Gothic Orient
Try something more grounded in historical figures. A look down Chinese history will show plenty of despots, enlightened-but-doomed rulers, and victorious and vainglorious leaders, just like an any European kingdom.
Qin Shi Huang: The "Chin" emperor who started it all off. This emperor lived long before the Common Era, and shed much blood in uniting the peoples and various kingdoms into one political entity. He was despotic and tyrannical, killing many academicians and civil servants who disagreed with him. However, by the same token, he was a canny political manipulator who picked and chose his philosophical allies carefully. He standardized weights, distances, and even the width of imperial highways. In a very real sense, he was China's archtype of Europe's Roman Empire - efficient, brutal, and calculating.
How do we make him a tragic figure? In real history, his dynasty - supposed to last for 10,000 years, actually collapsed shortly after his own death. His progeny of future rulers was quickly eliminated, leaving his monuments (Terra Cotta Army, vast portions of the Great Wall) as testament to a will that did not stand the test of time. However, his example spurred others to unite the country and keep it united. One legend also states that he feared death - it is said he assembled a shipload of men and women and sent them over the ocean to retrieve the Elixir of Life, on pain of death. Not surprisingly, the young men and women stayed away, and it is said they founded the island nation of Japan.
Personally, such a character could be Lawful Neutral to an extreme, such that (like Azalin Rex) he will sacrifice those who are nearest and dearest to him in pursuit of an unwavering code of ethics. Emperor Qin crushed many a feudal lord, and quashed numerous insurrections, but he must have slept uneasily with the fear of betrayal constantly at his back. In the end, his death could be one born of despair, knowing that even he must die, and watching as his empire crumbles afterwards.
For Ravenloft, set him as an Ancient Dead of the highest possible magnitude, and place him in a massive, ornate tomb complex like the Terra Cotta Army. (Inanimate clay golems, anybody?) This emperor's palace may be so holy (or unholy) that it counts as a small domain on its own, roughly the size of a large city, and that nobody will go near it for fear of a curse. The Emperor is easily the most powerful of all the darklords on this Asian themed area, but a special curse immobilizes him so he can mostly only watch as the surrounding kingdoms fight amongst themselves in disarray. Unlike the example set by Falkovnia, the Emperor's armies are terrifyingly efficient and could conquer much of the surrounding territories... but for now, they lie inanimate.
Perhaps he is a victim of his own pride. It's possible the Emperor could have required his builders to construct and enchant an elaborate geomantic ward at his tomb, so nobody could trespass on it. His servants complied, but they could not have expected him to come back from the dead - the wards trap him inside too.
Perhaps only a certain type of undead, or maybe a special type of priest or eunuch, are the only things that dare to enter the Sleeping City.
Qin Shi Huang: The "Chin" emperor who started it all off. This emperor lived long before the Common Era, and shed much blood in uniting the peoples and various kingdoms into one political entity. He was despotic and tyrannical, killing many academicians and civil servants who disagreed with him. However, by the same token, he was a canny political manipulator who picked and chose his philosophical allies carefully. He standardized weights, distances, and even the width of imperial highways. In a very real sense, he was China's archtype of Europe's Roman Empire - efficient, brutal, and calculating.
How do we make him a tragic figure? In real history, his dynasty - supposed to last for 10,000 years, actually collapsed shortly after his own death. His progeny of future rulers was quickly eliminated, leaving his monuments (Terra Cotta Army, vast portions of the Great Wall) as testament to a will that did not stand the test of time. However, his example spurred others to unite the country and keep it united. One legend also states that he feared death - it is said he assembled a shipload of men and women and sent them over the ocean to retrieve the Elixir of Life, on pain of death. Not surprisingly, the young men and women stayed away, and it is said they founded the island nation of Japan.
Personally, such a character could be Lawful Neutral to an extreme, such that (like Azalin Rex) he will sacrifice those who are nearest and dearest to him in pursuit of an unwavering code of ethics. Emperor Qin crushed many a feudal lord, and quashed numerous insurrections, but he must have slept uneasily with the fear of betrayal constantly at his back. In the end, his death could be one born of despair, knowing that even he must die, and watching as his empire crumbles afterwards.
For Ravenloft, set him as an Ancient Dead of the highest possible magnitude, and place him in a massive, ornate tomb complex like the Terra Cotta Army. (Inanimate clay golems, anybody?) This emperor's palace may be so holy (or unholy) that it counts as a small domain on its own, roughly the size of a large city, and that nobody will go near it for fear of a curse. The Emperor is easily the most powerful of all the darklords on this Asian themed area, but a special curse immobilizes him so he can mostly only watch as the surrounding kingdoms fight amongst themselves in disarray. Unlike the example set by Falkovnia, the Emperor's armies are terrifyingly efficient and could conquer much of the surrounding territories... but for now, they lie inanimate.
Perhaps he is a victim of his own pride. It's possible the Emperor could have required his builders to construct and enchant an elaborate geomantic ward at his tomb, so nobody could trespass on it. His servants complied, but they could not have expected him to come back from the dead - the wards trap him inside too.
Perhaps only a certain type of undead, or maybe a special type of priest or eunuch, are the only things that dare to enter the Sleeping City.
Cao Cao: Fast forward some 400 years. During the Three Kingdoms period, Cao Cao (pronounced "Ts'ow Ts'ow) has been immortalized in Chinese literature as a wicked ruler who betrayed and murdered many of his peers, including his generals and other allied kings. More recent historians have revised this, stating that he might have been a ruler forced to act according to realpolitik, and that by that measure, he succeeded in spades.
His personal adage was "Better that I should wrong the world than that the world should wrong me," and he was a masterful manipulator and powerbroker. The general Guan Yu, once his ally, later turned against him because of his tyranny. In one memorable episode, Cao Cao is fleeing in desperation and is met by Guan Yu at a mountain pass.
Without missing a beat, Cao Cao hails him in humble and friendly terms, asking "You have been well, I trust, since we last met?" This appeal to their old friendship causes Guan Yu to hesitate, and Cao Cao escapes.
Later on, Guan Yu is betrayed and assassinated by a man in Cao Cao's pay. The severed head of the general is brought to Cao Cao, who regards it coldly and says "You have been well, I trust, since we last met?" with a strong sense of irony.
Ultimately, Cao Cao is defeated by a triumvirate of leaders, including the heroic Zhuge Liang (whose feats include collecting 10,000 arrows during a shortage from the enemy by sending boats down the river piled with scarecrows... when the enemies see the boats in the mist, they fire arrows at the "soldiers" and the arrows are caught in the hay).
Cao Cao died, it is said, of a brain affliction. Doctors did have remedies, but the suspicious ruler allowed none of them near him, fearing assassination.
To this day, the Chinese have a saying that translates as "Speak of Cao Cao, and he'll turn up." (This is very similar to the English "Speak of the Devil...", which shows how devious he was believed to be!)
In Ravenloft, Cao Cao would likely command great respect and honor from his common subjects. Higher up, his lieutenants and allies would likely have deep distrust of him, as he does of them. His curse could be similar to Elena Faith-hold. No matter how loyal his lieutenants, Cao Cao mistrusts them and eliminates them after a while, usually playing them off against each other for his favor.
His powers would be similar, though. He is able to infect even the healthiest royal court with intrigue, distrust, and suspicion. At a glance, he can divine weaknesses in relationships, and insecurities among his enemies. This power would be similar to Dominic d'Honaire.
Historically, Cao Cao lived during a time of great upheaval and unrest. His cynicism and betrayal could be sympathetically viewed as a natural survival reaction to the time when he lived in. But, to paraphrase the Chinese film Hero (Ying Xiong), a good warrior fights battles so that he may ultimately put his sword down in peace. A bad warrior fights battles forever. Cao Cao would be similar to one who can never know peace because he carries his own treachery within him.
More to come in a bit.
His personal adage was "Better that I should wrong the world than that the world should wrong me," and he was a masterful manipulator and powerbroker. The general Guan Yu, once his ally, later turned against him because of his tyranny. In one memorable episode, Cao Cao is fleeing in desperation and is met by Guan Yu at a mountain pass.
Without missing a beat, Cao Cao hails him in humble and friendly terms, asking "You have been well, I trust, since we last met?" This appeal to their old friendship causes Guan Yu to hesitate, and Cao Cao escapes.
Later on, Guan Yu is betrayed and assassinated by a man in Cao Cao's pay. The severed head of the general is brought to Cao Cao, who regards it coldly and says "You have been well, I trust, since we last met?" with a strong sense of irony.
Ultimately, Cao Cao is defeated by a triumvirate of leaders, including the heroic Zhuge Liang (whose feats include collecting 10,000 arrows during a shortage from the enemy by sending boats down the river piled with scarecrows... when the enemies see the boats in the mist, they fire arrows at the "soldiers" and the arrows are caught in the hay).
Cao Cao died, it is said, of a brain affliction. Doctors did have remedies, but the suspicious ruler allowed none of them near him, fearing assassination.
To this day, the Chinese have a saying that translates as "Speak of Cao Cao, and he'll turn up." (This is very similar to the English "Speak of the Devil...", which shows how devious he was believed to be!)
In Ravenloft, Cao Cao would likely command great respect and honor from his common subjects. Higher up, his lieutenants and allies would likely have deep distrust of him, as he does of them. His curse could be similar to Elena Faith-hold. No matter how loyal his lieutenants, Cao Cao mistrusts them and eliminates them after a while, usually playing them off against each other for his favor.
His powers would be similar, though. He is able to infect even the healthiest royal court with intrigue, distrust, and suspicion. At a glance, he can divine weaknesses in relationships, and insecurities among his enemies. This power would be similar to Dominic d'Honaire.
Historically, Cao Cao lived during a time of great upheaval and unrest. His cynicism and betrayal could be sympathetically viewed as a natural survival reaction to the time when he lived in. But, to paraphrase the Chinese film Hero (Ying Xiong), a good warrior fights battles so that he may ultimately put his sword down in peace. A bad warrior fights battles forever. Cao Cao would be similar to one who can never know peace because he carries his own treachery within him.
More to come in a bit.
- Waldi
- Agent of the Fraternity

- Posts: 88
- Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:29 am
- Location: Dresden / Germany
Wow, two good potentiel "darklords" !!!
A little thougt about that:
Perhaps, both "darklords" could be placed in one domain ? (similar to Dominic d'Honaire and the living brain in Dementlieu)
Cow-Cow would be the contemporary "darklord" of the domain. The first emperor is thought to be long vanished and gone. Perhaps, the first emperor would be a kind of shadowy menace (there is the constant thread of his return) or the true reason for the battle of the three kingdoms. (he isn´t a corporeal undead and needs a kind of vessel for his return. So he ignited the war to find a worthy vessel for his next life. And Cow-Cow could be a perfect candidate.....
About the Fu-Man-Chu-Stuff
Well, I thought at first more about a "literal" darklord, because ravenloft is basicly about adaptions from classical horror-literature. So I think, a Fu-Man-Chu, as beeing a figure of horror-literature, could have a place in Ravenloft.
Of course, we should add some tragic aspects to his caracters (the original Fu-Man-Chu is just too plain evil...). For example, his central motives could be quite noble. Perhaps, he tries to overtake all tongs and triads, to end all this criminal trouble and he tries to drive out the white menace, that brought opium and missery to his homecity...
A little thougt about that:
Perhaps, both "darklords" could be placed in one domain ? (similar to Dominic d'Honaire and the living brain in Dementlieu)
Cow-Cow would be the contemporary "darklord" of the domain. The first emperor is thought to be long vanished and gone. Perhaps, the first emperor would be a kind of shadowy menace (there is the constant thread of his return) or the true reason for the battle of the three kingdoms. (he isn´t a corporeal undead and needs a kind of vessel for his return. So he ignited the war to find a worthy vessel for his next life. And Cow-Cow could be a perfect candidate.....
About the Fu-Man-Chu-Stuff
Well, I thought at first more about a "literal" darklord, because ravenloft is basicly about adaptions from classical horror-literature. So I think, a Fu-Man-Chu, as beeing a figure of horror-literature, could have a place in Ravenloft.
