Kartakass and the Invidian Occupation

[rattlehead]

Hi guys,

I am trying to write up a campaign beginning in Kartakass and expanding to nearby realms. But there are a few …details I am trying to flesh out. Before I go and start making big leaps I wanted to see if there were "official" type answers.

Question: Are the Invidians of Ravenloft's Core the same group that invaded Kartakass?

In Gazetteer I, "S" seems to dismiss the idea because Inividia emerged a decade before Kartakass and they never shared a border so its part of the Kartakan "false history".

So, if not the Invidians, who invaded Kartakass? Is there any cannon info on the subject? Did Harkon Lucas just appear in Ravenloft with a completely new realm that happened to speak Vaasi, or is Kartakass a reflection of Cromyr as Nova Vasa is to Vaasa in the Forgotten Realms?

If that's the case, does anyone experienced with Forgotten Realms know who a suitable candidate for the "dark men" invaders of Kartakass before it emerged into Ravenloft?

Thanks.

[Tobias Blackburn]

Karatakas didn't exist until Harkon was granted the domain (while fleeing from Barovia). The invaders are false history and never really existed. Perhaps when Invidia appeared the histories twisted again and the Karatakans began to use that particular name for the invaders.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

Considering the plastic nature of history, the invaders might have indeed been Invidians. Heck, there could be historical evidence found in Invidia, further confirming the false history.

I'd say yeah, the invaders could be Invidian.

[Bloody Morgan]

I'd say that they are, insofarasmuch as false history goes. The non-existant ancestors of the modern Invidians invaded the nonexistant ancestors of the Kartakans. It's the Dark Powers being bastards really, and sowing the seeds for future unpleasentness. Or just the general, low-level malice which effects so many more people than one individuals utter nightmare.

Bloody Morgan

[brothersale]

Question: Are the Invidians of Ravenloft's Core the same group that invaded Kartakass?

In Gazetteer I, "S" seems to dismiss the idea because Inividia emerged a decade before Kartakass and they never shared a border so its part of the Kartakan "false history".

"S" is fairly on the ball in this case and she does identify the fact the invaders in pre-RGI used to be known as the "Dark Men"

[/quote]
Did Harkon Lucas just appear in Ravenloft with a completely new realm that happened to speak Vaasi, or is Kartakass a reflection of Cromyr as Nova Vasa is to Vaasa in the Forgotten Realms?

[/quote]

Actually Harkon first appeared in Barovia and in the process of being himself attracted Strahd wrath, and fled into the mists. at which point he found himself in Kartakass and shortly after destroyed Dargacht Keep and helped end he occupation.

As to Kartakass resembling Comyr (sp?), the genral description of the land more resembles the Dales rather that that unified country, with the Dark Men being echos of the Zhents. Although imc i used a blending of them and the first humans in the book of Vile darkness to create the dark men, and they still exist in some of the more remote settlements, bitter and resentful waiting to take back the land from the Kartakans

[rattlehead]

Thanks for the input. I downloaded the black box set and reread the Invidian History from the Gazetteer to see if there were any clues there, not really just more questions about Invida and its origins. My goal was to make sure that the whole “occupation” was a puzzle I could put my own DM spin on rather than something had been laid out and I just over looked.

I was ASSuming that there would have been some semblance of an actual history that had been supplanted by Ravenloft’s false history, and that if you looked back at where Kartakass came from (the FR) there would be an obvious “duplicate” of the Invidians.

Especially since the invaders built Dargacht Keep ( i think?). I guess I will actually have to skim the FR setting for a candidate. The "zhents" would do i would think, I just am unfamiliar with that setting and would have to read and look for compatible angles.

Actually Harkon first appeared in Barovia and in the process of being himself attracted Strahd wrath, and fled into the mists. at which point he found himself in Kartakass and shortly after destroyed Dargacht Keep and helped end he occupation.

I saw this in the black box after you mentioned it; is there any more info on this, in a novel maybe?

