Gothic Orient
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Rotipher of the FoS
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Or what if the whole notion of a dragon founding the kingdom is "false history" ... but an imposter dragon (perhaps not even a true dragon, but a construct in dragon-statue form, or a mortal sorcerer in disguise) suddenly appears one day, claiming to be the "real" draconic founder and demanding that its every whim be obeyed without question? The Imperial agents would be desperate to appease the "founder", while covering up the creature's "return" from the ignorant (since they'd kept the founder's very existance a secret all along). Even if one of the court's elite advisors came to suspect that the dragon isn't the real founder, he might have to play along, as the scandal of how they'd been duped must be suppressed and/or the Emperor, himself, could still believe the "dragon's" lies.
"Who [u]cares[/u] what the Dark Powers are? They're [i]bastards![/i] That's all I need to know of them." -- Crow
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NykylaiHellray
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Rotipher of the FoS
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Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of a ghost- or demon-possessed statue (of which RL-Asian palaces and gardens are bound to have tons) than a mechanical-type construct. But perhaps the foreign merchants who are trying to muscle their way into the region could have such a dragon-automaton built, or hire an illusionist to project the image of a dragon, as a means of manipulating the more guilible locals. They needn't know about the "founder-dragon" legend (or even believe there are such creatures, Oriental or otherwise!) to attempt such a fraud, just so long as they catch on that the local populace imagines dragons to be semi-divine beings, fully deserving of tribute and respect.NykylaiHellray wrote:Lol that reminds me of the steam dragon campaign ....the company who made it alludes me =/... anyway it had a similar idea of a construct dragon.
"Who [u]cares[/u] what the Dark Powers are? They're [i]bastards![/i] That's all I need to know of them." -- Crow
I like Rotipher's idea of the fake dragon. If you want to play a cluster (or even full sized Core) of different Asian styled countries, then I think that's a great candidate for one kingdom or domain.
However, if you're going to use only one nation, then be careful with that mechanic. It has the potential to severely undermine the culture, and politically speaking it has roughly the same effect as saying "Western fantasy creatures and magic are superior to Asian fantasy creatures and magic." Anybody who's read "Interesting Times" by Terry Pratchett will have a good idea of how insensitive that sort of thing can be.
(To be fair, in the 1700s to 1900s, something very similar did happen, except it was called "missionaries" and they were talking about religion instead. But that's a whole can of worms I'm going to let somebody else open.) :p
So I would suggest the following:
Have more than one domain, most of which are served by one or more dragons. These do not have to be despotic tyrants, a la Dragon Kings of Athas in Dark Sun. They can just as easily be whimsical river gods or lake gods who bring woes as well as weals (boons) to the people around them.
The centralized domain where the Emperor lives may have a dragon that is particularly meddlesome in human affairs. Other domains may have dragons that bring more rain (such as Zhejiang in China, where a lot of lush farmlands exports grain to the rest of the empire) or sandstorms (Beijing, Inner Mongolia).
The most inaccessible places, such as a Tibetan domain (excellent idea by the way!) could be an aerie of sorts for the dragons, and the locals could be especially religious in their propitiation of the dragon spirits.
If you want to implement the "lost dragon" or "false dragon" idea, use it for one domain... and then maybe have that domain become very dependent on technology instead of divine/arcane magic. In the real world history, China was a technological powerhouse for much of its history, lagging behind later in the 1800s onwards. Maybe this dragonless domain could invert that traditional balance of power.
Imagine sailors from the western Core travelling to the Asian Core, and finding that the people of this one domain no longer use magic and even divine worship has fallen into disuse. Instead, they have access to moderate-level gunpowder, steam-powered mechanics, and a budding industrial base. Sure, they can't summon up a lightning bolt or fireball, but give them enough time to jerry up a capacitor mechanism, or collect enough palm oil, and they might be able to put together something that achieves a similar effect (and which won't be affected by Dispel Magic or Spell Resistance!).
You'd have to be careful not to let this domain dominate. Perhaps most of the work is done by slave labor, or a disposable oppressed worker class. Perhaps the innovators are privileged noble families, who appropriate inventions in their own names and are reluctant to trade them away (this would also explain why the whole darn Core doesn't have these items). Perhaps nobles are the only ones who can afford them, because they have to have the slave-intensive labor to produce them.