Of course, we should add some tragic aspects to his caracters (the original Fu-Man-Chu is just too plain evil...). For example, his central motives could be quite noble. Perhaps, he tries to overtake all tongs and triads, to end all this criminal trouble and he tries to drive out the white menace, that brought opium and missery to his homecity...
May you live in interesting times !!
-ancient chinese curse
-ancient chinese curse
- Dion of the Fraternity
- Lurker Maximus

- Posts: 1092
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- Location: Baguio City, Philippines
- Contact:
In the Sundered Skies domain, this city is called "Kartikeya," sorta like Bangkok in the 19th century. Kartikeya is the largest city in the domain of Kungthrom Sound (again, in homage to Siam). The City isn't a domain in itself, but it has an all-powerful supernatural underworld leader, sort of like a "sub-darklord." She's a mermaid who lives in one of Kartikeya's estuaries (the city's built on a river delta), and she controls all black market trade in drugs and contraband goods.Waldi wrote:When the asian-like cluster shall be more centered on a 19th-century Asia (with opium-wars and similar calamitys) it would need also a infamous trading-port !!!
- DeepShadow of FoS
- Evil Genius

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- Location: Heinfroth's Asylum
While researching for Masque of the Jade Horror, I used the following details about Qin Shi Huang-di:
--Qin Shi Huangdi named himself after Huang Di, the fabled Yellow Emperor of antiquity. Among the original Huang Di's accomplishments was the creation of mankind out of lifeless clay. Terra cotta statues anyone?
--Qin Shi Huangdi sought out the oracles and sorcerers of Shandong, obsessed with obtaining the secrets of immortality, but he died before the formulae could be completed.
--The terra cotta army was also unfinished when the emperor died. Each face was a distinct individual, and the statues were arranged complete with uniforms, ranks, and commanders.
My take on all of this was that the terra cotta statues were once men whose souls were bound to serve the emperor. Even after his death, the forces that served Qin Shi Huangdi continued to collect soldiers to swell the ranks.
From chambers deep beneath Mount Li, one of Huangdi's terra cotta statues emerges to prowl the countryside for the most disciplined soldiers loyal to China. A soldier dies a mysterious death, and another statue joins the ranks....
--Qin Shi Huangdi named himself after Huang Di, the fabled Yellow Emperor of antiquity. Among the original Huang Di's accomplishments was the creation of mankind out of lifeless clay. Terra cotta statues anyone?
--Qin Shi Huangdi sought out the oracles and sorcerers of Shandong, obsessed with obtaining the secrets of immortality, but he died before the formulae could be completed.
--The terra cotta army was also unfinished when the emperor died. Each face was a distinct individual, and the statues were arranged complete with uniforms, ranks, and commanders.
My take on all of this was that the terra cotta statues were once men whose souls were bound to serve the emperor. Even after his death, the forces that served Qin Shi Huangdi continued to collect soldiers to swell the ranks.
From chambers deep beneath Mount Li, one of Huangdi's terra cotta statues emerges to prowl the countryside for the most disciplined soldiers loyal to China. A soldier dies a mysterious death, and another statue joins the ranks....
The Avariel has borrowed wings,
The Puppeteer must cut the strings
The Orphan Queen must take the throne
The Queen of Orphans calls them home
The Puppeteer must cut the strings
The Orphan Queen must take the throne
The Queen of Orphans calls them home
- DeepShadow of FoS
- Evil Genius

- Posts: 2923
- Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:43 pm
- Location: Heinfroth's Asylum
This was another character I researched for MotJH, but in that case it was cut before being totally developed after the time period became set in stone.Waldi wrote:About the Fu-Man-Chu-Stuff
Well, I thought at first more about a "literal" darklord, because ravenloft is basicly about adaptions from classical horror-literature. So I think, a Fu-Man-Chu, as beeing a figure of horror-literature, could have a place in Ravenloft.
Of course, we should add some tragic aspects to his caracters (the original Fu-Man-Chu is just too plain evil...). For example, his central motives could be quite noble. Perhaps, he tries to overtake all tongs and triads, to end all this criminal trouble and he tries to drive out the white menace, that brought opium and missery to his homecity...
Actually, Fu Manchu had potential for a tragic background, because his family had been murdered in the Boxer Rebellion, which made him hate westerners. I don't know how much that was ever developed, but it's certainly a start.
I went the other direction with my take on him: "Fu Manchu" was 2D and monstrous because he was a monster! I had him slated to be a naga (the hypnotic eyes started me on that) whose eggs and mate were murdered during the Boxer rebellion. With polymorphing abilities (perhaps granted by the Jade Horror) Fu took human form and began his revenge against humanity. Having despaired of ever finding another mate, Fu now considers himself the last of his race--thus his quest for the elixir of illmortality.
Anyway, it was a start, and as I cut it so early, it's fair game for me to take furthur. Any thoughts?
The Avariel has borrowed wings,
The Puppeteer must cut the strings
The Orphan Queen must take the throne
The Queen of Orphans calls them home
The Puppeteer must cut the strings
The Orphan Queen must take the throne
The Queen of Orphans calls them home
The Hong Kong idea actually has a lot of merit to it. Here's my historical take on why that is:
China has always been the huge hulking empire that anchors East Asian culture. Now, I am not saying that every culture there derives from China, but it is fair to say that, like Rome, every culture there had to deal with China as a dominant power. Some, like Burma and Thailand, were able to keep the relationship relatively equitable for most of their existence. Others, like Mongolia and Korea, were forced to deal on poor terms, and sometimes had to fight their way militarily to keep themselves on equal footing.
Now think about the "Hong Kong" period. This is the first time that foreign nations ever defeated and overcame Chinese forces in an absolute fashion. The Chinese had two dynasties of nominally "foreign" people: the Yuan dynasty was formed of Mongols, and the final Qing dynasty was formed of the Manchurians. But in both those cases, the foreign Asians came and assimilated into the culture they conquered. They may have held power over Chinese people, but the Chinese culture ultimately won out over them.
