to keep some disgraceful and sinister secret for himself. But I thought he could also be played as a kind old man, always willing to help (but in what extent? How much he would help the players?), since he's a renown hero.

Actually we are playing the Touch of Death, and i think i'll (re)introduce VR after this adventure ends (when the party will go back to Core).
At the beginning of the campaign they received a letter inviting them to meet W.F. (Watermay-Foxgrove) of VRS. Honestly i want my player to get involved in VR adventures, so I will introduce Watermay-Foxgrove but they will not be the central mentor for the player. I'd rather prefer if VR himself will be a mentor for the party, but i'm not sure how much help should he give to the players. What do you think? How do you handle mentors in general? I dont want mentors to be the "panic button" of the party, that they press when they are in troubles. Last time they met VR (during our previous campaign) they deliberately asked his help to catch a great werebear. I was unsure about what to do. VR is a good man, always looking for help others and fight evil, so Role-wise he should've accepted that request, although I did not want to have VR do all the job and steal the scene from the party, so i just had him injured (level drained) and I had him giving some advice on how to hunt down the beast and cater the party with some herbs and traps for the occasion. I did not like how it went out cause my players did not put much trust into VR (since i portrayed him badly, they did not trust him as the hero they heard about). I really wanted them to see him as the hero he is, but i did not want to have him do all the job.

I would like to let them know how strong and prepared VR(and other important NPC in general) is, without giving them the chance to abuse the thing to overcome their own challenges.
I dont like the "You see an old man fighting a giant monster and he slay the monster like a hot knife cut a fresh butter", because it's not ravenloft (And VR usually beats his enemies with intellect rather than brute force). In ravenloft AFAIK monsters are terrible creatures that threatens everyone including the most expert of monster hunters. I dont want to make monster resemble other High fantasy settings, where heroes look out to fight dragons just for their own honor, but at the same time I dont want to make Mentors and other powerful characters look like a random farmer with a magic sword trying to survive that monster. I hope you get what I mean.

How do you introduce those character in your campaigns? what role did you give them and how did they interact with the party?

TL;DR
I need some advice on how to present and portray mentors and important character in a way that the player will understand they are powerful and famous (so that the party will look for them and they will be engaged with those characters and their quest-line) but they will not ask for their active help and/or try to abuse the fact they know the hero.

To me it's pretty logic, if I meet Elminster in faerun i will not ask him to help me fight those kobolds in the woods, but i may ask him some advices. But obviously that's just me, other people sometime try to make their challenge easier.

I was thinking I could pre-introduce VR from the next session with a bard or something similar telling a story aout one of his advernture. This will lead to a "mini-WOAH" when they will meet the man from that story later on. What do you think?
Feel free to give me any impression on how to introduce and tie those character to the plot and to the party.
Thanks in advance

[Mistmaster]

Well, the old man in the Inn could point out casually that a reasonig the characters are doing is wrong, showing insights they did not suspect.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Yeah, this is a problem I've faced too. You want Van Richten to earn his reputation as the greatest monster hunter in the land but:

1) his hunting strategy is based on research and knowledge of monsters and their weaknesses. So it's hard to showcase, as it's not flashy or badass.
2) he is cursed to lose people in his party, so that kind of taints his image as "the greatest"
3) You don't want him to be able to do the PCs' work for them, and have to make excuses for why he won't, Elminster-style.
4) many of the canon adventures that involve him (in Chilling Tales, and again in Bleak House) involve him being tricked, captured, or otherwise incapacitated and in need of saving.

I'm not sure I've been 100% successful in what I've done to fix this, but...

1) I've had him show up at just the right moment while the PCs are fighting something to impart a bit of strategic advice as to their foe's weakness, allowing them to win
2) I've tried to emphasize that the people he's lost died heroically, and often after several successful hunts.
3) I try to keep him busy. They meet up with him when he's on the way to or from another monster hunt, and can't help with whatever the PCs are facing, except with some quick advice.
4) I've only had them rescue him once so far, trying not to overuse that trope, but I will be doing Bleak House eventually. I just hope I've built him up enough that it will be truly "oh how the mighty have fallen" and not "timmy fell down the well again? remind me: Why are we supposed to respect him?"


I haven't yet used the W-F twins or VRS, as Van Richten is still active at this time in my campaign and the twins are still children.

