Souragne project

Pamela · Post by **Pamela** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:33 pm

I am my own critic, thank you very much!

Jester of the FoS · Post by **Jester of the FoS** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:24 pm

Rotipher wrote:Even if these new Gazzes aren't written by S or delivered to Azalin, come to think of it, there really ought to be somebody kibbitzing in the margins and reading between the lines of the text. Those side-comments by S's "patron" were one of the best things about the Gaz series, IMHO, even when they had nothing to do with the metaplot: every writer needs a critic, after all.

I've thought about this. Given the new Gaz (aka Surveys) are written by a member of the Fraternity to the other members it would be easy to add their comments or critique of the work.
I decided not to on my half of the project. Simply because it was too-Kargatane. We're already following in their footsteps and steali... liberating their idea. Do we really need to rip-off their format as well?

Jester of the FoS · Post by **Jester of the FoS** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:42 pm

Rotipher wrote:And as long as I'm posting, here's a suggestion re. the whole slave/serf issue: while the locals today may claim they'd put an end to true slavery (as opposed to the debt-slavery that's still alive and well) out of compassion, that the slave-owners at the time of emancipation had actually been forced by circumstances (e.g. because their sudden isolation in Ravenloft meant they couldn't call in the military to enforce their power any longer) to either liberate their slaves or get slaughtered by a revolt. Claiming they'd deliberately released their slaves on charitable grounds is just a sop to the former masters' egos, so they can claim moral superiority rather than admit rank cowardice; after all, if their ancestors had considered slavery "uncivilized", they'd not have kept slaves in the first place!

That’s nice and logical -a good idea all around- but still a lot of effort into something that should be a very small part of the domain. It’s one facet and the gazetteers, unofficial or not, should focus on the broad spectrum of the land and it’s many features instead of debating, explaining and detailing a single facet ad naseum.

Slavery is a huge issue in our minds but it wasn’t back in the 1700. Or even the 1600s, which is about where Souragne. Heck, even as late as the 18th century it was liberal to suggest that blacks were physically and mentally less developed.

Plus it also doesn’t fit as well thematically. That was a good chunk of the impetus in reaching the decisions regarding slavery vs no-slavery.
Having them be forced to abolish slavery, even slight, removes the sting from the arrogant, blindingly obvious hypocrisy. “They’re not better off. You’re not civilized. You haven’t brought them culture. You didn’t do the right thing by them.” All of which is akin to “You’re not a gentleman and you’re not human, you’re an undead bully and a monster!”

Undead Cabbage · Post by **Undead Cabbage** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:10 pm

Hey Everyone,

I don't know if the Fraternity has already developed this, but I did a little homework and have written up a monster encounter list. Be sure to state if I've missed something/added something that shouldn't be there/this has already been done (in which case I'll delete the post).

Monster List:

1/6 Zombie; small, 1/4 Leech; Witchbane*, 1/3 Bat, Skeletal* 1/2 Bloodrose*, Zombie; Medium 1 Bat; Carrion*, Fearweed*, Ghoul, Grave elemental; small* 2 Crawling Ivy*, Crimson Bones*, Shoker Lizard 3 Bloodroot*, Drownling*, Ghast, Grave elemental; Medium*, Moorman*, Wight, Zombie; Cannibal*, Zombie; Large*, 4 Lashweed*, Sea Hag, Wight; Dread*, 5 Grave elemental; Large*, Troll 6 Annis, Doppleganger Plant*, Troll; Dread*, Wight; Greater*, Will-o-wisp, Zombie; Sea*, 7 Chuul, Naga; Water 8 Ghoul Lord*, Morg, Naga;Dark, Treant; Dread* 9 Death's head tree*, Grave elemental*; Greater, Undead Treat*, Zombie Lord*, 11Grave elemental; Elder*, 12 Golem;Zombie*

*Found in the Denizens of Dread

Bluebomber4evr · Post by **Bluebomber4evr** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:19 am

Undead Cabbage wrote:Hey Everyone,

I don't know if the Fraternity has already developed this, but I did a little homework and have written up a monster encounter list. Be sure to state if I've missed something/added something that shouldn't be there/this has already been done (in which case I'll delete the post).