When the Western powers came, this all changed. China finally faced a foe that it could not assimilate. The inventions of cannons, opium, and advanced shipbuilding paralyzed the Chinese people, and the imbalance was so great that the ruling dynasty did not hope to expel the foreigners - they actually sided with them in oppressing their own people because they feared for their own survival.
How do you turn this into a Ravenloft situation?
Well, the Chinese people have always known rise and fall of emperors and dynasties. But the arrival of blue-eyed foreigners who could cripple your country is a great shock. This could go back to the "Dragon" idea I spoke about before. For this, I use Empress Cixi (pronounced "Ts' Shee") as a sample darklord.
Empress Cixi: Cixi is the last in line of a dynasty of the Manchu ethnic minority. For millennia, they had been mere footnotes in the history of China - those tall barbarians from the northeast. However, three hundred years ago, they stormed out under the leadership of Nurhaci and overthrew the declining Ming dynasty. They employed soldiers and tactics that the ethnic Han Chinese could not resist. Once they assumed the throne, they enforced Manchu styles of dress and hair (such as wearing pig tails and shaving the front of your head).
Over time, even the invaders grew to be like the Chinese they conquered. They dropped their initial non-Chinese name and called themselves the "Qing" (Ching), which means pure or clear.
Cixi was a minor court concubine when she entered politics. By currying favor with the powerful eunuch bureaucracy, she was able to secure herself as a lover to powerful court officials. After a few successions within the Qing family, she rose to a position of great power - eventually, her husband became the Emperor.
Like Queen Victoria of England, Cixi's rule was extremely long. She herself did not rule in the open, knowing the bias against female rulers. (The only other female Emperor, from about 500 years previously, had been openly reviled and slandered in history books after her death.) Instead, she placed husbands, brothers, sons, nephews on the throne and influenced them. During her time, she was the ruling power behind three figurehead emperors. She even had the power to imprison an emperor under house arrest when he defied her.
Why she's a darklord: Cixi has good reason to stay out of sight. Secretly, she has used dark magic to extend her own life. (She may be a low-level lich, or may have vampiric qualities.) She uses magical means to influence the men of power around her, and has no qualms about putting a three-year-old boy on the throne, and then dominating him utterly to enforce her will.
Although her dynasty once was brilliant, Cixi comes to power as it's in decline. Foreigners (maybe from Lamordia, Mordent, Darkon, and Nova Vaasa) have landed on her shores and have inflicted defeat after humiliating defeat on her militias. As a foreign Manchu herself, Cixi has no particular interest in saving her people, but she does worry about her reign.
She would rule over an Imperial Palace style domain, right adjacent to the Necropolis where the ancient dead First Emperor Qin Shi Huang lies. (See above.) Politically, she has great power over the surrounding domains, but she suffers from a curse that she must drink blood or drain a person of life to maintain her own youth and beauty. (Cixi was said to be notoriously vain - one Jesuit missionary won her favor by painting the 60-year-old monarch as a beautiful young woman.)
To her own view, Cixi is the only person qualified to save the Imperial family line. She does what she must, sacrificing pawns as she needs, to play a deadly poker game with an inferior hand. To the view of her citizens, she is the inept final ruler in an Imperial line that was composed of barbarians from the north, and which cares nothing for ethnic Han Chinese like them.
In the view of the foreigners, she is a ravening monster of a ruler, and her people are backwards, squalid, and little better than beasts.
China has always been the huge hulking empire that anchors East Asian culture. Now, I am not saying that every culture there derives from China, but it is fair to say that, like Rome, every culture there had to deal with China as a dominant power. Some, like Burma and Thailand, were able to keep the relationship relatively equitable for most of their existence. Others, like Mongolia and Korea, were forced to deal on poor terms, and sometimes had to fight their way militarily to keep themselves on equal footing.
Now think about the "Hong Kong" period. This is the first time that foreign nations ever defeated and overcame Chinese forces in an absolute fashion. The Chinese had two dynasties of nominally "foreign" people: the Yuan dynasty was formed of Mongols, and the final Qing dynasty was formed of the Manchurians. But in both those cases, the foreign Asians came and assimilated into the culture they conquered. They may have held power over Chinese people, but the Chinese culture ultimately won out over them.
When the Western powers came, this all changed. China finally faced a foe that it could not assimilate. The inventions of cannons, opium, and advanced shipbuilding paralyzed the Chinese people, and the imbalance was so great that the ruling dynasty did not hope to expel the foreigners - they actually sided with them in oppressing their own people because they feared for their own survival.
How do you turn this into a Ravenloft situation?
Well, the Chinese people have always known rise and fall of emperors and dynasties. But the arrival of blue-eyed foreigners who could cripple your country is a great shock. This could go back to the "Dragon" idea I spoke about before. For this, I use Empress Cixi (pronounced "Ts' Shee") as a sample darklord.
Empress Cixi: Cixi is the last in line of a dynasty of the Manchu ethnic minority. For millennia, they had been mere footnotes in the history of China - those tall barbarians from the northeast. However, three hundred years ago, they stormed out under the leadership of Nurhaci and overthrew the declining Ming dynasty. They employed soldiers and tactics that the ethnic Han Chinese could not resist. Once they assumed the throne, they enforced Manchu styles of dress and hair (such as wearing pig tails and shaving the front of your head).
Over time, even the invaders grew to be like the Chinese they conquered. They dropped their initial non-Chinese name and called themselves the "Qing" (Ching), which means pure or clear.
Cixi was a minor court concubine when she entered politics. By currying favor with the powerful eunuch bureaucracy, she was able to secure herself as a lover to powerful court officials. After a few successions within the Qing family, she rose to a position of great power - eventually, her husband became the Emperor.
Like Queen Victoria of England, Cixi's rule was extremely long. She herself did not rule in the open, knowing the bias against female rulers. (The only other female Emperor, from about 500 years previously, had been openly reviled and slandered in history books after her death.) Instead, she placed husbands, brothers, sons, nephews on the throne and influenced them. During her time, she was the ruling power behind three figurehead emperors. She even had the power to imprison an emperor under house arrest when he defied her.
