Gazetteer Metaplot

Steve Miller · Post by **Steve Miller** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:27 am

Don Fernando wrote: If we can't solve a basic issue like the plot of the Gazetteers then something is really wrong.

Why? It's not something that impacts anyone's campaigns out there.

Lord Soth · Post by **Lord Soth** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:29 am

Actually, there were no copyright problems with Soth. Just ego problems.

Which is a shame, because along with Strahd and Azalin, Soth formed Ravenloft's evil "trinity". Especially disappointing seeing as how all parties could've had Soth without any problems. After all, time flows differently in Ravenloft then in other worlds, and the Mists are apparently capable of reaching into any era they choose. It wouldn't have been any problem at all to have kept Soth in Ravenloft for the next 200 years or whatever, and still had him return to Dragonlance a week after he left, if that's what was required. Oh well. Que sera, sera.

Mortepierre · Post by **Mortepierre** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:48 am

Green Knight wrote:Which is a shame, because along with Strahd and Azalin, Soth formed Ravenloft's evil "trinity". Especially disappointing seeing as how all parties could've had Soth without any problems. After all, time flows differently in Ravenloft then in other worlds, and the Mists are apparently capable of reaching into any era they choose. It wouldn't have been any problem at all to have kept Soth in Ravenloft for the next 200 years or whatever, and still had him return to Dragonlance a week after he left, if that's what was required. Oh well. Que sera, sera.

It's even worse than that. I really don't see the point of bringing him back to the DL universe just to be able to kill him (thereby insuring nobody else dare to "steal" again their oh-so-infamous dark knight)

At least in RL he had some purpose to fulfill. Bleh! Darn jealous folks

The Dark One · Post by **The Dark One** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:02 am

Well... but soth in Ravenloft had its impact on Margareth Weiss..

since if you read the Soth death passage in the War of Souls Trilogy, you got dubious expressions like: "in the darkness i could see her face one more time", and a entire "climax", that in my view, comes from the Ravenloft Lord Soth books, and not the Dragonlance Lord soth books.

Well... i am out of the discussion at least one month, since i will be without internet. And i just received a reply of Wizard saying that they don't have nothing in mind for Ravenloft at time, not even relaunching old novel books.

So the metaplot will stay for a long time in specul.... wishful thinking.

Response (Trevor K.) 11/20/2005 03:17 PM
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brothersale · Post by **brothersale** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:18 am

The Dark One wrote:
Matthew L. Martin wrote:A point I missed:

The Dark One wrote:Now defending my 5 appointments:

2 - S isn't a GC children, and neither a azalin clone - definitiv.
Why:

--- The clone thing is based on:
---- Azalin never would use one of his sons to a experiment (see King of Dead; Lord of Necropolis);
Ah, but he did. Lowellyn Dachine was one of Azalin's clones and was used as the test subject for the infernal machine.

Matthew L. Martin
Now i got you

There is a trouble when TSR make B.ll.h.t when transformed Lord of necropolis non canon. Since, if you take this non canon variant ( that i believe was the right one, since Gene make a very good psique of Azalin), you got that Dachine wasn't meant to enter the doomsday machine. He enter against the will of Azalin (or more because Azalin failure in watch him). Dachine believed that he had more "right" to enter that the one choosed be azalin to enter.

correction now you have shot yourself in the foot, re-read the book and you will find that Dachine (the clone) was going to be the test subject, but Azalin changed his mind near the completion of the device, so that he could use someone more loyal to him instead of physically similar. that said although i like the book it has been declare non-cannon and any information obtain from it is suspect as a result, and should not be used to prove points

Jonathan Winters · Post by **Jonathan Winters** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:50 pm

Yes, a lot of speculation...

And I understand Mr Mangrum being upset over telling fans one thing and then seeing fans running in the opposite direction.

My suggestion to solve this Mr Mangrum, if you are allowed under the terms of your contract with White Wolf, would be to release some kind of authors notes like a few of the other writers have done. Then we would have a definitive answer to the GAZ plot. And it need not be lost in the forum threads.

I admit to being very curious too as to where this was leading.

Just my two cents.

Thank you for your attention (and some damn good books).

Patrick

Matthew L. Martin · Post by **Matthew L. Martin** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:47 pm

The Dark One wrote:Well... but soth in Ravenloft had its impact on Margareth Weiss..

since if you read the Soth death passage in the War of Souls Trilogy, you got dubious expressions like: "in the darkness i could see her face one more time", and a entire "climax", that in my view, comes from the Ravenloft Lord Soth books

Given that Weis & Hickman have denied--vehemently and repeatedly--that Soth ever went to Ravenloft, I seriously doubt they took the events of his sojourn in Ravenloft into account, especially given that Spectre of the Black Rose ends with Soth impenitent, and Dragons of a Vanished Moon features a remorseful Soth.

Matthew L. Martin

Matthew L. Martin · Post by **Matthew L. Martin** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:48 pm

brothersale wrote:correction now you have shot yourself in the foot, re-read the book and you will find that Dachine (the clone) was going to be the test subject, but Azalin changed his mind near the completion of the device, so that he could use someone more loyal to him instead of physically similar. that said although i like the book it has been declare non-cannon and any information obtain from it is suspect as a result, and should not be used to prove points

More to the point, according to Death Ascendant, which is almost entirely canon (I think some of the Eternal Order details got tweaked slightly later on), Dachine was always the default choice.

Matthew L. Martin

Mangrum · Post by **Mangrum** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:41 pm

Jonathan Winters wrote:My suggestion to solve this Mr Mangrum, if you are allowed under the terms of your contract with White Wolf, would be to release some kind of authors notes like a few of the other writers have done. Then we would have a definitive answer to the GAZ plot. And it need not be lost in the forum threads.

See the entry for "Reality wrinkles, interest in clarifying."

Rucht Lilavivat · Post by **Rucht Lilavivat** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:45 pm

If the Gaz metaplot were revealed, wouldn't that spoil the fun for everyone here?

If people weren't interested in speculating and piecing it together for themselves, thread wouldn't have gone on this long.

Matthew L. Martin · Post by **Matthew L. Martin** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:00 pm

To throw another twist into the discussion, I'm going to throw out the guess I made back on December 1, 2003, in conversation with John Mangrum:

"Hear me, my tormentors! Either return my son to me, or we will tear this Land of Mists apart piece by piece!"--Azalin at the onset of the ToUD?

Matthew L. Martin

Jester of the FoS · Post by **Jester of the FoS** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:46 pm

Rucht Lilavivat wrote:If the Gaz metaplot were revealed, wouldn't that spoil the fun for everyone here?

If people weren't interested in speculating and piecing it together for themselves, thread wouldn't have gone on this long.

True, but we also want to know and could instead switch gears into speculating what the after effects would be.

Jonathan Winters · Post by **Jonathan Winters** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:18 pm

I agree with David of the Frat on this one.

Even if we knew, there are two kinds of players out there: Those that stick to canon and those that change things to a varying degree.

I hardly ever take everything as written in the books. I always change some stuff.

I also think most people would love to know what was to happen. This really shouldn't stop anybody being creative! On the contrary!

I hope I am making sense, I am very tired after a long day.

And thank you to the authors who take the time to visit and comment on this site!

Patrick

Lucius · Post by **Lucius** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:48 pm

I agree with both points of view, but I´m a very curious person.

alhoon · Post by **alhoon** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:14 am

And I'm interested to know the metaplot instead of just guessing.

Café de Nuit

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Gazetteer Metaplot

Mr Mangrum: How about author's notes?

Re: Mr Mangrum: How about author's notes?