Gazetteer Metaplot

[Malus Black]

Steve Miller created the Gentleman Caller, if I recall correctly.

From the Evil Eye author's notes.

This product features the first appearance of the Gentleman Caller, a figure that was placed in there by Steve Kurtz as a sort-of drive-by demonic rapist to get the ball rolling. I decided that he would make a great recurring background figure, so I took a line where Mr. Kurtz referred to Gabrielle Aderre's not really remembering the night she spent with her "gentleman caller" and made that the fellows name and had him pop up in products I worked on over the following couple of years. He captured the imaginations of Ravenloft fans in a way I had never anticipated.

[Steve Miller]

Excuse me, but is there any reason why the true theory can't be revealed? Why this game of twenty questions?

When the Gentleman Caller was taken from a one-shot adventure set-up and turned into something broader, he was something for DMs to use in their campaigns, as they saw fit.

His "masterplan" (if there was one) was NEVER going to be revealed in any level of detail.

The GC is just a wandering bastard, Ravenloft's Randall Flagg, the dark powers given flesh... whatever and however you wanted to use him.

Could the ToUD be brought on by the GC because he wants universal domination? Sure. It could also be brought on as a side-effect by his desire to get his scrawny little body away from Isolde's big-ass sword. It could also be that he has nothing directly to do with it, but that his running around triggers something else--perhaps one of his hellspawn do it.

GAZ V implies that he IS keeping track of at least some of his own offspring, hence his recognition of them when going through S.'s notes. There's also an implication there that he IS up to something... or he might just be Ravenloft's equivilent of Sean Penn and he hates people writing about him.

I guess the bottomline for me is that I'll never give a complete/straight answer about the GC's plans, because I think that runs contrary to why he exists in the first place.

[Steve Miller]

1. The GC was really escaping from Isolde. No plan for Multiverse domination whatsoever.

2. Number 1 leads to the following conclusions:
a. The GC knew the Basics about Ravenloft (demiplane, prision, no escape beeing the keywords).
b. No knowledge of the Darkpowers, the fabric of Ravenloft or, again, Multiverse domination Plan.

3. This clears the path, now. So the GC is only a part in the ToUD, just as the Gaz's are. He's not the mastermind behind it all.

There's still the big question:
Does Azalin know something in particular about the GC? This question, i guess is very important to link the two toghether.

What say you?

I say that you could be right. But it could also be that he triggers the ToUD for the simple reason of not wanting to be trapped in a maze with a pissed off angel who is devoted to wacking him.

The GC entered Ravneloft to escape Isolde, she followed, so now he has to get out. He could have developed a grand scheme beyond simple escape, if you like.

On the other hand, he could be creating offspring to serve simply as flack... a distractions to keep Isolde off his tail, and in this case, it would be bad for Azalin's flunkie to be wrting about them. If properly informed, Isolde may start ignoring any lesser evil she comes across and start focusing 100% on the GC. With no distractions, she may eventually manage to run him to ground (or so his logic might go).

[The Dark One]

hmmm... after 11 pages we got some facts (and a dread possibility)


1 - GC and his children aren't direct linked to the metaplot - definitiv.

2 - Reality wrinkles have nothing to do with metaplot or ToUD - definitiv.

2 - S isn't a GC children, and neither a azalin clone - definitiv.

3 - S is a van Richtem - dread possibility.

4 - ToUD isn't the metaplot - definitiv.


Now some question:

1 - Where is S from?

2 - Why Strahd (old enemy of Azalin) has no importance in this plan?

3 - Why one of the Mordent families isn't described? Which other points are ommitted in the Gazzetters?

4 - Why Azalin becomes furious with S dealing with the Vistana?

[Jester of the FoS]

Excuse me, but is there any reason why the true theory can't be revealed? Why this game of twenty questions?

Technically, the metaplot would be the property of White Wolf, as part of it was written and sold to that company, despite that the big three-four people at the company who were involved with the line probably couldn't tell you the plot to save their life.

It'd be nice if someone would just come out and spill the beans but that would also kill all the fun brainstorming and ideas we have going on here.