Why she's a darklord: Cixi has good reason to stay out of sight. Secretly, she has used dark magic to extend her own life. (She may be a low-level lich, or may have vampiric qualities.) She uses magical means to influence the men of power around her, and has no qualms about putting a three-year-old boy on the throne, and then dominating him utterly to enforce her will.
Although her dynasty once was brilliant, Cixi comes to power as it's in decline. Foreigners (maybe from Lamordia, Mordent, Darkon, and Nova Vaasa) have landed on her shores and have inflicted defeat after humiliating defeat on her militias. As a foreign Manchu herself, Cixi has no particular interest in saving her people, but she does worry about her reign.
She would rule over an Imperial Palace style domain, right adjacent to the Necropolis where the ancient dead First Emperor Qin Shi Huang lies. (See above.) Politically, she has great power over the surrounding domains, but she suffers from a curse that she must drink blood or drain a person of life to maintain her own youth and beauty. (Cixi was said to be notoriously vain - one Jesuit missionary won her favor by painting the 60-year-old monarch as a beautiful young woman.)
To her own view, Cixi is the only person qualified to save the Imperial family line. She does what she must, sacrificing pawns as she needs, to play a deadly poker game with an inferior hand. To the view of her citizens, she is the inept final ruler in an Imperial line that was composed of barbarians from the north, and which cares nothing for ethnic Han Chinese like them.
In the view of the foreigners, she is a ravening monster of a ruler, and her people are backwards, squalid, and little better than beasts.
Then of course you'd have the Mongols! No Chinese campaign would be complete without Mongols.
In the Chinese consciousness, these guys are a mixture between the Germanic barbarians that sacked Rome (boo!) and the heroic cowboys of the Wild West (yay!). They are legendary for their battlefield prowess and the ties of family that bind them.
Historically, the Mongols have had a rivalrous relationship with the Chinese. The original Qin emperor connected various city walls into The Great Wall's first incarnation, to keep them out. At the peak of their influence, the Mongols conquered all of China, eliminating the Song dynasty, and establishing themselves as the Yuan dynasty.
Inevitably, of course, the Yuan were assimilated into Chinese culture and lost collaboration with the non-Chinese Mongol territories. The Ming dynasty overthrew them and they have since been desert nomads on the periphery of the Chinese sphere.
These characters may serve as a good barbarian style ethnicity. Even those without the barbarian class would receive bonuses to survival and other wildland hardiness checks. They also are excellent riders.
For those who want a less sympathetic or romanticized view, the story of Ghenghis Khan's ascent to power also has important lessons. He enforced his will through shows of merciless power, and tales of the cities sacked by his men are legendary for the slaughter of innocents. He and his successors did not so much conquer as obliterate. In many ways, he is seen in a similar light to Attila the Hun or Vlad Drakov by the Chinese.
Darklord: A Mongol leader would likely be charismatic, canny, and physically the best of the best. The social structure still would emphasize shows of strength rather than subtlety, and it may be reasonable to model this after the "Beowulf" style rulership of the Germanic tribes - conquest and plunder were the only ways of economically securing enough tribute and food to keep your soldiers happy. Such a leader would have to be brutal, and have to be willing to do what is best for him and then best for his people (secondly).
Perhaps a tragic figure would be the type of leader who understands the culture he is destroying. Like Salieri ruining Mozart, this leader might have a mixture of envy and jealousy for the empire's rulers, but also he would be the only person in his tribe or society who knows the true value of what it is he is pillaging and destroying. In this way, the despoiler would aspire to become emperor himself, but knows his birthright would not allow that.
Technologically, the Mongols pioneered many innovations. They spread out horse stables throughout their land, so a messenger could ride for hours, then change for a fresh horse and continue on his way. They wore silk undertunics beneath their armor, so they could pull out arrows without having to cut around them. (The arrows would pierce hard leather but not soft silk - they would just tug on the silk to pull out the arrow.) At a time when westerners wore heavy armor, the Mongols relied on a light, mobile force and excellent bowmanship - their arrows could pierce full plate with little problems, and if they struck a mounted knight in the chest or head it was often lethal.
In the Chinese consciousness, these guys are a mixture between the Germanic barbarians that sacked Rome (boo!) and the heroic cowboys of the Wild West (yay!). They are legendary for their battlefield prowess and the ties of family that bind them.
Historically, the Mongols have had a rivalrous relationship with the Chinese. The original Qin emperor connected various city walls into The Great Wall's first incarnation, to keep them out. At the peak of their influence, the Mongols conquered all of China, eliminating the Song dynasty, and establishing themselves as the Yuan dynasty.
Inevitably, of course, the Yuan were assimilated into Chinese culture and lost collaboration with the non-Chinese Mongol territories. The Ming dynasty overthrew them and they have since been desert nomads on the periphery of the Chinese sphere.
These characters may serve as a good barbarian style ethnicity. Even those without the barbarian class would receive bonuses to survival and other wildland hardiness checks. They also are excellent riders.
For those who want a less sympathetic or romanticized view, the story of Ghenghis Khan's ascent to power also has important lessons. He enforced his will through shows of merciless power, and tales of the cities sacked by his men are legendary for the slaughter of innocents. He and his successors did not so much conquer as obliterate. In many ways, he is seen in a similar light to Attila the Hun or Vlad Drakov by the Chinese.
Darklord: A Mongol leader would likely be charismatic, canny, and physically the best of the best. The social structure still would emphasize shows of strength rather than subtlety, and it may be reasonable to model this after the "Beowulf" style rulership of the Germanic tribes - conquest and plunder were the only ways of economically securing enough tribute and food to keep your soldiers happy. Such a leader would have to be brutal, and have to be willing to do what is best for him and then best for his people (secondly).
Perhaps a tragic figure would be the type of leader who understands the culture he is destroying. Like Salieri ruining Mozart, this leader might have a mixture of envy and jealousy for the empire's rulers, but also he would be the only person in his tribe or society who knows the true value of what it is he is pillaging and destroying. In this way, the despoiler would aspire to become emperor himself, but knows his birthright would not allow that.
