[VRGtR]: Alhoon's ramblings and discussions of them

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

It's literally the easiest change to undo if you wish to do so. Heck, it's not like it was ever even his actual name, just a way to refer to a mysterious plot device character.

[Wolfglide of the Fraternity]

I might just rebrand it with "Gentleman" or "Lady" in its name depending on how it chooses to appear.

...a Gentleman Caller is an actual thing.

It was what a man who visitors a lady’s boudoir in the middle of the night was known as. And being a sex demon, it made sense, was logical and added both flavour and mystery to the setting.

If one did want to vary the Caller's title based on the gender it was presenting as, it would make sense to find a similarly extant concept to identify the female version. "Lady of the Night" is right there, but it is subtly different and perhaps too obvious.

If one does want to make the name gender neutral, I do think "Caller" is too short and unevocative. Perhaps "Evening Caller" would be better?

[Rock of the Fraternity]

How about the 'Late Visitor'?
Still euphemistic, fairly ambiguous, and potentially sinister.

[alhoon]

Calling him the Caller is stupid because a Gentleman Caller is an actual thing.

It was what a man who visitors a lady’s boudoir in the middle of the night was known as. And being a sex demon, it made sense, was logical and added both flavour and mystery to the setting. Which is of course why the new authors felt the need to change it.

Hey, don't be salty. We liked things one way, 'kids these days' and those 'darned young people' have different views. I liked much of what I saw from Ravenloft 5e and there are things I can take from there. I am happy with my purchase.

How about the 'Late Visitor'?
Still euphemistic, fairly ambiguous, and potentially sinister.

I love it.

But the GC spot is taken by the GC, so I will use the "Late Visitor" for something else that is vaguely similar.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

If you are quarantined for 2 months every 6 months, society would collapse.

So far we 've made it and society didn't collapse... although after the 1st quarantine the rest were pseudo-quarantines...

We didn't have a real, Medieval quarantine. And we also have smartphones to communicate with the world and deliveries. Consider sitting in your house without internet and you will see what I mean.

Yes but in the 5th edition they didn't even consider factors like the economy in world-building, or how all these people in the isolated domains are fed. Remember that before 5e Falkovnia was the breadbasket of the Core and now that is a zombieland I don't think anyone cultivates the earth outside Lekar. Somehow (magically?, shadow food?) all these domains continue to be fed and most have strong economies that work like clockwork. Such poor world building in 5e...

[Igor the Henchman]

I don't think anyone cultivates the earth outside Lekar.

To be fair, the book says that they do (in the Lekar section), but your larger point still stands.

Personally, I plan to take the "eerie vessels from mysterious lands" that are mentioned in the description of Martira Bay, and have them also visit port cities in other domains. That would go a long way in explaining where the food comes from, if my players ask about it.

[Leliel]

Calling him the Caller is stupid because a Gentleman Caller is an actual thing.

It was what a man who visitors a lady’s boudoir in the middle of the night was known as. And being a sex demon, it made sense, was logical and added both flavour and mystery to the setting. Which is of course why the new authors felt the need to change it.

Yes, because there's plenty of room for the mysterious dark woman who seduces men away, and now the Caller does that too. Plus, Incubi are gender-shifters in 5E to begin with, so this just makes it obvious what they are.

The Caller is also, frankly, a much better horror antagonist now, because they are a far more psychological threat. They will still happily seduce you - worse. They seem to explicitly provoke codependency and love for a lie now, and frankly, that's way richer as a potential for story hooks. Because they do more than just the one thing.

Yes but in the 5th edition they didn't even consider factors like the economy in world-building, or how all these people in the isolated domains are fed. Remember that before 5e Falkovnia was the breadbasket of the Core and now that is a zombieland I don't think anyone cultivates the earth outside Lekar. Somehow (magically?, shadow food?) all these domains continue to be fed and most have strong economies that work like clockwork. Such poor world building in 5e...

Yes, how terrible worldbuilding that....it explicitly does not make sense in-universe, and it a sign that the Land of Mists is not really a world in any tradtional sense. We have the very intro saying "everyone speaks Common by default, and by all rights, this is something very alarming." Worldbuilding in a different direction is not bad worldbuilding.

Besides, if you have places that don't make sense, you chose the wrong place by far. Falkovnia has a zombie invasion every new moon, and they only attack Lekar. Farmlands are ignored.

[Mistmaster]

Considering that I'm trying to turn Ravenloft into a real Material plane, since several years now, you will understand, Leliel how the fact it does not make sense it is a problem to me.

[Leliel]

Considering that I'm trying to turn Ravenloft into a real Material plane, since several years now, you will understand, Leliel how the fact it does not make sense it is a problem to me.

More than true. There's a reason I contribute to the Reconciliation thread; I like the Material World interpretation too, I am just saying it is a different goal being pursued, rather than objectively bad. I don't blame anyone who raises their eyebrow at the MST3K Motto, that often is used to excuse far too much.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

Besides, if you have places that don't make sense, you chose the wrong place by far. Falkovnia has a zombie invasion every new moon, and they only attack Lekar. Farmlands are ignored.

I wrote "I don't think anyone cultivates the earth outside Lekar", since I haven't bought it (and probably won't), I don't know what is written in VRGtR it is just something I read in the forum, that the zombies attack Lekar. I made the logical assumption that probably all other areas in Falkovnia are overcome by zombies.
So since farmlands are ignored I guess the safest place to be in Falkovnia is in a farm during a zombie invasion.

Farm = safe
Walled city = not safe

If this is the case then it proves my point, poor world building.

it explicitly does not make sense in-universe, and it a sign that the Land of Mists is not really a world in any tradtional sense.