China historically lacked the advanced metallurgical advances that Industrial Europe managed to create, so things like cannon and muskets might be limited. One inspiration I got was from "Princess Mononoke" (itself roughly historical in that it's set after Japan got firearms from China or possibly Portugal) - the soldiers use one-shot muskets made from wood or bamboo. This would not be as effective as arquebuses, but they could definitely be made in larger quantities, and much cheaper. So on the battlefield, the soldiers would have to work much harder in concert, with one rank firing their bamboo "fire spears" (huo qiang, pronounced "hwoh chiang") and then rearming and priming with another batch while a second and third rank then advanced and fired.
This domain would represent the mixed blessing of early industry. It doesn't have a dragon and probably doesn't play much of a political part in the rest of the Asian Core's politics, but then again when your society progresses past a point, you wouldn't see the need for "superstitions" or "feudal fealties".
This domain would be similar to a godless, purely materialistic society where life is cheap and death is even cheaper.
In other words, it would be similar to Hong Kong
(My mother and half my family comes from Hong Kong so I can make that joke and not be punished for it.)
However, if you're going to use only one nation, then be careful with that mechanic. It has the potential to severely undermine the culture, and politically speaking it has roughly the same effect as saying "Western fantasy creatures and magic are superior to Asian fantasy creatures and magic." Anybody who's read "Interesting Times" by Terry Pratchett will have a good idea of how insensitive that sort of thing can be.
(To be fair, in the 1700s to 1900s, something very similar did happen, except it was called "missionaries" and they were talking about religion instead. But that's a whole can of worms I'm going to let somebody else open.) :p
So I would suggest the following:
Have more than one domain, most of which are served by one or more dragons. These do not have to be despotic tyrants, a la Dragon Kings of Athas in Dark Sun. They can just as easily be whimsical river gods or lake gods who bring woes as well as weals (boons) to the people around them.
The centralized domain where the Emperor lives may have a dragon that is particularly meddlesome in human affairs. Other domains may have dragons that bring more rain (such as Zhejiang in China, where a lot of lush farmlands exports grain to the rest of the empire) or sandstorms (Beijing, Inner Mongolia).
The most inaccessible places, such as a Tibetan domain (excellent idea by the way!) could be an aerie of sorts for the dragons, and the locals could be especially religious in their propitiation of the dragon spirits.
If you want to implement the "lost dragon" or "false dragon" idea, use it for one domain... and then maybe have that domain become very dependent on technology instead of divine/arcane magic. In the real world history, China was a technological powerhouse for much of its history, lagging behind later in the 1800s onwards. Maybe this dragonless domain could invert that traditional balance of power.
Imagine sailors from the western Core travelling to the Asian Core, and finding that the people of this one domain no longer use magic and even divine worship has fallen into disuse. Instead, they have access to moderate-level gunpowder, steam-powered mechanics, and a budding industrial base. Sure, they can't summon up a lightning bolt or fireball, but give them enough time to jerry up a capacitor mechanism, or collect enough palm oil, and they might be able to put together something that achieves a similar effect (and which won't be affected by Dispel Magic or Spell Resistance!).
You'd have to be careful not to let this domain dominate. Perhaps most of the work is done by slave labor, or a disposable oppressed worker class. Perhaps the innovators are privileged noble families, who appropriate inventions in their own names and are reluctant to trade them away (this would also explain why the whole darn Core doesn't have these items). Perhaps nobles are the only ones who can afford them, because they have to have the slave-intensive labor to produce them.
China historically lacked the advanced metallurgical advances that Industrial Europe managed to create, so things like cannon and muskets might be limited. One inspiration I got was from "Princess Mononoke" (itself roughly historical in that it's set after Japan got firearms from China or possibly Portugal) - the soldiers use one-shot muskets made from wood or bamboo. This would not be as effective as arquebuses, but they could definitely be made in larger quantities, and much cheaper. So on the battlefield, the soldiers would have to work much harder in concert, with one rank firing their bamboo "fire spears" (huo qiang, pronounced "hwoh chiang") and then rearming and priming with another batch while a second and third rank then advanced and fired.