Technologically, the Mongols pioneered many innovations. They spread out horse stables throughout their land, so a messenger could ride for hours, then change for a fresh horse and continue on his way. They wore silk undertunics beneath their armor, so they could pull out arrows without having to cut around them. (The arrows would pierce hard leather but not soft silk - they would just tug on the silk to pull out the arrow.) At a time when westerners wore heavy armor, the Mongols relied on a light, mobile force and excellent bowmanship - their arrows could pierce full plate with little problems, and if they struck a mounted knight in the chest or head it was often lethal.
The main religions of China were not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Confucianism began as a social philosophy, stressing the importance of social order and being satisfied with your position in the hierarchy. Later, it gained in cultural traction, and became intertwined with religious practices.
Ancestral worship has survived from prehistory, and lent itself very well to Confucianism. Typically, in its strictest incarnation, this would require not just filial respect, but an internal domestic "kingdom" hierarchy. A young man returning from his studies to his homestead would be expected to visit each elder in their quarters in turn of seniority, and greet them. At family functions, social decorum was very important. The order in which you pay respects to seniors, pour tea, etc. was laden with significance. If you assume polygamy as an acceptable arrangement, this becomes even more important. Who should you greet first? The first wife, who has born three daughters now adult, or the young second wife, who is expecting a child which may be male?
Daoism (Taoism) also began as a philosophy, and branched into a religious practice. The famous interplay of light and dark is the cornerstone of this philosophy, although it also lends itself to interpretations of biology and medicine. During the Tang dynasty, the Daoist temples became a political force and many instances of Buddhist/Daoist monk clashes were recorded.
Buddhism was imported from the Sacred Lands of the West (likely a reference to India). Emperor Taizong of the Tang dynasty was the first openly avowed Buddhist emperor, and under his rule the cultural import of this flourished.
Clerics of all of these could have access to spells and spheres of various domains, in addiition to levels in monk or wizard.
Judaism and Islam also have roots in Chinese antiquity. The Jewish presence is extremely limited, but history records show about eight or nine families in Suzhou (Soochow) that have identified themselves as Jews for 500 years. (During the Holocaust, many Jews also took refuge in camps in China.)
The Islamic presence is much more populous, especially in the northwest, where the residents do not strongly resemble Chinese in culture, ethnicity, or customs.
These Muslims may also work well as the Asian variant of Vistani. Historically speaking, Muslims and Manchus and other ethnic minorities have typically been characterized as excellent military men. Throughout Chinese legend, most of the greatest generals are drawn from the outer provinces, not of native Han stock.
Overall, there are 56 ethnic minorities as classified by the central government. Some are very different from the typical Han majority. The Lo-Lo minority in the southwest are the equivalent of Amazons, where the females are the only gender allowed to own property and where the men become property of their wives' families. In the Naxi tribes near the source of the Yangzi river, the women are the builders and workers and household heads, whereas the men traditionally do not do much work. (It's possible in old times they were expected to focus entirely on training as a militia - in current days they do very little.)
Confucianism began as a social philosophy, stressing the importance of social order and being satisfied with your position in the hierarchy. Later, it gained in cultural traction, and became intertwined with religious practices.
Ancestral worship has survived from prehistory, and lent itself very well to Confucianism. Typically, in its strictest incarnation, this would require not just filial respect, but an internal domestic "kingdom" hierarchy. A young man returning from his studies to his homestead would be expected to visit each elder in their quarters in turn of seniority, and greet them. At family functions, social decorum was very important. The order in which you pay respects to seniors, pour tea, etc. was laden with significance. If you assume polygamy as an acceptable arrangement, this becomes even more important. Who should you greet first? The first wife, who has born three daughters now adult, or the young second wife, who is expecting a child which may be male?
Daoism (Taoism) also began as a philosophy, and branched into a religious practice. The famous interplay of light and dark is the cornerstone of this philosophy, although it also lends itself to interpretations of biology and medicine. During the Tang dynasty, the Daoist temples became a political force and many instances of Buddhist/Daoist monk clashes were recorded.
Buddhism was imported from the Sacred Lands of the West (likely a reference to India). Emperor Taizong of the Tang dynasty was the first openly avowed Buddhist emperor, and under his rule the cultural import of this flourished.
Clerics of all of these could have access to spells and spheres of various domains, in addiition to levels in monk or wizard.
Judaism and Islam also have roots in Chinese antiquity. The Jewish presence is extremely limited, but history records show about eight or nine families in Suzhou (Soochow) that have identified themselves as Jews for 500 years. (During the Holocaust, many Jews also took refuge in camps in China.)
The Islamic presence is much more populous, especially in the northwest, where the residents do not strongly resemble Chinese in culture, ethnicity, or customs.
These Muslims may also work well as the Asian variant of Vistani. Historically speaking, Muslims and Manchus and other ethnic minorities have typically been characterized as excellent military men. Throughout Chinese legend, most of the greatest generals are drawn from the outer provinces, not of native Han stock.
Overall, there are 56 ethnic minorities as classified by the central government. Some are very different from the typical Han majority. The Lo-Lo minority in the southwest are the equivalent of Amazons, where the females are the only gender allowed to own property and where the men become property of their wives' families. In the Naxi tribes near the source of the Yangzi river, the women are the builders and workers and household heads, whereas the men traditionally do not do much work. (It's possible in old times they were expected to focus entirely on training as a militia - in current days they do very little.)
Tasting the gall bladder:
In the late 400s, the king of the state of Yue, named Gou Jian, was defeated by the neighboring king of Wu. As a captive, he was taken to the enemy capital and made into a groom, cleaning out the stables.
For many years, he hid his vengeance and did his task diligently. He was always dressed in rags and unkempt, and slept on firewood and straw.
Not long afterwards, the Wu king fell ill and Gou Jian came to him. He immediately hit on a charlatan's trick: he claimed that he could deduce a person's health from studying his feces. He tasted the Wu king's waste and declared that it had the bitter taste of a man who would recover. Delighted, the Wu king gave him the right to travel back to his former kingdom as a free man.