Or what some people here understand as an excuse for lazy writing/world development.
When they say that it doesn't make sense in-universe ,making it obvious that the Demiplane is not a world in a traditional sense, to whom is that referred to?

a) The outlander PCs who come for a weekend in hell adventure? I thought from the interviews, that one "exciting" thing about 5e was that now you can have native PCs (something that already existed since 2e but continuously avoid mentioning)

b) Native characters including PC's who have been living in the Demiplane all their lives? So how exactly is that understood by them, since for them how the Demiplane "works" is the norm?

c) Players? Which in that case I don't see the point, it is n RPG after all, what the player knows is not always an information a PC has.

We have the very intro saying "everyone speaks Common by default, and by all rights, this is something very alarming."

No comment, silence is the most powerful scream.

[Igor the Henchman]

Regarding Falkovnian farmlands, the domain suffers a massive zombie attack every month, which Vladesca has so far been successful at stopping every time, but she had to tighten her defences around Lekar and give up on everything else. In-between the monthly invasions, the Talons are forcing civilians to till the fields around the city, where their patrols keep leftover roaming undead at bay.

Regarding languages, they simply say that's at the DM's discretion, though "everyone just speaks Common" is the assumed default. If the campaign assumes that different domains speak different languages, they suggest that you allow the PCs to learn a few common phrases within a week or two of residing in the domain, enough to exchange very basic ideas with the locals.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

Regarding languages, they simply say that's at the DM's discretion, though "everyone just speaks Common" is the assumed default. If the campaign assumes that different domains speak different languages, they suggest that you allow the PCs to learn a few common phrases within a week or two of residing in the domain, enough to exchange very basic ideas with the locals.

Or give many tongues scrolls to the adventuring party...

In-between the monthly invasions, the Talons are forcing civilians to till the fields around the city, where their patrols keep leftover roaming undead at bay.

Safezone style? At least I hope Vlaceska doesn't restrict her army from using firearms, they will definitely going to need those high-fantasy-medieval-mini-guns...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1318235745

[Manofevil]

Considering that I'm trying to turn Ravenloft into a real Material plane, since several years now, you will understand, Leliel how the fact it does not make sense it is a problem to me.

It occurred to me some time ago to consider how a place like Ravenloft would exist in the same universe as our earth. I came to the following conclusions:

The Dark Powers would either inhabit or seize a gas giant planet of the same surface gravity as that of the source planets they bring the realms from. The gas presents itself as the misty barriers between the realms. The planet spins at the necessary rate to create a 'day' of 24 hrs or near that. The DPs create or bring on realms with enough indigenous plant and animal life to create the necessary symbiosis to maintain the required atmosphere for life as we know it. The mists also create gas 'roofs' over each realm so that the light from only certain stars shine through to the realm, giving the night sky the same look as that realm had on it's original planet. As more realms are gathered by the DPs, the planet and it's biosphere become more stable and able to sustain more life. The seas would effectively be large water filled 'bowls' with mists holding them together. Gravity and the DPs are the mess that hold this whole mess together. In a Spelljammer universe, all of this could be done with Phlogiston.

Make of that what you will.

[alhoon]

Yes but in the 5th edition they didn't even consider factors like the economy in world-building, or how all these people in the isolated domains are fed.

I see that as "For the DM" territory. Some would want the world to feel "artificial" like the example John Mangrum gave a few years ago, about the small lake that constantly has fish despite being fished upon for generations. Some would want to expand and give different explanations more grounded to reality. For some games, the DM may simply not care and just want a Gothic background for the PCs to bash baddies and that's fine too as long as everyone has fun around the table.

I don't see that as flaw per se. I see that as "room for development". What I do see as flaw is how badly they dropped the ball with the NPCs. I really, really hope there's a part somewhere that says "the NPC stats we give are just for quick convenience and the DM should feel free to flesh out the NPCs using non-generic stat blocks. Here's some suggestions on how to make villains and heroes."
I mean, Van Richten is given as two wiiiidely different options when it comes to CR and one of the two options had intelligence 13. That is, in a book with his name on it.
Ez is given spells in one alternative and no spells in the other. Jaqueline Renier is again "a wererat" without even the 2nd edition courtesy of giving her more-than-average hp. Alanik Ray has... 12 intelligence (Spy stats). How hard would it be to say "Laurie uses the veteran stats but with 14 intelligence. Both twins are veteran monster hunters and they are trained in all intelligence skills".

I am sure that few people would complain if there were a couple of domains less, a monster or two less and in their place there were 5-6 pages detailing the stats of 4-5 named NPCs and giving the stats of 3-4 more generic people. Something like "Professional monster hunter" or something.
I like new Isolde's story though. Not sure I prefer it from the old Isolde story, but frankly it makes a bit more sense to me for her to be a tricked fey than a celestial that is trapped in paladin form. And as usual, her statblock fails her. Alignment: evil. Yes, I know there was one such option in the Carnival. But if you put the alignment as evil, do not present her as good in the very nice description below. The stats-writing people should have read what then story-writing people wrote.

All in all, from what I have seen so far, I like some of the new things and the discussions they generate and the memories they bring.
But "Curse of Strahd" was certainly more ... professional. This book is a bit of a sloppy work. A good "first try" and font of inspiration, but not complete.

[alhoon]

Ahh... Lysa Von Zarovich. A Vampire (with generic uberpowerful vampire stats of course, but more ranting on that subject can be found in the previous post). But Tatyana's Reincarnation? I can't say that I like it. It is of course just an alternative but it gives the wrong vibe IMO. Tatayana should be a pure soul ... and not Strahd's cousin.


EDIT: I love the new Dementlieu! It is a brand new domain though. Renaming it to something else and nobody would notice.