[Undead Cabbage]

Not to mention, sometimes more is less. The fact that no body knows who the last of the GCs childeren are, allows me to create a neat plot hook by making one of my players the '5th child', if you will (evangelion, anyone?).

The reason why I jumped ship from FR was that I found there were no holes for me to fill; no available spots in the grand scheme of the world. When these huge and important parts have been left open, it means that you can occupy them. If they are filled, the story is finished before you even get there.

[Matthew L. Martin]

Not to mention, sometimes more is less. The fact that no body knows who the last of the GCs childeren are, allows me to create a neat plot hook by making one of my players the '5th child', if you will (evangelion, anyone?).

Who said there were only 5?

EDIT: I see looking back through this thread that John pretty much confirmed that there were going to be 13. So much for that being a tease.



Matthew L. Martin

[Mangrum]

Like I said -- one gamer, long ago, was dead on.

Everyone else who's ever posted their theories -- chasing their tails.

And to address a recent question -- one reason I don't just spill the beans is that it would be futile. Any flat-out definitive statements we have made, historically, have had lifespans counted in posts before you guys mutated them into whatever notions you already had your hearts set on.

Seriously, it's been years since I lost count of how many times I posted something, then saw it get flipped into its exact opposite over the course of a thread.

[Matthew L. Martin]

hmmm... after 11 pages we got some facts (and a dread possibility)


1 - GC and his children aren't direct linked to the metaplot - definitiv.

2 - Reality wrinkles have nothing to do with metaplot or ToUD - definitiv.

2 - S isn't a GC children, and neither a azalin clone - definitiv.

3 - S is a van Richtem - dread possibility.

4 - ToUD isn't the metaplot - definitiv.

I'd like to know where you're getting this, since looking back over this thread, I see only the last item confirmed. The rest is speculation, and it seems to me that it's heavily mixed with wishful thinking in your case.

Now some question:

1 - Where is S from?

Darkon, of course. If she'd been from anywhere else, she would have realized it upon leaving the domain.

2 - Why Strahd (old enemy of Azalin) has no importance in this plan?

We don't know that he doesn't. And he didn't have any role in Azalin Rex's last big scheme.

3 - Why one of the Mordent families isn't described? Which other points are ommitted in the Gazzetters?

My guess is that the Westcoates were omitted because they were described in Howls of the Night (not the best logic, IMO, if that was the case) or for space reasons. That's only a guess, though.

4 - Why Azalin becomes furious with S dealing with the Vistana?

I think Gaz V made this pretty obvious--she risks drawing the attention of the Tribe of Hyskosa, who would try to interfere.

Matthew L. Martin

[Undead Cabbage]

Like I said -- one gamer, long ago, was dead on.

Everyone else who's ever posted their theories -- chasing their tails.

And to address a recent question -- one reason I don't just spill the beans is that it would be futile. Any flat-out definitive statements we have made, historically, have had lifespans counted in posts before you guys mutated them into whatever notions you already had your hearts set on.

Seriously, it's been years since I lost count of how many times I posted something, then saw it get flipped into its exact opposite over the course of a thread.

Ya, I'll vouch for that. Even if Mangrum were to tell us EVERYTHING about RL (or even just what will eventually happen to S), I'd still kind of just move on and change it to whatever I wanted it to be.

I think we're going at this the wrong way. Instead of guessing 'what it is for certain', instead maybe we could be focusing on dread possibilites tied to this. Instead of saying "It was definately", how about an approach where we lended campaign ideas.

Having read all of the material, we want to know the authors answer sort of like how a reader wants to know the end of the next book. However, RL is not just a novel series: it's a campaign setting for Dungeons and Dragons. Instead of thinking of ways to satisfy our own curious inquisitions, why not turn this around and spawn some campaign ideas?

[Pamela]

Thank you for all the answers; I was curious...

[Jester of the FoS]

Like I said -- one gamer, long ago, was dead on.

But how about a name, date and location?

[The Dark One]

I'd like to know where you're getting this, since looking back over this thread, I see only the last item confirmed. The rest is speculation, and it seems to me that it's heavily mixed with wishful thinking in your case.