The dethroned king plotted his return to power. Although success seemed impossible, he hung a gall bladder above his door and tasted of its bile every day to remind himself of the bitter taste of serving King Wu. He slept on firewood and straw to remind himself of the indignity of living as a stable hand.
After many years of preparation, his armies struck back and won many battles. At a crucial final battle against Wu, Gou Jian knew his men were tired and needed to be encouraged before fighting. He brought out a potent wine and poured it into the river, where his entire army could fill their poteens and drink. Thus inebriated, his army lost their fear and were able to carry the day in the following battle.
(Darklord possibilities for Gou Jian to come.)
In the late 400s, the king of the state of Yue, named Gou Jian, was defeated by the neighboring king of Wu. As a captive, he was taken to the enemy capital and made into a groom, cleaning out the stables.
For many years, he hid his vengeance and did his task diligently. He was always dressed in rags and unkempt, and slept on firewood and straw.
Not long afterwards, the Wu king fell ill and Gou Jian came to him. He immediately hit on a charlatan's trick: he claimed that he could deduce a person's health from studying his feces. He tasted the Wu king's waste and declared that it had the bitter taste of a man who would recover. Delighted, the Wu king gave him the right to travel back to his former kingdom as a free man.
The dethroned king plotted his return to power. Although success seemed impossible, he hung a gall bladder above his door and tasted of its bile every day to remind himself of the bitter taste of serving King Wu. He slept on firewood and straw to remind himself of the indignity of living as a stable hand.
After many years of preparation, his armies struck back and won many battles. At a crucial final battle against Wu, Gou Jian knew his men were tired and needed to be encouraged before fighting. He brought out a potent wine and poured it into the river, where his entire army could fill their poteens and drink. Thus inebriated, his army lost their fear and were able to carry the day in the following battle.
(Darklord possibilities for Gou Jian to come.)
Maritime endeavors:
Although the names of Magellan and Columbus resound most for the West, Asian cultures also produced navigators and shipmen of note.
First, the Chinese discovered magnetism roundabout 400 BCE, and by 1000 CE had developed routine methods for magnetizing compasses. In the 1300s, the expeditions of Admiral Zheng He brought Chinese influence to the Middle East, Oceanasia, and even Africa.
Zheng He himself was a eunuch, born to Mongolian family during the last days of the Mongol Yuan dynasty. When the Ming dynasty took power, all men and boys of the Mongols were castrated.
Despite this, Zheng He served the Ming court of Emperor Yongle faithfully. When the Emperor decided to expand Chinese exploration overseas, Zheng He was the one to head the fleet.
The "Treasure Fleets" comprised the largest wooden ships ever assembled prior to the Industrial era. The fleets travelled the seas, primarily to establish contacts with other kingdoms. They brought gifts and demonstrations of Chinese technology, and also collected novelties from afar - including, records suggest, a giraffe from Eastern Africa.
Zheng He's story is, tragically, very similar to many Chinese heroes'. After returning from his travels and spreading the Ming banner far and wide, he found the court of his Emperor had been replaced in a succession by a ruler who was not interested in exploration. The new ruler even decreed no Chinese could live within a mile of the shore, and that any newcomers to the country would be branded as pirates and dealt with. Zheng He's fleet was left to rot on the shores.
Zheng He himself is described as an enormous man, and quite a character. He was known by many names, in Arabic, Mongol and Chinese. One nickname was "Sanbao" meaning "three jewels" (possibly an honorific to refer to his eunuch status) and it is speculated that this name later became the "Sinbad the sailor" that we know from Arabic myths.
Other innovations included ship design with redunant ballast rooms, meaning that the ships could take much more punishment before sinking, as these rooms would keep the ship afloat. Later military advances made for a two-stage "cruise missile" (originally a flare or firecracker design) that would skim the surface of the water and then collide with an enemy ship before exploding.
Although the names of Magellan and Columbus resound most for the West, Asian cultures also produced navigators and shipmen of note.
First, the Chinese discovered magnetism roundabout 400 BCE, and by 1000 CE had developed routine methods for magnetizing compasses. In the 1300s, the expeditions of Admiral Zheng He brought Chinese influence to the Middle East, Oceanasia, and even Africa.
Zheng He himself was a eunuch, born to Mongolian family during the last days of the Mongol Yuan dynasty. When the Ming dynasty took power, all men and boys of the Mongols were castrated.
Despite this, Zheng He served the Ming court of Emperor Yongle faithfully. When the Emperor decided to expand Chinese exploration overseas, Zheng He was the one to head the fleet.
The "Treasure Fleets" comprised the largest wooden ships ever assembled prior to the Industrial era. The fleets travelled the seas, primarily to establish contacts with other kingdoms. They brought gifts and demonstrations of Chinese technology, and also collected novelties from afar - including, records suggest, a giraffe from Eastern Africa.
Zheng He's story is, tragically, very similar to many Chinese heroes'. After returning from his travels and spreading the Ming banner far and wide, he found the court of his Emperor had been replaced in a succession by a ruler who was not interested in exploration. The new ruler even decreed no Chinese could live within a mile of the shore, and that any newcomers to the country would be branded as pirates and dealt with. Zheng He's fleet was left to rot on the shores.
Zheng He himself is described as an enormous man, and quite a character. He was known by many names, in Arabic, Mongol and Chinese. One nickname was "Sanbao" meaning "three jewels" (possibly an honorific to refer to his eunuch status) and it is speculated that this name later became the "Sinbad the sailor" that we know from Arabic myths.
Other innovations included ship design with redunant ballast rooms, meaning that the ships could take much more punishment before sinking, as these rooms would keep the ship afloat. Later military advances made for a two-stage "cruise missile" (originally a flare or firecracker design) that would skim the surface of the water and then collide with an enemy ship before exploding.
- Gemathustra
- Evil Genius

- Posts: 578
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:31 pm
- Location: The Cleft of Dimensions
Actually, Zheng He returned to Beijing, and was told that the outside world had nothing to offer China (by the same emperor), despite the fact that he brought the emperor China's first giraffe, which was immediately mistaken for a chi'lin. The real reason why the emperor stopped funding Zheng He's exploration/tribute gathering trip was because the imperial coffers had been drained because rival courtesans spent all of the money gathered from the sale of the Yuan emperor's hunting grounds on other projects.