This domain would represent the mixed blessing of early industry. It doesn't have a dragon and probably doesn't play much of a political part in the rest of the Asian Core's politics, but then again when your society progresses past a point, you wouldn't see the need for "superstitions" or "feudal fealties".
This domain would be similar to a godless, purely materialistic society where life is cheap and death is even cheaper.
In other words, it would be similar to Hong Kong
(My mother and half my family comes from Hong Kong so I can make that joke and not be punished for it.)
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Rotipher of the FoS
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Sounds almost like the makings of the RL-Asia Cluster's equivalent of Falkovnia, in a way: godless, pitiless, and doomed to ignominy because its leaders keep betting on mundane, secular means of sating their ambitions, refusing to acknowledge there are supernatural powers in the world which they can't hope to out-fight (or out-industrialize). Not so militant as Falkovnia, but it'd be viewed with a similar repulsed contempt by its less-materialistic neighbors, for driving its people into the ground in the vain attempt to prove itself "superior", despite the willful blindness of those in charge.
"Who [u]cares[/u] what the Dark Powers are? They're [i]bastards![/i] That's all I need to know of them." -- Crow
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Gemathustra
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Speaking of superstitions, and such...
Do remember that according to an Eastern point of view, spirits are everywhere, as, everything, from rocks to people have one.
Not only does one have to make sure that he behaves himself in a manner that pleases his ancestors (who are still watching him), but he also has to make sure that the good spirits are properly thanked for the good fortunes they bring, as well as bribe the evil spirits so that they refrain from causing mischief.
Dowager Empress Cixi surrounded herself in her palaces with all sorts of good luck charms, and made sure that she performed all sorts of auspicious rituals in order to ensure her continued reign...
Do remember that according to an Eastern point of view, spirits are everywhere, as, everything, from rocks to people have one.
Not only does one have to make sure that he behaves himself in a manner that pleases his ancestors (who are still watching him), but he also has to make sure that the good spirits are properly thanked for the good fortunes they bring, as well as bribe the evil spirits so that they refrain from causing mischief.
Dowager Empress Cixi surrounded herself in her palaces with all sorts of good luck charms, and made sure that she performed all sorts of auspicious rituals in order to ensure her continued reign...
"Arrogant mortal! You are in my world now and you will never leave this attic alive! I will destroy you, and then I will possess she whom you love the most. And there is not a single thing in the world you can do to stop me!"
*poke*
"OW!"
-Dracula
*poke*
"OW!"
-Dracula
Here is another idea I had awhile back and was thinking about using in a campaign. I don't know whether they're suitable for Ravenloft though, but it should be fun to see. Some of this may be better suited to a high fantasy setting.
The Court in Chaos
The Imperial court of an Asian empire has lost its Emperor, who was always one for new, nontraditional ideas. He went against tradition by taking only one wife, and he further offended by having only one child - a daughter. He also spent much of his time on journeys and inspections of his empire, rather than staying within the safety of his Imperial Palace.
Finally, on tour of the barbaric lands to the north, the Emperor and his train disappeared. No ransom was made, and no reports of capture - they simply vanished. The Imperial court is in chaos after this departure, and various factions are vying for power.
The Eunuchs, long the bureaucracy of the royal family, are now exercising their power. They hold the rights to block and approve appointments as they see fit. Although they have little direct military power, they can curry favor with the noble houses and the army heads as they see fit. They have long had an acrimonious relationship with the Concubine House, and now wish to eradicate that institution entirely.
The Generals are concerned with the security of the outer provinces and the disappearance of the Emperor, which they fear may spur outlying provinces to break away from Imperial control. Some loyalists wish to preserve the Throne in the Emperor's absence. Others hope to ally with the Dukes and Princes to snatch it for themselves. Each General only controls a fraction of the total Imperial central army, for the Emperor foresaw the day when they might mutiny, and saw to it that no one General was stronger than the other.
The Dukes and Princes are a group of squabbling nobles ranging across the Empire, with their envious eyes on the throne. Most are a fairly useless lot, but a few have real power and pose an actual threat. They have their own standing armies, which are of necessity inferior to the Generals above, but they also control the cities and provinces, draw taxes, and occasionally produce technological advances.
The Concubine House traditionally served little purpose apart from supplying the Emperor with a stream of desirable bedpartners drawn from the Conquered Territories and within the Central Kingdoms and (secondarily) a supply of male heirs. However, the most recent Emperor, in his eccentric ways, released the concubines from their servitude and sent them back to their respective homes. He then demanded a new crop of concubines, but asserted that they must not only be the most beautiful, but also the most skilled in the cultural arts of their respective tribes, and also politically well connected with their tribe leaders. The Eunuchs recoiled at such break with tradition - for women are not to be educated! - but the Emperor was intractable. Few of the court personages ever saw the Concubines, and the Eunuchs were barred from their chambers.
Ultimately, the Concubine House served a very different, but secret, purpose. The Emperor's decree ultimately converted them into a tool of diplomacy. The women proved familiar with the goings on of their home provinces, and the Emperor drew secret information passed on to him from the Concubines. In return, he was able to relay secret messages back to various factions among the far flung provinces, through his concubines.
In his absence, the Concubine House floundered at first, but one particularly strong-willed woman came up with a new purpose. Now that their Emperor has gone, perhaps the women themselves could represent the interests of the outlying provinces and assemble a less centralized authority. Some of the Dukes and Princes have been interested in such an idea, more out of interest of denying the others absolute power on the throne, while others are deeply suspicious of any attempt at reconciliation.
The Emperor. Where this individual went, nobody knows. His whereabouts are as deeply rooted in mystery as the origins of the winds and the clouds. Many search for him but in vain, for DM's prerogative means he's probably a dragon and will one day return to shake up his Empire again.
The Court in Chaos
The Imperial court of an Asian empire has lost its Emperor, who was always one for new, nontraditional ideas. He went against tradition by taking only one wife, and he further offended by having only one child - a daughter. He also spent much of his time on journeys and inspections of his empire, rather than staying within the safety of his Imperial Palace.
Finally, on tour of the barbaric lands to the north, the Emperor and his train disappeared. No ransom was made, and no reports of capture - they simply vanished. The Imperial court is in chaos after this departure, and various factions are vying for power.
The Eunuchs, long the bureaucracy of the royal family, are now exercising their power. They hold the rights to block and approve appointments as they see fit. Although they have little direct military power, they can curry favor with the noble houses and the army heads as they see fit. They have long had an acrimonious relationship with the Concubine House, and now wish to eradicate that institution entirely.
The Generals are concerned with the security of the outer provinces and the disappearance of the Emperor, which they fear may spur outlying provinces to break away from Imperial control. Some loyalists wish to preserve the Throne in the Emperor's absence. Others hope to ally with the Dukes and Princes to snatch it for themselves. Each General only controls a fraction of the total Imperial central army, for the Emperor foresaw the day when they might mutiny, and saw to it that no one General was stronger than the other.
The Dukes and Princes are a group of squabbling nobles ranging across the Empire, with their envious eyes on the throne. Most are a fairly useless lot, but a few have real power and pose an actual threat. They have their own standing armies, which are of necessity inferior to the Generals above, but they also control the cities and provinces, draw taxes, and occasionally produce technological advances.
The Concubine House traditionally served little purpose apart from supplying the Emperor with a stream of desirable bedpartners drawn from the Conquered Territories and within the Central Kingdoms and (secondarily) a supply of male heirs. However, the most recent Emperor, in his eccentric ways, released the concubines from their servitude and sent them back to their respective homes. He then demanded a new crop of concubines, but asserted that they must not only be the most beautiful, but also the most skilled in the cultural arts of their respective tribes, and also politically well connected with their tribe leaders. The Eunuchs recoiled at such break with tradition - for women are not to be educated! - but the Emperor was intractable. Few of the court personages ever saw the Concubines, and the Eunuchs were barred from their chambers.
Ultimately, the Concubine House served a very different, but secret, purpose. The Emperor's decree ultimately converted them into a tool of diplomacy. The women proved familiar with the goings on of their home provinces, and the Emperor drew secret information passed on to him from the Concubines. In return, he was able to relay secret messages back to various factions among the far flung provinces, through his concubines.
