False Histories?

[DamienJ]

I've wondered this for a long time, but never bothered to ask. Has anyone written anything on the "false" histories of each domain? Obviously, each domain, especially those of the Core, have both a real history (e.g. "created in 694 B.C. from the Mists) and a false one (founded by Charles the Conquerer when he drove back the Horde, etc...).

But what would a character know about his own domain's history? In the case of some domains, there are inhabitants of the domain who are "older" than the domain itself. For example, many domains were formed in the 690's B.C. What would natives to those domains who are older than 70 years "remember?" What would they teach about their domain's "ancient history?" Would other domains include them in their histories? Thus, would Borca (which is "older" than Richemulot) have written histories including Richemulot predating 684, or would their history books simply say: "694 B.C. - A new land has suddenly appeared north of us."

On a related subject, considering that Barovia is not the most economically, militarily, scientifically, or even socially powerful domain of Ravenloft, why do characters from Ravenloft use the Barovian Calander? Yeah yeah, I know, it's the heart of Ravenloft, big deal. The players know that, but do the characters realize it? Wouldn't it make more sense to use a Dementlieu calander, or even one from Darkon?

Heh, I hope all that was more or less understandable...

I have my own thoughts on all this, but I want to ehar everyone else's opinion first...

[Glim]

About the Borcan History books.
I believe the Dark Powers have all these domains, including inhabitants, and histories 'on the shelf', constantly evolving, and insert them into their experiment when they see fit, so I'm inclinded to the idea of "new lands hava appeared around us" at the date the domain got placed.


About the Barovian Calendar:
I think Azalin (who probably IS aware of Barovia being the first domain) kind of stole the Barovian Calendar and introduced it to Darkon under the guise of Kings Calendar. And since Darkon IS (or at least was, before the Grim Harvest) the most economically, militarily, scientifically, or even socially powerful domain, it spread trough the core from there.

That explains the numbering, just not the B.C.

The Kings Calendar reference can be found in the Tales of Ravenloft Book, in the story 'The Crucible of Dr. Rudolph Van Richten', which I accidentally re-read yesterday

[DamienJ]

Ah, thanks for explaining the King's Calander. That makes sense!

For my part, I like to think of the DP's messing with the people's minds. Thus, I would say that each domain has a false history, at least for its inhabitants. E.g., a character from [pick a domain] could tell his family's geneology back three hundred years, though the domain has only existed for 150. However, I'm still debating whether this history would include other domains or not. I just don't know how a domain, especially one of the Advanced domains, could have a real history without interacting with other "nations..."

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

In the Gazetteer series, S is able to guess at the date of creation of different domains based on confirmed connections to other domains. So while everyone might think Dementlieu was always next to Falkovnia, the records won't show any mention of Falkovnia before a certain date. (just an example I made up, no time to research).

In some cases, though mentions are false. Like the "Invidian Occupation" of Kartakass's false history. The Kartakans think they were occupied by Invidians. The Invidians know nothing about it.

Lots of the false history of all the domains is fleshed out in the Gaz series. If you're looking for false history, pick them up from S&S before they're gone.

[Bluebomber4evr]

I've wondered this for a long time, but never bothered to ask. Has anyone written anything on the "false" histories of each domain? Obviously, each domain, especially those of the Core, have both a real history (e.g. "created in 694 B.C. from the Mists) and a false one (founded by Charles the Conquerer when he drove back the Horde, etc...).

Actually not every domain has a false history. Some domains actually have a history that makes a mention of the world changing, and some do not mention this but have pre-Ravenloft history which is true.