Now some question:

1 - Where is S from?

Darkon, of course. If she'd been from anywhere else, she would have realized it upon leaving the domain.


Matthew L. Martin

Forget...

About your comment about the 5 "wishful thinking": re read the entire thread (specially the reality wrinkle issue and the curious answer of Mr. Mangrum about it; S not being a GC children is explicit mencioned; and "S being a Van Richtem" IS NOT my idea, and NOT EVEN my appointment).

1 - Now some PERSONAL points of view about "wishful thinking" question:

Even if the game designers come here and say: AZALIN plan was up to X, i would simple read it see if it is adequate of MY point of view of AZALIN personality and the campaign that i am running and there would be two conclusions: (1) i don't agree and i won't follow; or (2) i agree and i will follow.

It is a strong position but it reflects a truth: i only considerer cannon, and so MUST follow, those material published under the license of the Ravenloft Campaign Setting (be WW or WoTC or old TSR). If it is only a fan made netbook, or a simple internet article, i would be grateful for the statement but i won't consider it "must follow" or even "canon"

This is the trouble if you got a broken line like Ravenloft 3-3.5ed: at the end, without a licensed printed material to make it "must follow", it is up to the DM to decide to accept it or not.

So don't come with "wishful thinking", because even the statement of the game designer actually is "wishful thinking", sad but true.

Now, which is the main purpose of this thread: to discover which "wishful thinking" the game designers had in mind and, in the process, elaborate some points which can help or not to improve the your knowledge about the setting.

2 - About my "wishful thinking":

(1) GC and children = ilustrious unknown people, which destiny are, for the GC = death on the point of sword of Isolde; his children = die by the hand of the group of adventures that are in my session.

(2) About the metaplot = S journey is a journey in search of knowledge about the demiplane, a search to the "good powers" and a possible enconter with the true reincarnation of Azalin son Irik (based on Lord of Necropolis - so it is NON CANON, and not the plan of the game designers)

(3) About S = being a azalin clone or a GC child would be like a B-film horror movie script; for me she was only one more pawn used be Azalin, but after this thread i consider to make her a van Richtem as plausible;

(4) about ToUD = simple: what the fuck is this? Won't exist in my campaign until some licensed material says it exist, or a very good fan made material comes out saying it exist (like the Ilith god brain history on one of the Book of S_)

(5) About reality wrinkle = only powerful outsiders got reality wrinkles, and it doesn't has any conection with any darklord plan or metaplot.

That are my 5 "wishful thinking" and, OF COURSE, i know they have nothing to do with the metaplot planned to the entire Gazzetters.


After that all, i have a last curiosity question:

Has S something to do with the Book of S___, or it is a simple coincidence?


PS: Sorry for my english, and yes, i am lawyer.

[Joël of the FoS]

hmmm... after 11 pages we got some facts (and a dread possibility)

1 - GC and his children aren't direct linked to the metaplot - definitiv.
2 - Reality wrinkles have nothing to do with metaplot or ToUD - definitiv.
2 - S isn't a GC children, and neither a azalin clone - definitiv.

What is the source of these?

It would be more useful to make a list of the meaningful quotes from the former K about the S project, so we do not change / interpret their meaning. And a list of facts about S we found in the Gaz.

From this precise list, it would be possible to continue. There are so many possibilities, we can't work on other people's interpretation or we're sure to stay in the field for long.

Joël

[Joël of the FoS]

I'll start:

Info from the Gaz 1 and 2 (if someone wants to make the other Gaz, please do so - but just the facts please!)