In his absence, the Concubine House floundered at first, but one particularly strong-willed woman came up with a new purpose. Now that their Emperor has gone, perhaps the women themselves could represent the interests of the outlying provinces and assemble a less centralized authority. Some of the Dukes and Princes have been interested in such an idea, more out of interest of denying the others absolute power on the throne, while others are deeply suspicious of any attempt at reconciliation.
The Emperor. Where this individual went, nobody knows. His whereabouts are as deeply rooted in mystery as the origins of the winds and the clouds. Many search for him but in vain, for DM's prerogative means he's probably a dragon and will one day return to shake up his Empire again.
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NykylaiHellray
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Dion of the Fraternity
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For those who haven't accessed Nebula Obscura or Navigaccio yet, here are the Asian-inspired domains and their darklords:
Dorjiloka (Tibet) -- Dorji Kerima, an ascended monk who wishes to be one with the Satwas but can't because he's too arrogant.
Chamhok Mun (Korea) -- Kim Heol, a shinomen naga who could not control others of his kind.
Sanzhou Grove (China) -- Zhi Yang, a dread willow treant unable to extract tribute from the humanoids who wander her domain.
Kungthrom Sound (Thailand) -- King Thruksit XVII, who desperately clings to power even as he fears the omens of his impending downfall e everywhere.
---
And here are the proposed domains:
Kota Brangkasi (Bali) -- across Kungthrom Sound
Trun Minh (Vietnam) -- located directly underneath Kungthrom Sound, in Ravenloft's underdark.
Shisukaru (Yonaguni ruins of Japan) -- across Kungthrom Sound
Still no concept on their darklords.
Dorjiloka (Tibet) -- Dorji Kerima, an ascended monk who wishes to be one with the Satwas but can't because he's too arrogant.
Chamhok Mun (Korea) -- Kim Heol, a shinomen naga who could not control others of his kind.
Sanzhou Grove (China) -- Zhi Yang, a dread willow treant unable to extract tribute from the humanoids who wander her domain.
Kungthrom Sound (Thailand) -- King Thruksit XVII, who desperately clings to power even as he fears the omens of his impending downfall e everywhere.
---
And here are the proposed domains:
Kota Brangkasi (Bali) -- across Kungthrom Sound
Trun Minh (Vietnam) -- located directly underneath Kungthrom Sound, in Ravenloft's underdark.
Shisukaru (Yonaguni ruins of Japan) -- across Kungthrom Sound
Still no concept on their darklords.
Heh - when I wrote "train" I meant that in the sense of "band of close retainers and servants" rather than "railroad."NykylaiHellray wrote:Nice idea, hey since you are using the possibility of a train, maybe we could have tradelinks with grand central, in the plains of lost innocence cluster =)
However, roundabout the final Qing dynasty time in China, the foreigners built a limited railroad system. They then watched in bemusement as the Chinese purchased the land back from them and ripped the railroad up because it disrupted the Feng Shui (geomancy) of the terrain.
It would be interesting to place a train and railroads in the Dragonless Province.
Also, thanks for the mention of the Asian cluster already done by the Fraternity. I saw those and liked them - they are far more accurate to the cultures they're based on than many of TSR's and WotC's own creations. (I especially do not like "Oriental Adventures" or the domain of I'Cath.)
Here, I'm just posting ideas to make a full Core type of play setting, which would essentially be something like Masque of the Jade Dragon in its scope, rather than a single Cluster. But yes, all the people reading this thread should check out those resources.
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Gemathustra
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Another problem with the railroads in China was that the trains of one country couldn't run on the tracks made by another country.
"Arrogant mortal! You are in my world now and you will never leave this attic alive! I will destroy you, and then I will possess she whom you love the most. And there is not a single thing in the world you can do to stop me!"
*poke*
"OW!"
-Dracula
*poke*
"OW!"
-Dracula
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ScS of the Fraternity
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mistshadow2k4
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I've already done what some of you have suggested. I call it the Black Pearls cluster. It includes Rokushima Taiyoo, I'Cath, Xi'anlin (combined with Sanzhou Grove as one domain; Sanzhou Grove's darklord is the darklord, with Xi'anlin's darklord a legendary ghost - sorry, but she wasn't evil enough to be a darklord anyway, just a tragic figure), Chamhok Mun and Dorjiloka.