[brothersale]

Thanks for the input. I downloaded the black box set and reread the Invidian History from the Gazetteer to see if there were any clues there, not really just more questions about Invida and its origins. My goal was to make sure that the whole “occupation” was a puzzle I could put my own DM spin on rather than something had been laid out and I just over looked.

I was ASSuming that there would have been some semblance of an actual history that had been supplanted by Ravenloft’s false history, and that if you looked back at where Kartakass came from (the FR) there would be an obvious “duplicate” of the Invidians.

Especially since the invaders built Dargacht Keep ( i think?). I guess I will actually have to skim the FR setting for a candidate. The "zhents" would do i would think, I just am unfamiliar with that setting and would have to read and look for compatible angles.

the basic run down of the Zhents is they are a pack of evil warlords, priests, and mages, held together by what was the most powerful of FR's evil gods: Bane. Bhaal, and Myrel(sp?). their main leaders followed Bane's tyranical teachings and they often tried to conquer other realm's (mainly the dales) from their fortress city of Zhentil Keep, until those gods and their keep were destoyed during and shortly after the FR's Time of Troubles. they have since rebuilt and with the return of Bane are back to their old trick. an interesting point is that while they have never captured the whole of the dales they have at times captured portions of it, treating the captured populations with same brutal tatic ascribed to the Dark Men.

as to futher notes on Harkon's entrance into Kartakass try John W Mangrum unoffical timeline or Death of a Darklord (novel)(note it doesn't say alot just that he destroyed the Keep)

[Rotipher of the FoS]

IMO, the whole business with the alleged "Invidian invaders" is just one of the DPs' taunts towards the local darklord. A part of Harkon wants to be hailed as a great and heroic leader, so Kartakass's false history places his name in precisely such a heroic role ... but -- like everything the wolfwere does, to try to grab public acclaim for himself in his false human guise -- it's ultimately just a lie, and deep down Harkon knows it.

Indeed, come to think of it, the DPs might have ripped off the whole idea from Strahd's own (genuine!) role as a liberator for his subjects. If Lukas had learned of Strahd's history before he got chased out of Barovia -- by posing as a human and conversing with Barovians, who boasted of their cultural hero "Strahd I", before Harkon ate them, perhaps? -- then casting the wolfwere in an analogous, but totally bogus role in his own piddly little domain's false history would've been even more of a kick in the teeth for Harkon: he not only got his butt kicked by the Barovian darklord, but now he has to live with the humiliation of being falsely credited with deeds the vampire who creamed him did, for real! It'd be a nagging reminder that, again, everything he accomplishes is a feeble fake.

[The Giamarga]

the basic run down of the Zhents is they are a pack of evil warlords, priests, and mages, held together by what was the most powerful of FR's evil gods: Bane. Bhaal, and Myrel(sp?). their main leaders followed Bane's tyranical teachings and they often tried to conquer other realm's (mainly the dales) from their fortress city of Zhentil Keep, until those gods and their keep were destoyed during and shortly after the FR's Time of Troubles. they have since rebuilt and with the return of Bane are back to their old trick. an interesting point is that while they have never captured the whole of the dales they have at times captured portions of it, treating the captured populations with same brutal tatic ascribed to the Dark Men.

It's Myrkul. That was the late god of the dead, while Bhaal was god of murder and assassins. Since Bane is now listed as an officialgod in the RL Core book perhaps it would make sense to have shadows of the Zhents in RL too. Though currently they are torn up in an inner war between the Banites and the Cyric-worshippers who took up after the old gods left. But that is more recent history in the realms so could be disregarded for the RL echo.

The Zhentarim are also often called the Black Network and are opposed by the Harpers in FR. Aside from warriors, priesta and mages they are also noted fo rtheir speis. Here's some quick links for more info about them:
http://www.dragonslayergames.com/soaringblade/id50.htm
http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/organi ... arim.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhentarim