Paridon Gazetteer

[Rotipher of the FoS]

It'd be as if the caverns she now occupies are haunting the Marikith Queen with the memories of the human world she's cut off from, by recreating the city's greatest landmarks -- but not the people and social liveliness that'd made it worth living in; that, she can only listen to through the sewer pipes and fume over being shut out of ... a suitable reason for her to hate the dopplers, who can join in Paridon society, as much as (or more than) the humans! -- down in the depths.

I don't know... I like that she's filled with self-loathing about herself, but I also like that she is more concerned with the prosperty of the Hive and making sure it grows. Besides, her constant paranoia about being replaced the way she replaced her mother is a more interesting prospect over all.

Especially if the stolen egg hatches a completely human looking queen.

So why not split the difference? On the one hand, she regrets not being able to be part of human society, and envies the dopplers (and also this hypothetical human-looking offspring) their ability to live among people. On the other, she could have convinced herself that if she can make the Hive prosper and grow to dominate the cluster, she'll give rise to her own society -- one created in her own image, and utterly subserviant to her whims -- so won't have any need to be jealous of mere, puny humans, any longer. It gives her a motive for spreading the Hive which is more purely selfish and evil, not just instinctive: far, far better, for a darklord.

[Tobias Blackburn]

It'd be as if the caverns she now occupies are haunting the Marikith Queen with the memories of the human world she's cut off from, by recreating the city's greatest landmarks -- but not the people and social liveliness that'd made it worth living in; that, she can only listen to through the sewer pipes and fume over being shut out of ... a suitable reason for her to hate the dopplers, who can join in Paridon society, as much as (or more than) the humans! -- down in the depths.

I don't know... I like that she's filled with self-loathing about herself, but I also like that she is more concerned with the prosperty of the Hive and making sure it grows. Besides, her constant paranoia about being replaced the way she replaced her mother is a more interesting prospect over all.

Especially if the stolen egg hatches a completely human looking queen.

So why not split the difference? On the one hand, she regrets not being able to be part of human society, and envies the dopplers (and also this hypothetical human-looking offspring) their ability to live among people. On the other, she could have convinced herself that if she can make the Hive prosper and grow to dominate the cluster, she'll give rise to her own society -- one created in her own image, and utterly subserviant to her whims -- so won't have any need to be jealous of mere, puny humans, any longer.

Sounds good. But I still think that her big curse should be her fear of her own off-spring. With a dread possibility of it being born human looking.

I also have a question for the group about "Queen Anne". Is it absolutely necessary that she be a succubus? The Dread Realms already has Elspeth to fill it's succubus needs. Why not have her as a Enyries? They're more likely to try to rise to the top of a political structure anyway.

[William Blackmoor]

They should be a present and consistent threat, but there should be wide areas where they have no influence and it should be possible to have many, many adventures where Marikith are not even glimpsed.

Sadly this seems not to be the picture the canon material describes. Most expeditions of Paridon either vanished or returned rather in fear.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

I still think that her big curse should be her fear of her own off-spring. With a dread possibility of it being born human looking.

Nothing wrong with giving her a two-element curse! Something along a "reap what you have sown" theme would cover both aspects of her fate: on the one hand, she's trapped in the form she'd assumed to kill her mother, hence denied the very rulership over humans she'd coveted and sought to prematurely steal from the rightful queen; on the other, she fears the curse means her mother's own fate also awaits her and that she, too, will someday be displaced by her daughter.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

They should be a present and consistent threat, but there should be wide areas where they have no influence and it should be possible to have many, many adventures where Marikith are not even glimpsed.

Sadly this seems not to be the picture the canon material describes. Most expeditions of Paridon either vanished or returned rather in fear.

That doesn't have to mean the marikith were responsible for all of those expeditions' disappearances. Who knows what else might be down there, that doesn't want to be found?

[William Blackmoor]

I don't know... I like that she's filled with self-loathing about herself, but I also like that she is more concerned with the prosperty of the Hive and making sure it grows.

I seem to remember that she doesn't care for the Hive at all.

I also have a question for the group about "Queen Anne". Is it absolutely necessary that she be a succubus? The Dread Realms already has Elspeth to fill it's succubus needs. Why not have her as a Enyries? They're more likely to try to rise to the top of a political structure anyway.

I chose the succubus, because I don't like the DnD concept of the lawful erinyes. They fit the same "tempter"-role but I think the succubus is more fitting. I want her reality wrinkel to supplement the chaotic situation of the City and creatures like red widows or vampyres among the courtesans of Blackchapel and the decadent nobels of King's Quarter.
But apart from that it's more or less a matter of my personal taste.

[Undead Cabbage]

So why not split the difference? On the one hand, she regrets not being able to be part of human society, and envies the dopplers (and also this hypothetical human-looking offspring) their ability to live among people. On the other, she could have convinced herself that if she can make the Hive prosper and grow to dominate the cluster, she'll give rise to her own society -- one created in her own image, and utterly subserviant to her whims -- so won't have any need to be jealous of mere, puny humans, any longer. It gives her a motive for spreading the Hive which is more purely selfish and evil, not just instinctive: far, far better, for a darklord.

Actually, Rotipher, this is a really good interpretation for the Queen. To be honest up until this point I've always found her curse a little hard to grasp.

Another dimension might be that however the Queen finds humanity weak, she herself longs for social interaction and care from those around her. However, she can never have the relationships from her Marikiths that one has with a human.

I also like the idea that parts of Timor reflect Paridon.

The sewers shouldn't be overrun with Marikith anymore than Barovia is overrun by vampires or Karatakas is overrun by wolfweres.
They should be a present and consistent threat, but there should be wide areas where they have no influence and it should be possible to have many, many adventures where Marikith are not even glimpsed.

This also helps the problem of how Paridon hasn't become overrun by the Marikiths.

The hardest trick beind Timor is not making it another underdark. What will need to be stressed is that it is a sewer system/ant hill rather than a dungeon. One way this can be done is to make attacks by Marikiths overwhelming. Attacking one Marikith would automatically alert the entire hive, resulting in the adventuring party having to escape for their lives. Otherwise, if they face the Marikiths in 'casual encounters', it will become a dungeon crawl.

However Timor is its own domain, as is Paridon, really the two come together to make one picture. This works because Timor's relationship with Paridon is sort of like a form of Parasitism. This is a parralell to the Darklords, as Sodo and the Queen are both parasites (albeit different types of Parasites). Timor should be done as part of Paridon culture, and the same should be done Vice versa. Chunking them apart would defeat the purpose behind their dual-existance.

20-25 pages out of 80 sounds about right for Timor. The concept does not need a lot of explanation, however it also can't be brushed off as it is an important part of the cluster.

[William Blackmoor]

That doesn't have to mean the marikith were responsible for all of those expeditions' disappearances. Who knows what else might be down there, that doesn't want to be found?

I think the marikith are quite terretorial. After all I read about Timor, I think the concept is more like the "Alien"-setting. I don't like Timor in it's presented form, so I would opt for parts of the sewers, that are still part of Paridon.

This also helps the problem of how Paridon hasn't become overrun by the Marikiths.

Also I offered a differnt solution in my notes to this problem (see dread possibility "The Hidden War")

[Undead Cabbage]

Nathan and David,

Thank you for the posted list and letter!

We've been discussing locations recently. Currently I've been looking over the Map in 'Hour of te Knife' and trying to think how to implement it. We're looking at making it part of an area known as 'Blackchapel', albeit I'd like to make it a small section of the upper part.

Also I offered a differnt solution in my notes to this problem (see dread possibility "The Hidden War") Smile

The dread possibility works, but it kind of isolates Paridon a bit too much. Timor is an important part of the picture, and I also think that the populace shouldn't just casually know about either the dopplegangers or the Marikith infestation. It kind of takes the suspence away from it if a Zheresian walks up to a body on the street and says 'oh, must be the ol'd dopplers up to their own tricks again'.

[Tobias Blackburn]

That doesn't have to mean the marikith were responsible for all of those expeditions' disappearances. Who knows what else might be down there, that doesn't want to be found?

I think the marikith are quite terretorial. After all I read about Timor, I think the concept is more like the "Alien"-setting. I don't like Timor in it's presented form, so I would opt for parts of the sewers, that are still part of Paridon.

But that would go completely against canon. The exact composition and what lives in the sewers have never been discussed, so it is very easy to add other things in there, even underground remains of other cities. Shoving Timor off to a small section of the sewer does make sense. You might as well expand the mists and bring back all of the farmland again.

And your explanation of Queen Anne does make sense. I guess I havea lot of difficulty imagining a succubus desiring political power like that.

[Jester of the FoS]

Again, just because the entire sewers are part of Timor doesn't mean the top levels can't be functional. If there are fewer Marikith (a single large nest wose numbers are kept in check by diet and unwillingness to exhaust a food source again) then there might be wide stretches of Marikith-free territory.
Having the entire domain/sewer be a giant one-monster deathtrap is both bland and boring.

It's not going against canon to suggest that there's more to the sewer, it's expanding on it. Making it less of a single-note, one-trick pony. Just like the 'real' Gazetteers tried to make other domains functional and more than just encounters with the darklord, we have to do the same.

Timor NEEDs to be more. There NEEDs to be inhabitants of some kind. A range. Diverity.

And there's nothing really gothic about a bunch of unkillable, motiveless Aliens in a giant underground hive. That's just mindless chunks of xp, generic monster X in a 10' by 10' room guarding a chest.
It shouldn't be Aliens where there are thousands of the things and only a couple foriegn humans and the trick is to blast them all. It should be Alien where there is *something* that is possibly unkillable and stalking you.

Some thought still needs to be put into how each land reflects the lord.

[William Blackmoor]

But that would go completely against canon. The exact composition and what lives in the sewers have never been discussed, so it is very easy to add other things in there, even underground remains of other cities. Shoving Timor off to a small section of the sewer does make sense. You might as well expand the mists and bring back all of the farmland again.

There are some short quotes for the rather limited non-mariktih life within Timor (i think i remember centipedes). Maybe i should clarify the idea: the first level of the sewers belongs to Paridon, but marktih may still wander into it, but are trapped if Sodo closes the Border. Timor would still be below the whole of Paridon, but with the upper level being part of Paridon it would enable normal adventures, without to much marikith interference.
Marikith are not social creatures and i can't imagine them sharing their realm with other overly dangerous/intelligent creatures.

And your explanation of Queen Anne does make sense. I guess I havea lot of difficulty imagining a succubus desiring political power like that

Think about the fun a succubus would have as a queen with her (political) power. Beloved by the common people, who are quite charmed by her of course

[Jester of the FoS]

And why can't Timor be an Underdark? Just because most 'Loft fans don't like dungeon crawls doesn't mean everyone does. It's just hard to realisticly have dungeon crawls in this setting.
Making Timor a possible Underdark or Undermountain is a nice compromise, if done in a restrained and thematic fashion. Like Darkon is halfway between high and low fantasy Timor could be halfway between non-crawls and crawls.

Just remember that Timor is LARGER than Paridon. Timor covers most of the same length and width -most of the city- but also has layers and layers. Working sewer and older, abandoned sewer. Ancient aqueducts, catacombs, ruins of ancient streets and buildings, biys of old Timor collapsed in sink-holes, natural caverns and more.
For that entire area to be teeming with Marikith, there'd have to be a population larger than that of Paridon. They'd starve in a matter of months.
And the Queen wouldn't like that, not again.

[Undead Cabbage]

Some thought still needs to be put into how each land reflects the lord.

I've been wrestling with this a bit. Here are some of my thoughts:

One theme is competition. Sodo eliminated whatever stood in his way to become the doppleganger elder. He knew what he wanted, and he took it. I think this can be played out with Paridon's middle class. Paridon is the only place where someone of common background can gain the wealth of a nobleman. This reflects Sodo's ascension into the highest member of his Doppleganger clan.

I pictured Paridon as a very Social Egoist society. Everyone is self serving in Paridon. Even its prime religion is centered around self perfection. This reflects Sodo's selfishness when he eliminated the elder dopplegangers in his clan. I'd like to confine 2/3 of Paridon's population to 1/4 of the area (Blackchapel), with the rest being exploited unevenly by middle-upper classmen. Sodo wanted more than his fair share, and so all resources in Paridon are unevenly distributed.

Another theme is 'what lurks beneath'. The idea of a serial killer (i.e. blood jack) is itself a doppleganger in that serial killers can be ANY one. Within each of us is the potential to become a serial killer. Serial killers, unlike vampires or werewolves, do not leave scientific evidence of themselves (or atleast, when they do, its to cover for their nature). Paridon is a very dense city that hides a lot of potential for harm in it (the butcher street boarding house, timor, the dopple ganger clans, I know I'd like to play out the fairy tale about London bridge in a dread possibility).

I have plenty more. Just I'm cooking dinner right now.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

So why not split the difference? On the one hand, she regrets not being able to be part of human society, and envies the dopplers (and also this hypothetical human-looking offspring) their ability to live among people. On the other, she could have convinced herself that if she can make the Hive prosper and grow to dominate the cluster, she'll give rise to her own society -- one created in her own image, and utterly subserviant to her whims -- so won't have any need to be jealous of mere, puny humans, any longer. It gives her a motive for spreading the Hive which is more purely selfish and evil, not just instinctive: far, far better, for a darklord.

Another dimension might be that however the Queen finds humanity weak, she herself longs for social interaction and care from those around her. However, she can never have the relationships from her Marikiths that one has with a human.

Fair enough, though I'd think a craving to be admired by lackeys (as opposed to loved for real) would be more in line with her history as one shallow, callous *****.

In fact, playing up the fact that the marikiths' robotic lack of genuine loyalty or affection really, really infuriates the Queen -- who might even haul off and slaughter a bunch of her hunter-drones every once in a while (thus depleting their numbers a bit), while they just stand there stupidly and take it; yet more galling proof that their obedience is instinctive, not heartfelt -- would help emphasize how she's been denied her dream of being legitimately revered and honored, in the way her mother was ... while avoiding the trap of having her seem too much like Jacqueline Renier's ideal pen pal.