The domains suggested in the 4th post sound very interesting, but I'm afraid I'm not knowledgeable enough about those cultures to write domains based on them. I guess that's the problem with most people in the West. I'd be interested if the original poster or someone else did though. After all, if we can have so many Eastern-European and British domains on the Core, why can't we have more Asian domains too? If we have a well-characterized domain and darklord, why limit ourselves to just one of each culture?
Edit: Whoops, forgot to add Kungthrom Sound to the Black Pearls. It's in there too.
I'm very, very interested in this Chinese-style domain you guys have been boucning about and I'm taking notes. I hope y'all do something with it. If not, I guess I will eventually, but that could be a year or more in the future.
The domains suggested in the 4th post sound very interesting, but I'm afraid I'm not knowledgeable enough about those cultures to write domains based on them. I guess that's the problem with most people in the West. I'd be interested if the original poster or someone else did though. After all, if we can have so many Eastern-European and British domains on the Core, why can't we have more Asian domains too? If we have a well-characterized domain and darklord, why limit ourselves to just one of each culture?
Edit: Whoops, forgot to add Kungthrom Sound to the Black Pearls. It's in there too.
I'm very, very interested in this Chinese-style domain you guys have been boucning about and I'm taking notes. I hope y'all do something with it. If not, I guess I will eventually, but that could be a year or more in the future.
[i]I have come to accept the surrender of Hell.[/i] —From 101 Witty Paladin Sayings
If I were a WotC or SnS designer (which I'm not) given free rein to write an "Asianloft" Core, this would be my template:
Five or so recognizably Han Chinese domains. All of them would nominally be controlled by the central domain of an Imperial Throne, but just like the fragmented Empire of Anuire in Birthright, the individual domains would actually have a lot of leeway. Culturally, they are varied but they are still more similar than they are to the non-Chinese domains below. All are squabbling to unseat or side with the current Emperor.
At least a half-dozen countries that are not Han Chinese. These could include the Koreans and Japanese (who are neither Han nor Chinese), and Mongols, Manchurians, and Tibetans (who are not Han but have been considered Chinese at various times in their history). Each of these cultures does not have to be one domain each, either! The current political status of Korea is split into two distinct countries. Historically, Japan and Korea have dealt with many rival noble and royal houses. These could further divide a country into two or more domains. (And once you delineate a domain, you can then come up with individual characteristics of the land and the darklord, so you don't paint the entire culture with just one brush.)
((And here I rant again. If you were to take I'Cath as emblematic of China, Ravenloft is pretty much saying the only type of Chinese setting suitable for horror is when a bitter nymphomaniac mother twists her daughters to hate and kill all men. And live in a mostly-abandoned domain with no people. Splitting cultures into more than one domain means you avoid that sort of sweeping generalization. "Oh, Ravenloft's Chinese nation, population 005, is ruled by an angry female tree." Rant over.))
Rokushima Taiyoo is a well-done domain and in my opinion can serve as the base for a Japanese style setting. A DM could write further differences in the four islands, as they may be ethnically similar but have political variations because of their rulers.
A southeast Asian cluster would be very interesting. Burma, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, and Vietnam are very similar to the power balance in Europe: all of these countries had varying degrees of push and pull, and each one was at some point a dominant power in the region. This could be set rather like New Orleans or the Caribbean colonies - a mixture of exotic paradise and seductive cultures and people - with a hint of something dark, malignant, and unforgivingly alien as an undercurrent. These could be a mix of Souragne, Tepest, Valachan, and Graben Island.
Inhabitants that tend more towards the human spectrum of historical, rather than the fantastic. The entire Asian Core is characterized by relatively low magic (or at least, magic that is more subtle than a "bang! fwish!" Forgotten Realms style), and the legends are a little more about human deeds of perseverence and dedication than necessarily amazing superhuman feats. Zhuge Liang is hailed as a mystic diviner who could read the weather - this relatively simple knowledge allowed him to set battles and conduct missions with an advantage just because he knew the weather conditions.