[Chaot]

In my head, Van Richten is a lot like Kurt Vonnegut. Both amazing writers. Both have seen horror in their lifetime. Both relatively wise men. Van Richten routinely engages with the infernal forces of his world, Vonnegut engages with the eternal foibles of human kind. I think they both have a bit of humor regarding their position in life.

As Gonzoron says, Richten is an independent actor and not eager to interfere with the parties affairs. I wouldn't even use him as a direct source of information but more as a signpost telling the PCs to investigate a certain aspect of something. "How do we kill the bolgermeister?" "I wouldn't know anything about that. Of course, there was the old story of Jenny Green Teeth... They say Jenny and Bolger knew each other very well." Something like that.

[The Lesser Evil]

I think the important thing about Van Richten is not to buy into the in-world hype about him. He's been a little bit of everywhere and done a little bit of everything as the setting darling, but he's know primarily because he networks and he writes things down. Van Richten's knowledge is hard-earned because he's made a lot of mistakes and I mean a lot of them (even outside of Chilling Tales.) VR is different from Elminister in that he's very human and fallible and not by straight up might the most powerful adventurer out there. Some of the Van Richten Guides have in-character mistakes and misconceptions, use these as examples of how he's not 100% reliable on monster lore.

As for being a mentor, there's a few general things about mentorship:
1) remember the purpose of being a mentor is kinda like being a parent or any other teacher: helping them prepare for when they're ready to go out on their own. As such, in the beginning there might be more of a learning curve. He may help more at the outset, but as time goes on, the student will be asked to pick up more of the slack. And of course, being students means taking assignments, so VR may start loading them up with additional responsibilities. (Of course, if they've gone through Night of the Walking Dead and Touch of Death, they're not exactly wet behind the ears.
2) Every mentor has their own hang-ups. For example, VR thinks all lycanthropes are or will become evil. VR is Lawful Good and advocates some things that more pragmatic parties might balk at (destroying any magical items found in lich lairs or disdaining "grave robbery" for example.)
3) In many shows and stories, the mentor/student relationship is a bumpy one, with personality clash. What VR thinks and tells them to do may not line up with what they want to do.
4) Listening. An often neglected but vitally important skill is not merely speaking or advising but also actively listening, reflecting ideas, showing you are following the conversation, asking the occasional question. If they ask a question, you can phrase a reply in such a way that it gets them to reflect upon their own ideas and come up with their own solution. Here's a possible conversation (Put in a spoiler so as not to sideline the responses, not because it is an actual spoiler)

VIEW CONTENT:

PC:"Hey VR, what do you think about the weakness of this shadow fey?"
VR: "Well, [PC], from what you've told me you've already tried X and Y but you said you still haven't tried Z. Tell me about that."
PC: "Well, we have some hangups with Z. Here's the problem...
VR: "I see. That does put a damper on things. What are some ideas on how we might get around that?"

[Nox]

Thanks all, if you have any other insight i'm thirsty for anything can help me getting more into the mentor role, since it would be my first time (usually my player learn thing on their skin)

[The Lesser Evil]

Thanks all, if you have any other insight i'm thirsty for anything can help me getting more into the mentor role, since it would be my first time (usually my player learn thing on their skin)

We could start with how you might introduce him first. You've already come up with a way you might razzle-dazzle them (via a story of some kind.) What are some things that might make your players say "WOW" and make the story relevant to their PCs' experiences?

[Nox]

Thanks all, if you have any other insight i'm thirsty for anything can help me getting more into the mentor role, since it would be my first time (usually my player learn thing on their skin)

We could start with how you might introduce him first. You've already come up with a way you might razzle-dazzle them (via a story of some kind.) What are some things that might make your players say "WOW" and make the story relevant to their PCs' experiences?

