The RL of White Wolf complaints thread

[Wiccy of the Fraternity]

I enjoyed the interior and exterior design of the books, it made them uniform inside and out. The writing was also good, as was some of the art (Talon and Pozaz for instance), though some of it was extremely poor.

My main complaints were always the standard of editing, the way the setting was advertised/marketed (not enough coverage) and the fact that so many of the books were delayed for so long, it made people feel for over a year that the setting wa coming to an end, so poor management is also to blame.

[Brandi]

I enjoyed the interior and exterior design of the books, it made them uniform inside and out. The writing was also good, as was some of the art (Talon and Pozaz for instance), though some of it was extremely poor.

Though even the bad stuff was better than the original Islands of Terror book, which I think may have had the weakest art of all the series.

[Arnino Storm]

My main complaint is that they didn't do the other Gazetteers. Now, me poor newbie, will have to search through second ed stuff to get info on anything that wasn't in the five published ones. That is, when i have the five published ones (damn lack of money).

[JinnTolser]

My biggest complaint was the utter absence of information for the Clusters and Islands of Terror. Obviously the writers had to detail the Core first, but it would have been nice to have at least something official about the other domains.

Unless one was willing to track down Domains of Dread or one of the old box sets, all a 3e player like myself has to go on is the single sentence description in the beginning of Secrets of the Dread Realms about the Darklords of various domains.

I tried to be patient, because I knew the Kargatane would eventually have gotten to the Clusters and probably Islands as well, but then the setting fell apart and now there's no new information.

My next biggest problem was the rising book prices, although this is more of a problem with RP books in general, not specifically Ravenloft. I haven't bought a new D&D book since VRGttWD because they're just too costly! As much as I love the Gazetteer series, I can't dish out $25 for a book about domains that I'm not using anyway. I think book prices have gotten out of control (starting around the time the core D&D books jumped from $20 to $30 around here), and that may have hurt Ravenloft's sales some.

About the book covers, I thought they were really nice looking but I can see the argument about bland covers hurting sales and failing to attract attention. On the other hand, it seemed to work for V:tM. Haven't looked at V:tR yet, is there art on the new WoD book covers?

[Don Fernando]

......

My next biggest problem was the rising book prices, although this is more of a problem with RP books in general, not specifically Ravenloft. I haven't bought a new D&D book since VRGttWD because they're just too costly! As much as I love the Gazetteer series, I can't dish out $25 for a book about domains that I'm not using anyway. I think book prices have gotten out of control (starting around the time the core D&D books jumped from $20 to $30 around here), and that may have hurt Ravenloft's sales some.

And that's in USA.... imagine the price of the books outside USA, say Europe or South America.....$$
Thankfully we have: INTERNET!!!

[Wiccy of the Fraternity]

Core books tend to retail for about £20 in the UK, though most places knock a little of the price tag. It is still alot though, which is why I got MotRD from the States, for about half the price it would have cost me in the UK, including shipping!

[Ultramyth]

I live in Sweden. My family owns a bookstore. It is cheaper for me to order off of Amazon.com and pay international shipping and the cover price in the US than to get the books in even with my 30% store discount!

I guess that's partly to do with the fact that they have to be specially ordered from the UK, which already import them from the US, so it's much easier just to get them off of amazon.

I'd pay $19.95 max for a gazetteer at the most, though I'd rather pay less.

[Tobias Blackburn]

My biggest problem with the line was the editing, something I noticed came to the same person time and time again. I also found the public fights between where the authors snarled at each other and the developers to be extremely frustrating. Those problems should have been discussed elsewhere, not on a public forum.

Otherwise, it was a good run. Interesting new NPC's, monsters, and plots were introduced, and the land was fleshed out extremely well. We got a great deck of Tarokka cards. Even with editing errors the material was useable and captured the feeling of the setting in both mechanics and flavour (with a few exceptions).

Best run yet. I hope that the line doesn't go back into production too soon, though. If they do they're going to start at the beginning again, not where this run left off and I cannot see them being able to add much more to the Core to justify another run just yet.

[Igor the Henchman]

Best run yet. I hope that the line doesn't go back into production too soon, though. If they do they're going to start at the beginning again, not where this run left off and I cannot see them being able to add much more to the Core to justify another run just yet.

I'm in complete agreement. In my opinion, the best course of action for Ravenloft right now would be to go into slumber for a few years before trying a comeback. Right now, after two runs, the setting is just too heavy with its own richness and details. A slow, deep breath needs to be taken before plunging into it again.