We can have dragons, golems, demons, and spirits, but the Asianloft Core has a much larger and dominant human population than the traditional Ravenloft Core. The main story should be about people... or at least, things that we believe to be people. If you read "Journey to the West" (Xi You Ji), most of the enemies there are non-human devils and demons, but even they routinely have to assume human form. Why?
Maybe the humans are so populous, and the human society's police and armies are so strong, that a demon out in the open would not stand a chance, no matter what their CR. Or perhaps the more cunning and crafty demons realize humans are the best way of getting things done and thus try to be the manipulators behind them. After all, it's better to persuade somebody to build a Great Wall or dig a Grand Canal if they think you're a good and just Emperor who is the Son of Heaven, than if you go storming over the fields with your breath weapon and your Wing Buffet to beat them into submission...
Even things like river dragons learn to disguise their actions as forces of nature.
The setting should be of an old and fairly established human civilization, with demihumans considered frightening and grotesque creatures on the fringes of the empire.
(This also makes me think of Cantonese people like my mom's family - who are short, stout, will eat anything they can put in a pot, and stereotypically love money over all else. Obviously these people might count as Asianloft's dwarves
)
Political systems would be different, tending more towards absolute rulers. Social perception also would be different, with many citizens relatively content with their lot in life. Some may wish for ambition or advancement, but you wouldn't get the sort of unrest that overthrew the French Monarchy, for example. The Buddhist teachings of acceptance, the Daoist teachings of inaction, and the Confucianist teachings of social order would all make people generally more accepting of authoritarian regimes, as long as they are relatively safe.
Technology is tricky. On Earth, the Chinese came off worse in military exchanges with foreigners who were better armed and technologically advanced. In Asianloft, I propose a slightly different balance of power. Let the foreigners be the ones with more advanced magic. Let the Asians be the ones with a slight tech advantage (because they arise from relatively low magic cultures), counterbalanced by having less magic.
Magic. Why would they have more subtle or lower level magic? We need a suitable explanation, similar to how Dark Sun is able to work around its preserver/defiler classes. You may well come up with a better reason, but my favorite is that magic flows from the blessings of a powerful prime material entity, such as a dragon or clan of dragons. They grant spells and perform divine magic, but the ceremony required is lengthy and hence the need for rituals, drum-banging, and meditation. I also am toying with the idea that a vital dragon has unexpectedly gone missing (or has decided to go traveling elsewhere) and that removes much of the literal and figurative power behind the throne of one (or maybe all) of the domains.
Knowledge in medicine, chemistry, magnetism, and other such trade-applicable sciences might well be in advance of what the foreigners know.
Martial arts: I do not like the D&D monk class. I believe it makes all monks too similar and the martial arts are too simplistic. I think the Quintessential Monk handbooks by Mongoose Publications does a much better job of this. They use existing feats and skills and add extra things you can do with them, rather than creating various new ones to tack on. Another thing I think can be done to improve martial arts is to make limited use of psionic powers, specfically those that enhance the user (rather than those that damage others). This would be a way of representing Zen Buddhism, or Qi Gong, or any other number of internally-focused martial arts. Psi Crystals could easily be replaced by jade bracelets, pearl pendants, and other materials.
Firearms: If we're going with the idea that foreigners have magic and Asians have technology, then we come to the idea of using gunpowder (itself originally a Chinese invention). Instead of making firearms in Asian domains more powerful, we could go with the idea of making them about the same in power, but cheaper and less durable. A western style musket and a Chinese style huo qiang Fire Lance might do a similar amount of damage with comparable range, but the huo qiang might need to be discarded after each use. Chinese military thinking also tended more towards the tactical deployment of forces rather than heroics of individuals (although there was a fair bit of that too). Instead of mighty knights thundering down the battlefield, think of ranks upon ranks of low-level soldiers kneeling and giving volleys of arrows, crossbow bolts, or huo qiang gunfire.
Occasionally, Chinese generals would challenge each other to a duel. This could be as a test of their strength in an exercise of pride, or it could be an honorable way to avoid mass bloodshed. If accepted, the victorious general often marched onwards unopposed as the losing army scattered once their leader died.