To be honest i dont know how to introduce him. All my player come from a relatively high fantasy settings, so they are used to hear epic hero/mentor description with a very explicit demonstration of power.
As we stated before, RL is not the place for such things (maybe once in a while, but VR would not be the man for this kind of introduction).
Actually the one suggested by Mistmaster is by far the best I can think of .
I'm not good at introducing npc, I admit I still need to improve at that.
As you probably know we are playing the Hexad, and we are going to finish Touch of death soon. I was thinking to introduce Van richten during the next adventure (Feast of goblyns), but I dont know much about the adventure yet and thus i dont know how to introduce him.
I dont think there is a standard rule to make someone say "wow". I think that the first impression is very important, so i should portray VR and other important hero/mentors in general in a way that the player will respect them and so they can understand who they are really facing. I dont want them to witness a fight 'cause it will be boring, and a cliche.
If the first impression will impress ( ) them they will remember the Npc, moreover they will be interested in getting more info on the NPC and his story.
On how to make the Npc relevant for their pc story, i'm lost aswell.
I'm bad at this thing, and I dont know how to improve . Halp

Edit: I forgot to mention that i'd like to make PCs part of the VRS (or a society in general, they can also found one of their own if they wish) so there will always be an easy way to give them objective and quests to complete. This is important, i dont know how did I forgot that, lol. OFcourse if I want them to enter VRS they must respect VR and i need to find a way to have them really intrigued about the society and their affairs. I was thinking to change the society a little in a way that the VRS has some base around the core and various member. I'd like to make VRS a more stable society, something like a guild. Something like the Ebon fold. Not evil, but good. I dont know if I've been clear enough, it's late here and i'm a bit mesy .

[Dark Angel]

An odd twist on the introduction of Van Richten? Have the players get bested by a monster that captures them (vampire/ghost/werecreature for food source, mummy/lich for rituals, golem for curiosity's sake) when the group uses conventional methods (hack and slash, combat spell use, etc) that obviously don't/didn't work. Then let them think they're done for when the sole survivor (Van Richten) of the rescue party finds them and frees them. Maybe the monster isn't destroyed or defeated and Van Richten needs them to escape. How did the Doctor best the monster? Using his research and the creature's weakness to do what the players could not. Show them that his ways are good and can be used to overcome powerful foes. He could then begin a relationship that has him calling on the PCs for assistance as well as seeking advice from the good doctor themselves. A written correspondence could be established too if the players have a semi permanent base of operations in a more modern realm. If they get adventure seeds and clues early on, they can write Van Richten and get some information with out him being involved. Longer term adventures work best (full moon werewolves, ghost with time limits, etc).

I tried finding something about a real life person I always modeled Van Richten after (Dr. Richard Gabriel, American war veteran who is a Canadian university professor now). He was a soldier during Vietnam and has a very mild mannered subtlety about him while coming across as well informed. He has been on many programs on the History Channel and most are unaware of him in general. If you would like more information about him, personal message me.

[Five]

Personally, if I were to use Van Richten as a mentor for my PCs then I would bend Van Richten around them in accordance to their group philosophy, or, overall "alignment".

As an example, I would have zero issues with turning Van Richten into a fictional frontman, the creation of a good-intentioned group of monster hunters (the VRS) that are desperately needing to beef up their numbers but who will do anything to continue their war against the Dark. Including tugging on heartstrings for that emotional connection. Here the "introduction" is a personalised series of letters (letters from Santa) with live/real support members that check up on the group, or a magically-disguised member of the VRS (in a higher fantasy setting). As time goes on you can throw in the occasional slip of the tongue, slightly different mannerisms, and other such subtle clues for the PCS to pick up on. How they'll react once the mask is torn away is the fun part...

Or, play Van Richten as an old man who can do naught but run the show behind the scenes. He's simply too old. But his mind is as sharp as ever so he commands the VRS, from a hidden location that only the top agents know about, due to the nature of their mission/work (flipping over rocks to reveal what doesn't want to be revealed). Again, personalised letters of advice (legit) are sent to the PCs with a frequency that matches their exploits. Slowly they can work their way up through the ranks and perhaps meet this man in person. This example is more for discipline-minded/militant PCs.

Van Richten could be played "straight" (from the box, so to speak), and any number of situations might warrant a face-to-face. The PCs run into him out in the wilderness, where he is currently searching for a rare herb. Campfire talk leads to swapping of information and a loose (at first) alliance is forged...

The PCs, during one of their expeditions, hear the sounds of a pitched (And very horrific) battle up ahead. They get there, are given a very clear indication as to which side to take, and are ultimately "forced" into replacing Van Richten's fallen comrades (VRS?). After the victory, in large part due to the good doctor's battle instructions to the PCs, a bond is formed. Impressed with how they handled themselves, VR offers them his knowledge of the Dark and how to keep one step ahead (an impromptu seminar on the creature that got put down). Use the material from the appropriate Guide To...