[Tobias Blackburn]

I'm in complete agreement. In my opinion, the best course of action for Ravenloft right now would be to go into slumber for a few years before trying a comeback. Right now, after two runs, the setting is just too heavy with its own richness and details. A slow, deep breath needs to be taken before plunging into it again.

Look at Castlevania. Dracula takes a few decades between stakings. Keeps him fresh. Gives him time to repair his clocktower. As long as we have fan supplements coming out, we don't really need the main print version. I mean, what more could you need to run a Ravenloft game?

[MadamCarla]

Otherwise, it was a good run. Interesting new NPC's, monsters, and plots were introduced, and the land was fleshed out extremely well. We got a great deck of Tarokka cards. Even with editing errors the material was useable and captured the feeling of the setting in both mechanics and flavour (with a few exceptions).

Best run yet.

Thanks Tobias

I read the boards sometimes, but rarely jump in. It's terribly sad that the line is gone (at least for now) and I'm really sad that "Mists" is only going to be put out online...although I guess I'm glad Rucht & my work will be available for folks. Hoping for Talon's work on it is too much to ask...but at least (from what I've heard) they've taken the time to format it like all the other guides. I hope you'll like it as much as the tarokka...I feel like it is some of my best work--Rucht's too.

It's funny that you say that about the tarokka. When Jackie (of the Dark Duo) told me about the end of the line that was my first reaction (or maybe my second...but what can you say about a lump in the throat and your heart dropping into your shoes)--that at least the tarokka had a chance to be published.

I've enjoyed my time with this line, especially my work on the Dungeon Master's guide...even Champions of Darkness that so many people seem to despise gave me the chance to add to the world of Ravenloft!

All of the writers were great as far as I'm concerned, and the Dark Duo brought some people into the writing world professionally that others might not have given a chance...Brett King, Rucht Lilivivat, Tadd McDivitt, myself among others...I think added a great deal of good stuff because of our developers being there for us and knowing what we could do well.

Thanks to all the fans of Ravenloft for being there for us too. We did our best, and I think our best was pretty darn good.

Look for the Guide to the Mists in September. I hope you find it useful.

Keep Creating

Carla

[Vorpal Dragon]

I must admit that I found a lot of the art work in many of the books uninspiring. Some were certainly very good such as the vampire picture and the races in the Campaign Setting.

Mind you, I'm not fan a of the computer graphics style art (though the Strahd Skeleton picture was okay...) or the black and white only (id est no grey used... I understand the contrast is important with Ravenloft, but Ravenloft is a bit more deeper than just black and white - if you know what I mean).

I see both sides of the argument with colour versus greyscale in the book. I feel a mix of the two would be best (isn't that a paradoxical statement?) For example, the pages could be coloured to look like old paper (an off-white colour), this would remove some of the sting to the eyes that pure black and white seems to cause. Maybe some red as well, which would strengthen the relation between the pages and the cover while at the same time providing a nice contrast (cover is off-white and red against black, pages are black and red against off-white).

I liked the border around the pages and the art for the chapter headings.

Why is it, that the campaign setting (and the PHB I believe) states quite clearly that they are NO ORCS in Ravenloft at all (not even in stories et cetera) and the Dungeon Master's Guide suggests Orcs as henchmen for Warlord type villains? (a little point I know, but that does make me wonder how much some of the authors care or know Ravenloft - the lack of Orcs is a pretty fundamental point I thought.. perhaps someone would like to enlighten me on this matter.)

The books provide many great ideas (and a few bad ones alas...). I particularly like the Alchemical Philosopher; the best alchemist class I've yet (I haven't seen the full rules from 2nd ed.. so I don't know how it compares to it.)

I've just purchased a beautiful Gothic tarot deck for my Ravenloft campaign starting soon. I was wondering how good the Ravenloft Tarokka deck was. Is there anywhere on the Internet that provides samples shots of the cards?

[Catman Jim]

Several of the Tarokka cards' art can be found on Talon Dunning's website here: http://www.talonart.com/pro-ww.html

[Ultramyth]

Thought of another complaint about the 3rd edition RL...

Culture Levels

It always bothered me that they called states like Dementlieu, Lamordia and Mordent 'renaissance' domains when they are so clearly influenced by a period that falls under a later category.

The renaissance was at the very (and absolute) latest ending around 1650, but those domains are clearly 18th century and later.

I would name the new period "Enlightenment". But renaissance is just flat out innacurate.

[Charney]

Thought of another complaint about the 3rd edition RL...

Culture Levels



I would name the new period "Enlightenment". But renaissance is just flat out innacurate.

I entirely agree with that. Renaissance, to historians (which I am), isn't a time period by itself, it's rather a movement. At my university we call that time period Modern times.