Race / creature type :
- Azalin's quote clearly say that S is living (Gaz2 p93)
- As many observed, S doesn't seem to have any outcast problem in either the domains visited, even Falkovnia. So S is (or appear as) human.
- S is a woman

Profession:
- scientist and scholar (Gaz1 p4) Degree in Il Aluk University, Brautslava Institute (Gaz2 p4)
- studied Il Aluk for 5 years (Gaz1 p4).
- Knows a lot about the plane of Ravenloft (domains, darklord, etc.)
- was refused from the Fraternity of Shadows, because they are "trapped in antiquated modes of thoughts" (Gaz2 p28) (because she is female or because she cast necromantic magic)

Personality:
- very confident in herself (Gaz1 p4)
- High intelligence, cold analytic person
- High charisma ? Not so sure. While she is say she is good at making people talk, Azalin writes about her "frosty demeanors" (Gaz1 p23).
- Surely not good aligned, as per the vivisection on the wolfwere (Gaz1 p92), or letting her daughter as a ghoul and using her to get information on Necropolis
- Doesn't consider herself evil, when she encounters Ambrose of the "Brotherhood of Broken Blades" (Gaz1 p106). Doesn't mean a thing per se, as evil people often do not consider themselves evil.

D&D Classes:
- able to cast spells ("paralysis" on a wolfwere (Gaz1 p92) - hold person ? hold monster ?); scrying on monks (Gaz1 p42), produce "arcane flame"on Gremishka (Gaz1 p69)
- S's daughter was killed by a controlled ghoul Kargat who broke S's control (Gaz2 p57). What kind of control ? magical ? physical restraining ?

Family :
- "Indeed, this is how I found my spouse" (Gaz2 p28) So S is/was married, a loveless marriage.
- Has a daughter, now a ghoul in Necropolis (Gaz2 p62)

Miscellaneous:
- have pistols
- has killed shadow feys (Gaz1 p77)

Future:

"I have obtained full knowledge of the actual facts behind Azalin's downfall and eventual return (Gaz1 p4)

"Your value has not escaped my attention" (Azalin's quote, Gaz2 p4)

After S asked if all this is a test, Azalin quote: "Indeed, the first of many. Your recognition of that fact was the second" (Gaz2 p5)

The fortune teller can't see S's death or is puzzled by what she "see" (Gaz2 p47) Another possible clue as for S's future: you can't see the death of an undead !

-----

Now the hints added here:

John W Mangrum:

* Had we kept to the schedule of two gazetteers a year, the series would have concluded in 762 BC - thirteen years before the Time of Unparalleled Darkness.

* The ToUD has always been and remains nothing more than an idea seed for DMs -- no one that I know of (with the exception of Steve Miller, for the initial adventure concept that eventually became Die Vecna Die) has put much thought into its details. (Just about all of my thoughts concerning the ToUD are actually in R3E, seeded in the History section.)

* That said, the general idea that's been simmering for quite a while is that the ToUD, unlike the Grand Conjunction, would not be a singular event. Rather, it would be the culmination of a long series of terrible events, each one making the world a worse place. One way to look at it -- if every Dread Possibility comes true in your campaign, you're setting the stage for the ToUD.

* Azalin's plan, should it succeed, would be one of the events making life worse in general.

* If Azalin's plan succeeded, some groups of people would never notice. For other groups, however, Azalin's success would spark catastrophic fallout.

* As an example of possible fallout, Azalin's success would likely spark a war across most of the western Core, which would in turn probably crush Borca. This war has nothing to do with Azalin's plans whatsoever -- it's just a logical side effect of his intended actions, one of no personal significance.

* Escape from the Demiplane of Dread is not part of Azalin's plan. (Which is not to say it doesn't factor into anyone's plans -- there are several movers and shakers here, each acting toward their own ends.) By now, Azalin's figured out that even if he did escape, who's to say his "tormentors" wouldn't just snatch him up again?

* The children of the Gentlemen Caller do figure into it. In Gazetteer VI, the reader would have learned just how many children were out there/Azalin needed to find. In Gazetteer VII, S would have learned as well, and both she and the reader would have discovered the exact purpose of her magic bracer. This would have kicked off the latter half of the series, with S visiting the clusters and islands.

* As an unrelated side note, Gaz VI would have also introduced a supporting cast that would have stuck around until about halfway through Gaz VIII -- the crew of the ship Azalin supplies to cart S about the seas.

* Ultimately, the Gazetteers aren't about the catastrophic end game -- they're about S herself.

* In my personal notes, I considered Gazetteer XIII a good place to end Ravenloft Third Edition. Particularly since D&D 4th Edition would likely be approaching (or here) by then, were RL still going at that point, I would have bumped the timeline forward to 765 BC and handed the reins off to the next generation of designers to launch Ravenloft Fourth Edition, which likely would have focused on the imminent "end days" of the setting.

* According to plan (which I later managed to muddle), there would be one child of the GC in each Gazetteer (thanks to my deadline issues, Gaz III ended up with none, and Gaz IV got two).

* The first child (the one in Gaz I) is, as some have speculated, the batwinged Beast of the Hills. Not that there's any way to tell from the book. The Kartakass chapter originally included a bit more on this character, but as it stands she narrowly avoided being edited out of the book altogether.

* A concept I eventually formulated was that in terms of exact nature, powers, and personality, each individual "demonspawn" was an amplified reflection of its Vistani mother's worst fears and failings. Malocchio Aderre is the only one who actively seeks the destruction of the Vistani, because he's a dark reflection of the worst aspects of his mother, Gabrielle, and he's the most powerful, because he reflects the power of his mother.

* The general idea of the Beast of the Hills, since it's moot now, was that her demonic nature manifested almost entirely physically. Most of these "dukkars" look normal (save for some minor physical deformity), but have utterly fiendish souls; this one is physically fiendish, but inwardly lacks her father's malice. In hindsight, I'd assume her mother had serious self-esteem issues.

The Beast's lost Dread Possibility went something like this: The Beast had retreated to Radaga's old haunting grounds to avoid civilization. However, the artifact Radaga possessed (the stone slab she used to steal the youth and vitality from damsels strapped to it) was empathically calling out to her (as evil artifacts are wont to do), trying to convince her to use it to give herself a normal appearance.

I'll add this: Over the course of three years, one fan has publicly guessed the whole Gazetteer metaplot correctly. (Disturbingly so, in fact.)

Ryan :

I think it is a real pity that the gazetteers were never completed, since Our Hero had all sorts of exciting adventures ahead of her (I was particularly looking forward to Blaustein, which is the highlight of her story for me). But considering that after the Great Falling Out, the gazetteer writers weren't even really aware of the metaplot, I'm not sure it would have lied up to my expectations.

I've never understood the confusion about whether Our Hero was evil or not. She's evil. She dissects living things for the hell of it. She sacrificed her daughter in an experiment on undead (albeit unintentionally, and as of Sithicus and Keening, is starting to regret it), and then rather than put her out of her misery, tried to use her as a proxy to investigate the Shroud.

She's cold and arrogant, with no time for stupidity or social niceties. She seems to have turned into a borderline alcoholic, which was I think unintentional and moderately amusing. Despite all this, she is quite good at getting people to talk to her. She's driven by curiosity / lust for knowledge. Does this sound like anyone we know yet?

She is the illegitimate daughter of a Darkonese nobleman (erm, that is, the people who raised her are Darkonese nobles--so who is her real father? Go on, it's not that hard). She tried to get in to the Fraternity of Shadows but, being a woman, they wouldn't let her in. For some reason, Azalin is interested in her and holds high hopes for her progress around the Core. This quest (which, knowing Azalin as we do, can only involve an escape attempt from Ravenloft) somehow involves the Gentleman Caller and his children and various dukkars and Vistani outcasts, including the Tribe of Hyskosa who are dedicated to thwarting Azalin's schemes.

For what it's worth, I see the Gentleman Caller's place in Ravenloft as a trap to get Isolde stuck there, and having achieved that but failed to destroy her entirely, he now wants to get the hell out. So that could give you more a clue as to what Azalin plans. Or it may be a red herring.

Plus, Azalin gave her a bracelet that somehow protects her (or rather, her mission). After being killed in Verbrek, she woke up some time later in Valachan in a house that had been recently "cleared" by the Kargat.

I think this relates to Roots of Evil or From the Shadows if anyone wants to go try to work out what's actually going on.

-----

Those are the things I gathered quickly. Other facts we can add to this list?

Joël