Domains with a true history that mentions the world changing when entering Ravenloft are:

-Barovia (described as "the Mists descending" on the nation after the events of Sergei's wedding and later "revealing" new nations that had not previously existed)
-Forlorn (The Year of Woe describes in detail the land being physically wrenched from its original Prime Material World and being relocated in Ravenloft)
-Shadow Rift/Arak (discounting time fugue)(The Shadow Fey remember their history prior to entering the demiplane)

Domains with a true pre-Ravenloft history that may or may not mention the world changing when entering the demiplane:

-All 3 lands of the Shadowborn Cluster (Nidala, Avonleigh, Shadowborn Manor)
-Har'Akir
-Staunton Bluffs
-The Wildlands
-Nosos

Anomalies:

-Nova Vaasa (As described in Gaz V, some pre-Ravenloft history for this domain is true, and some history is quite false--no doubt a reflection of its darklord's duality)
-Mordent (it's not quite clear if Azalin and Strahd really did pull this land into the demiplane or if they created it wholecloth from Strahd's subconscious or the Dark Powers were toying with them...so I honestly can't tell if this land was ever real before Ravenloft or not)
-Sithicus (the elves know they were brought to Ravenloft from another world [Krynn] to specifically vex Soth, but I don't know how much more they know of their home than that...it would have made sense if they couldn't remember much as that would have only enraged Soth further...I'm also not sure if they do remember now that Inza's the darklord)
-Keening (technically a true history, as the domain was part of Arak and was formed entirely within the demiplane...though Tristessa's memories of events are obviously clouded)

Domains with patently false histories:
-Darkon
-Falkovnia
-Dementlieu
-Richemulot
-Kartakass
-Hazlan
-Valachan
-Lamordia
-Invidia
-Vechor (not detailed in 3.x ed., but it's a fair assumption that the people of this land didn't come here with Easan and they don't know his history)
-Verbrek
-Tepest

Domains I'm not sure about:
-Borca (The Dilisnya family was in Barovia when it became part of Ravenloft, so I don't know how much of their history is false or true)
-G'Henna(same as the Dilisnyas...also, I haven't read Circle of Darkness and not enough of the history of this domain has been revealed in other products...though if Zhakata is a big part of its history it would definitely be false)
-Markovia (same as Dilisnyas and Petrovnas, and I've never read Neither Man Nor Beast and its history was never detailed in 3.X ed.)
-Souragne (I've never read Dance of the Dead, so I don't know if any history was detailed in that or not)

Domains that lack enough detail to determine a false history:
-Saragoss
-Sri Raji
-Paridon
-Timor
-Blaustein
-Ghastria
-Liffe
-L'Ile de Tempete
-Isle of Ravens
-Sebua
-Pharazia
-Bluetspur
-The Nightmare Lands (domain is detailed but the darklord's history has never been revealed)
-Sea of Sorrows
-Nocturnal Sea
-Davion (he's crazy so who knows what's real and what isn't)
-other various pocket domains (House of Lament, Phantom Lover's domain, Lemot Juste's domain, etc.)

That's all I can think of at the moment, sorry if I forgot any. If anyone more familiar with this stuff knows something I missed or got wrong, please correct it.

[DamienJ]

Ah, that's very interesting. And confusing. I'll have to go study up on each domain's history before I try using said domain...yay for Gaz's.

[Boccaccio Barbarossa]

Don't sweat it too much. We generally assume, as a group, that you can trace back geneologies as far back as you want!

Another thing - we like to think of the world changing as being explained in history books as "the king of Heliamnura was deposed. And new despote arose from his ashes, _(insert darklord name)_ and he renamed his land X."

We're generally pretty fluid. It's part of Ravenloft that knowledge of the past should be hazy.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Borca (The Dilisnya family was in Barovia when it became part of Ravenloft, so I don't know how much of their history is false or true)

Actually, Borca (including pre-Conjunction Dorvinia) may be considered a special case, in that the majority of its early history is substantiated by historical records from Barovia. "Borjia", i.e. the Material Plane region that Ravenloft's "Borca" recapitulates, was evidently the true homeland of all the Balok-speaking "great families" -- it's where the Dilisnyas, Boritsis, Petrovnas, etc, all lived; it's also the region to which the old Von Zarovich royals would've fallen back, when the Tergs invaded, and where both Sturm and Sergei would have grown up -- so prior to the wedding massacre at Castle Ravenloft, we can consider Borca's history as valid as Barovia's. Only the period between 351 BC, and the addition of Camille's and Ivan's domains to the Core, is probable "false history" ... unless, of course, Gaz IV's "Vacancy" really did happen IYC and Borca existed as an oubliette until then.

G'Henna and Markovia seem to be constructed to reflect their respective darklords' derangements, not actual Material Plane locations or cultures. While Yagno's domain might borrow aspects from old Borjian religious imagery and the like, its cruel landscape partakes of too many fantasy-elements to have ever been real -- at least, not as part of the same low-magic world that the Von Zaroviches et al seem to have originated on -- and Markov's domain is totally unpopulated apart from his broken ones. That doesn't match up with the land-hungry attitudes we see in the early Balok families (or the Tergs, for that matter!) in "I, Strahd" and other sources: if there really were such vast tracts of wilderness on hand, that anyone with a mind to could settle afresh, Strahd wouldn't have had to be quite so paranoid about protecting his land from his neighbors.

[DamienJ]

I just got the GazI & III today, and they do have alot of answers to this question. I get the impression that characters from Ravenloft don't trouble themselves alot with this question. They just kind of exist. Of course, considering how things were in the real Medieval or Dark Ages (or later, for that matter...), it's not too surprising that people don't remember much beyond the stories of their grandparents. Imagine if all we knew of our country was what our parents had told us?

I think sometimes it's hard (for me at least) to remember how little information characters would have had.

[Boccaccio Barbarossa]

./..and the great thing about word of mout is that it's notoriously inacurate, and mostly symbolic, so it doesn't HAVE to be right to bne TRUE.

[DamienJ]

hmm...I'm not sure I'm trackin'...how would it be true without being right? Do you mean, that perhaps it's true inasmuch as it's what Peasant X has been told his whole life, and his father before him, and his father before him? So, it's true just because it's what's been told for a hundred generations...

[Boccaccio Barbarossa]

it's tryue enough that it can't be disproven. I say "Our family has lived here for 250 years." Even though the land has only existed in Ravenloft for, say, 100, it might still be true in the minds of the peasant in question - he doesn't realise that he's in Ravenloft now.

All I meant to suggest is - don't feel too confined by the histories / false historie. Many realms in Rav seem too young, so false history is required to make them feel more established.

[Jester of the FoS]

Couple additions.

The average person doesn't think land's appeared. There must be land there, it was always there, it was simply covered by a large thick Mist. One day the Mist lifted and they could finally communicate with the people there.

The Barovian Calendar is also a trade calendar. Because of the mountain pass there one must travel through Barovia to get east or west with the mountains blocking all other travel. A common system of time helps people co-ordinate.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Note that the inhabitants of Ravenloft probably do recognize that their world is rather "plactic" in its physical geography -- the Great Upheaval surely made that too obvious to miss -- but they won't generally see this as "unnatural", to the degree that a Material Plane native might. It's scary and weird and inexplicable, yes ... but it's the only example of what's "normal" they have to go by, so they'd likely lump such shiftings together with earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, and other disasters: nasty and dangerous -- perhaps a form of divine retribution or the malice of the Mists -- yet a normal part of how the world works.

One other reason the Barovian calander prevails in the Core is that it synchs up correctly with seasonal changes in weather and with celestial phenomena (e.g. solstices and equinoxes). New-made domains lose their old seasonal and day/night cycles in favor of Barovia's, IIRC -- indeed, in some cases (like the Nocturnal Sea) even the length of a year will change (Mystaran years are 360 days long) -- so it makes sense that most lands would switch to a calander that doesn't, say, place the Harvest Festival in late January.

OTOH, the names for days of the month seem to have come from Mordent, and were later grafted onto the Barovian calander. There are numerous dates in the I10 module's sample Hand-This-To-Your-Players documents, which use the IRL English names for months. These imports from Mordent were likely adopted Core-wide, because Barovian months had originally only been numbered, not named (e.g. in VotM, Strahd's diary lists dates as "Xth Moon, Day YZ", etc).

[DamienJ]

Thanks! Of course, to me, being a simple Material Plane inhabitant, things like an entire country changing positions (e.g. Valachan) would be a bit disconcerting. But then I forget how the average Ravenloftian views such things. When I think that they even consider the Misty border to be normal, then I have to change perspectives, to accept quite a bit more. Heh, one of the joys of RP'ing...

So, Rule I - histories are only true inasmuch as people believe them

Rule II - don't forget the Mists (i.e. all the stuff we would consider bizzare, which Ravenloftians think normal...)