Monster List:

1/6 Zombie; small, 1/4 Leech; Witchbane*, 1/3 Bat, Skeletal* 1/2 Bloodrose*, Zombie; Medium 1 Bat; Carrion*, Fearweed*, Ghoul, Grave elemental; small* 2 Crawling Ivy*, Crimson Bones*, Shoker Lizard 3 Bloodroot*, Drownling*, Ghast, Grave elemental; Medium*, Moorman*, Wight, Zombie; Cannibal*, Zombie; Large*, 4 Lashweed*, Sea Hag, Wight; Dread*, 5 Grave elemental; Large*, Troll 6 Annis, Doppleganger Plant*, Troll; Dread*, Wight; Greater*, Will-o-wisp, Zombie; Sea*, 7 Chuul, Naga; Water 8 Ghoul Lord*, Morg, Naga;Dark, Treant; Dread* 9 Death's head tree*, Grave elemental*; Greater, Undead Treat*, Zombie Lord*, 11Grave elemental; Elder*, 12 Golem;Zombie*

*Found in the Denizens of Dread

I'd like to add to that, if you don't mind.

From Monsters of Faerun: Crawling Claw (CR 1/3); Dark Tree (CR 7); Lycanthrope-Werecrocodile (CR 6)

From Monster Manual II: Catoblepas (CR 6); Crimson Death (CR 11); Darktentacles (CR 7); Dire Animal, Dire Toad (CR 3); Famine Spirit (CR 19); Gravecrawler (CR 16); Greenvise (CR 10); Leechwalker (CR 10); Mudmaw (CR 7); Red Sundew (CR 13); Swamplight Lynx (CR 7)

From Fiend Folio: Ahuizotl (CR 6); Aquatic Ooze, Bloodbloater (CR 1); Aquatic Ooze, Flotsam Ooze (CR 2); Crypt Thing (CR 3); Kelpie (CR 10); Necrophidius (CR 2); Octopus Tree (CR 12); Vine Horror (CR 4); Yellow Musk Creeper (CR 4)

From Monster Manual III: Drowned (CR 8 ); Golem, Mud Golem (CR 11); Night Twist (CR 12); Swamp Strider Swarm (CR 5)

From Oriental Adventures: Toad, Giant (CR 2)

From Libris Mortis: The Book of Undead: Blaspheme (CR 9); Bloodmote Cloud (CR 6); Corpse Rat Swarm (CR 4); Deathlock (CR 3); Dire Maggot (CR 2); Grave Dirt Golem (CR 9); Slaymate (CR 2); Tomb Mote (CR 2)

Also, from some d20 books:

From Tome of Horrors: Algoid (CR 4); Boalisk (CR 4); Bog Mummy (CR 6); Boggart (CR 7); Brown Pudding (CR 7); Bunyip (CR 3); Coffer Corpse (CR 3); Crayfish, Monstrous (CR 3); Crystal Ooze (CR 4); Dragonfish (CR 2); Dragonfly, Giant (CR 4); Fen Witch (CR 5); Fly, Giant (CR 2); Frog, Monstrous-Giant Frog (CR 2); Frog, Monstrous-Giant Dire Frog (CR 4); Frog, Monstrous-Killer Frog (CR 1); Frog, Monstrous-Poisonous Frog (CR 1); Froghemoth (CR 13); Hangman Tree (CR 6); Haunt (CR 4); Jupiter Bloodsucker (CR 3); Kelpie (CR 4); Kelp Devil (CR 8 ); Leech, Giant (CR 2); Mandragora (CR 1/2); Memory Moss (CR 5); Muckdweller (CR 1/4); Mudman (CR 1); Mustard Jelly (CR 7); Rot Grub (CR 4); Spinal Leech (CR 2); Strangle Weed (CR 3); Throat Leech (CR 4); Tri-Flower Frond (CR 2); Turtle, Giant Snapping (CR 9); Zombie, Brine Zombie (CR 1); Zombie, Juju Zombie (CR 1-25, depending on size); Therianthrope-Foxwere (CR 2)

Note the kelpie in this book is different from the kelpie in the Fiend Folio.

From Bestiary of Krynn: Swarm, Turbidus Leech (CR 10); Black Willow (CR 13); Kani Doll (CR 1); Qlippoth (CR 4); Wyndlass (CR 10)

Kel-nage · Post by **Kel-nage** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:11 am

Bluebomber4evr wrote:
Also, from some d20 books:

From Tome of Horrors

From Bestiary of Krynn

If I remember correctly, d20 books are still a no-go for Ravenloft, as they're OGL and Ravenloft isn't a OGL setting (well, it wasn't).