...
Also, according to a rumor, it was prophesied that a woman from Cixi's tribe would bring about the ruin and downfall of the Qing dynasty.
I'm not sure that Cixi cared too much about China, especially since she placed her love of flowers and gardening well above the welfare of her subjects, or even courtesans, and that she maliciously spent the funds for the Imperial Navy for building a stone boat in her favorite lake of lotus flowers.
I do know that such was her vanity and love of showmanship that one of her favorite courtesans was a Jesuit missionary who also happened to be one of the first photographers in China... She loved to pose for him.
...
Also, according to a rumor, it was prophesied that a woman from Cixi's tribe would bring about the ruin and downfall of the Qing dynasty.
I'm not sure that Cixi cared too much about China, especially since she placed her love of flowers and gardening well above the welfare of her subjects, or even courtesans, and that she maliciously spent the funds for the Imperial Navy for building a stone boat in her favorite lake of lotus flowers.
I do know that such was her vanity and love of showmanship that one of her favorite courtesans was a Jesuit missionary who also happened to be one of the first photographers in China... She loved to pose for him.
"Arrogant mortal! You are in my world now and you will never leave this attic alive! I will destroy you, and then I will possess she whom you love the most. And there is not a single thing in the world you can do to stop me!"
*poke*
"OW!"
-Dracula
*poke*
"OW!"
-Dracula
-
NykylaiHellray
- Evil Genius

- Posts: 242
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:32 am
-
NykylaiHellray
- Evil Genius

- Posts: 242
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:32 am
Oh yeah here is an idea for japanese style islands.
The japanese believe that there people descended from the gods.
The emperor is supposed to be descended from the sun goddess.
Anyway what if we introduce a dragon into this domain.
The dragon is viewed as a goddess, and it is the ancestor of the emperor line.
It was trapped there by the dark powers, and cannot escape as they made it so the dragon requires the faith of her people to keep her alive.
Not to sure how you would use it though =/. Though the idea of a dragon dark lord does sound cool.
Another idea is the temples in tibet.
A religion contantly in meditation could be interesting for ravenloft.
The japanese believe that there people descended from the gods.
The emperor is supposed to be descended from the sun goddess.
Anyway what if we introduce a dragon into this domain.
The dragon is viewed as a goddess, and it is the ancestor of the emperor line.
It was trapped there by the dark powers, and cannot escape as they made it so the dragon requires the faith of her people to keep her alive.
Not to sure how you would use it though =/. Though the idea of a dragon dark lord does sound cool.
Another idea is the temples in tibet.
A religion contantly in meditation could be interesting for ravenloft.
I'm glad you brought up the idea of a dragon.
In Chinese mythology, dragons were everywhere, and they were not so much evil as fickle. The Yangzi and Yellow rivers were the birthplace of Chinese civilization, but they often flooded and destroyed settlements. These rivers came to be associated with dragons.
I'm assuming the main Imperial center of the Chinese-style empire is starting to crumble, in this campaign setting. The explanation for this could be found in a dragon. In China, too, the emperor was seen as a dragon incarnate, or at least descended from dragons. What if that were literally true in this case?
Throughout previous centuries, a hidden Asian dragon sat behind the throne's power, manipulating the mortals that served it. The dragon would have to be extremely secret - nobody except the emperor himself and perhaps some close trusted associates could have known about it. THe dragon would have been the source of political power, and may also have been the source of some divine and arcane magical power as well.
Now, the dragon has suddenly grown silent. Could it have left or abandoned its people? Perhaps this is why the empire is in decline, as the ruling families fight among themselves and foreigners divide the land according to their own colonies.
On a less earth-shaking note, lesser dragons are plentiful in mythology and often manifest themselves in rivers, canyons, forests, and pretty much anywhere. These dragons are sometimes wicked, sometimes good, but generally they are like animals - they may be intelligent, but they care little for the goals of humans and are often disruptive just for its own sake.
For even greater suspense, what if the dragon had not departed for good, but had left instructions as to how the empire was to be run in its absence? Say, the dragon envisioned the usual seasonal problems of harvest, flood, and minor uprisings. Of course, the arrival of foreigners would disrupt all that (rather like Harry Seldon's plans were disrupted by the Mule) and the dragon's instructions are no longer helpful to a rulership grown corrupt and weak.
But what if the dragon is going to return someday? What would happen then?
In Chinese mythology, dragons were everywhere, and they were not so much evil as fickle. The Yangzi and Yellow rivers were the birthplace of Chinese civilization, but they often flooded and destroyed settlements. These rivers came to be associated with dragons.
I'm assuming the main Imperial center of the Chinese-style empire is starting to crumble, in this campaign setting. The explanation for this could be found in a dragon. In China, too, the emperor was seen as a dragon incarnate, or at least descended from dragons. What if that were literally true in this case?
Throughout previous centuries, a hidden Asian dragon sat behind the throne's power, manipulating the mortals that served it. The dragon would have to be extremely secret - nobody except the emperor himself and perhaps some close trusted associates could have known about it. THe dragon would have been the source of political power, and may also have been the source of some divine and arcane magical power as well.
Now, the dragon has suddenly grown silent. Could it have left or abandoned its people? Perhaps this is why the empire is in decline, as the ruling families fight among themselves and foreigners divide the land according to their own colonies.
On a less earth-shaking note, lesser dragons are plentiful in mythology and often manifest themselves in rivers, canyons, forests, and pretty much anywhere. These dragons are sometimes wicked, sometimes good, but generally they are like animals - they may be intelligent, but they care little for the goals of humans and are often disruptive just for its own sake.
For even greater suspense, what if the dragon had not departed for good, but had left instructions as to how the empire was to be run in its absence? Say, the dragon envisioned the usual seasonal problems of harvest, flood, and minor uprisings. Of course, the arrival of foreigners would disrupt all that (rather like Harry Seldon's plans were disrupted by the Mule) and the dragon's instructions are no longer helpful to a rulership grown corrupt and weak.
But what if the dragon is going to return someday? What would happen then?