Spin him as organically as possible, but always work him around your PCs. He's an NPC. He's yours to mould and command. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to portray him or introduce him.

Now, if you're boxed into a module, then I can't help you. I never have played a Ravenloft module. Never really liked any of them, for the most part, and never really was a module kind of DM. Sorry.

EDIT: Two key points for me to consider if I want to use Van Richten as a mentor for my PCs immediately come to mind:

1. Van Richten needs to prove his superior knowledge of monsters to the PCs. Regardless of whether or not they are aware of him and his exploits, the doctor needs to "stand over" the PCs, at least temporarily. This "awe" factor is key in proving Van Richten a capable teacher.

Combat is a great way to do this. I gave one example of su h a scenario in the text above. This combat, in my view, is a "gimme victory" for the PCs. It's sole purpose is to establish Van Richten as a mentor and the PCs as prospective students. Simply put, the PCs cannot lose this fight as it is for pushing character development forward. Roll dice but disregard results if your players are picky about letting the dice fall where they may.

2) At some point thereafter Van Richten needs to step away from the PCs. He can coach, but he shouldn't hold their hands. The PCs still need to have room to figure out Van Richten's teachings (theory) and apply them (practical).

I would judge my player's reactions to his teachings and from there feel out that cut-off point. If they're really into him being around them I'll have him around...but not for more than another "specialised" encounter. He'll get called away, tied up, incapacitated, etc in my effort to cut the cord between him and the PCs. This combat will be straight dice, but a fudge or two could be used to again promote PC detachment/independence/character development.

A copy of one of his guides, or a journal with "incomplete notes" (shortened version of his guide if you want to really grind their education) would be their continued education from here on out, until they meet up with him again in person for further instruction/Q And A/note comparison/more notes from that guide etc.

That's allfrom me right now.

Interested in hearing other's advice.. .

[Nox]

Personally, if I were to use Van Richten as a mentor for my PCs then I would bend Van Richten around them in accordance to their group philosophy, or, overall "alignment".

As an example, I would have zero issues with turning Van Richten into a fictional frontman, the creation of a good-intentioned group of monster hunters (the VRS) that are desperately needing to beef up their numbers but who will do anything to continue their war against the Dark. Including tugging on heartstrings for that emotional connection. Here the "introduction" is a personalised series of letters (letters from Santa) with live/real support members that check up on the group, or a magically-disguised member of the VRS (in a higher fantasy setting). As time goes on you can throw in the occasional slip of the tongue, slightly different mannerisms, and other such subtle clues for the PCS to pick up on. How they'll react once the mask is torn away is the fun part...

Or, play Van Richten as an old man who can do naught but run the show behind the scenes. He's simply too old. But his mind is as sharp as ever so he commands the VRS, from a hidden location that only the top agents know about, due to the nature of their mission/work (flipping over rocks to reveal what doesn't want to be revealed). Again, personalised letters of advice (legit) are sent to the PCs with a frequency that matches their exploits. Slowly they can work their way up through the ranks and perhaps meet this man in person. This example is more for discipline-minded/militant PCs.

Van Richten could be played "straight" (from the box, so to speak), and any number of situations might warrant a face-to-face. The PCs run into him out in the wilderness, where he is currently searching for a rare herb. Campfire talk leads to swapping of information and a loose (at first) alliance is forged...

The PCs, during one of their expeditions, hear the sounds of a pitched (And very horrific) battle up ahead. They get there, are given a very clear indication as to which side to take, and are ultimately "forced" into replacing Van Richten's fallen comrades (VRS?). After the victory, in large part due to the good doctor's battle instructions to the PCs, a bond is formed. Impressed with how they handled themselves, VR offers them his knowledge of the Dark and how to keep one step ahead (an impromptu seminar on the creature that got put down). Use the material from the appropriate Guide To...

Spin him as organically as possible, but always work him around your PCs. He's an NPC. He's yours to mould and command. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to portray him or introduce him.

Now, if you're boxed into a module, then I can't help you. I never have played a Ravenloft module. Never really liked any of them, for the most part, and never really was a module kind of DM. Sorry.

Thankyou. Usually I do not play on modules, but i wanted to let my players play the HExad, so here we are.
I'll adjust the modules as I see fit anyway