Bluebomber4evr · Post by **Bluebomber4evr** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:51 pm

Kel-nage wrote:
Bluebomber4evr wrote:
Also, from some d20 books:

From Tome of Horrors

From Bestiary of Krynn

If I remember correctly, d20 books are still a no-go for Ravenloft, as they're OGL and Ravenloft isn't a OGL setting (well, it wasn't).

What does that have to do with providing a list of suitable monsters from those books? The folks over at athas.org listed suitable monsters from non-WOTC books (such as the Tome of Horrors) in their 3.X Dark Sun monster book, why couldn't we do the same?

It's not like we'd be taking material out of those books, which is what the OGL is about.

EDIT: Tome of Horrors is OGL anyway...but as I said, I don't think that comes into play if all you're doing is just listing stuff from those books that can be used. OGL is for actually taking the written content out of those books and re-printing them elsewhere.

The Giamarga · Post by **The Giamarga** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:21 am

Catoblepas?!? I don't know...

We need to add some more fey and plant creatures to that! For fey at least the Bogeymen from DT&DL but perhaps also Nymphs/dryads.

Joël of the FoS · Post by **Joël of the FoS** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:34 pm

We have covered the monster list already, but I'll review it with you guys list to make sure I didn't forget anything.

---

Speaking of Fey, what kind of basic stats would you give to the Maiden of the Swamp?

Joël

alhoon · Post by **alhoon** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:00 pm

Fey, 12 HD at least. Pretty smart and very charismatic.

I would consider her as a 12th level spellcaster as a sorcerer but with many druid spells as spells known. That is not the standard handful of known spells but say 15 1st level spells, 15 2nd, 12 3rd, 10 4th, 7 5th and 5 6th level spells known allowing her a vast versatility over nature.

Also can we use Spell compedium when proposing?

Bluebomber4evr · Post by **Bluebomber4evr** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:45 pm

The Giamarga wrote:Catoblepas?!? I don't know...

We need to add some more fey and plant creatures to that! For fey at least the Bogeymen from DT&DL but perhaps also Nymphs/dryads.

I'm a bit iffy about the catoblepas myself, but I figured if the Shadow Rift can have merman and lizardfolk (Gaz V pg. 105) and Hazlan can have lamias, otyughs, and owlbears (Gaz I pg. 46) and Invidia can have ankhegs and fomorian giants (Gaz IV pg. 44), then a catoblepas or two wouldn't be all that out of place for Souragne.

The bogeymen from DT&DL seemed more like unique NPCs with a template then a standard monster type to be listed in an encounter chart, so that's why I didn't list them.

And I tried to list as many plant monsters as I could from the sources I have.

The Giamarga · Post by **The Giamarga** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:00 pm

Joël of the Fraternity wrote:Speaking of Fey, what kind of basic stats would you give to the Maiden of the Swamp?

Joël

In my notes it's she's a hamadryad Sor9/Druid9 (2E stats), but I'm not sure from which source i got that info.

EDIT: The info is from the Book of Sorrows, The Boccoru article. The Maiden of the Swamp is loa of Life (a hamadryad with spellcasting as 9th lvl boccoru/9th lvl mage)

So for 3E I'd say (perhaps advanced) hamadryad Sor/Druid or perhaps Voodan? (They do get sorcerer and druid spells after all) And here I thought she was a nymph, but then againhamadryads are called Wood Nymphs too.

But which base stats to use for a hamadryad?

Carcer · Post by **Carcer** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:04 am

Have veves (the voodoo symbols for various loa) ever been a part of Souragne?

Perhaps something could be done based upon them.

Pamela · Post by **Pamela** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:24 am

Another matter I'm interested is whether the Maiden of the Swamp or Misroi get enhanced powers when invoked/addressed as loas?

Joël of the FoS · Post by **Joël of the FoS** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:11 am

Carcer wrote:Have veves (the voodoo symbols for various loa) ever been a part of Souragne?

Perhaps something could be done based upon them.

Yes, for your info this was covered in Dark Tales & Disturbing legends. We expanded that info in the FoS Souragne Gaz.

Joël

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Souragne project