The opposite end of the equation - the wuxia swordsman and martial artist - almost never uses guns. These legendary characters would be a good cultural match to the usual D&D hero. A few of these are less-than-honorable, too, being vagabonds who would steal, cheat, rob, and dismount a rider by killing his horse.
Finally, Western history tends towards a linear progression - ever upwards, ever onwards. I'd argue that Asian historians of yore viewed things with a more cyclical (and maybe cynical) eye. Yes, there will be insurrections and uprisings. Yes, some will succeed, though the majority will fail. Yes, those that succeed will have the will of the people behind them, and the Evil Despotic Empire will fall to the glorious Rebel Alliance. And yes, just as surely, a few generations later, the new rulers will be just the same as the ones they replaced.
In the meantime, farmers like you and me will deal with floods, earthquakes, harvest, manure, babies, old people, and taxes.
Five or so recognizably Han Chinese domains. All of them would nominally be controlled by the central domain of an Imperial Throne, but just like the fragmented Empire of Anuire in Birthright, the individual domains would actually have a lot of leeway. Culturally, they are varied but they are still more similar than they are to the non-Chinese domains below. All are squabbling to unseat or side with the current Emperor.
At least a half-dozen countries that are not Han Chinese. These could include the Koreans and Japanese (who are neither Han nor Chinese), and Mongols, Manchurians, and Tibetans (who are not Han but have been considered Chinese at various times in their history). Each of these cultures does not have to be one domain each, either! The current political status of Korea is split into two distinct countries. Historically, Japan and Korea have dealt with many rival noble and royal houses. These could further divide a country into two or more domains. (And once you delineate a domain, you can then come up with individual characteristics of the land and the darklord, so you don't paint the entire culture with just one brush.)
((And here I rant again. If you were to take I'Cath as emblematic of China, Ravenloft is pretty much saying the only type of Chinese setting suitable for horror is when a bitter nymphomaniac mother twists her daughters to hate and kill all men. And live in a mostly-abandoned domain with no people. Splitting cultures into more than one domain means you avoid that sort of sweeping generalization. "Oh, Ravenloft's Chinese nation, population 005, is ruled by an angry female tree." Rant over.))
Rokushima Taiyoo is a well-done domain and in my opinion can serve as the base for a Japanese style setting. A DM could write further differences in the four islands, as they may be ethnically similar but have political variations because of their rulers.
A southeast Asian cluster would be very interesting. Burma, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, and Vietnam are very similar to the power balance in Europe: all of these countries had varying degrees of push and pull, and each one was at some point a dominant power in the region. This could be set rather like New Orleans or the Caribbean colonies - a mixture of exotic paradise and seductive cultures and people - with a hint of something dark, malignant, and unforgivingly alien as an undercurrent. These could be a mix of Souragne, Tepest, Valachan, and Graben Island.
Inhabitants that tend more towards the human spectrum of historical, rather than the fantastic. The entire Asian Core is characterized by relatively low magic (or at least, magic that is more subtle than a "bang! fwish!" Forgotten Realms style), and the legends are a little more about human deeds of perseverence and dedication than necessarily amazing superhuman feats. Zhuge Liang is hailed as a mystic diviner who could read the weather - this relatively simple knowledge allowed him to set battles and conduct missions with an advantage just because he knew the weather conditions.
We can have dragons, golems, demons, and spirits, but the Asianloft Core has a much larger and dominant human population than the traditional Ravenloft Core. The main story should be about people... or at least, things that we believe to be people. If you read "Journey to the West" (Xi You Ji), most of the enemies there are non-human devils and demons, but even they routinely have to assume human form. Why?
Maybe the humans are so populous, and the human society's police and armies are so strong, that a demon out in the open would not stand a chance, no matter what their CR. Or perhaps the more cunning and crafty demons realize humans are the best way of getting things done and thus try to be the manipulators behind them. After all, it's better to persuade somebody to build a Great Wall or dig a Grand Canal if they think you're a good and just Emperor who is the Son of Heaven, than if you go storming over the fields with your breath weapon and your Wing Buffet to beat them into submission...
Even things like river dragons learn to disguise their actions as forces of nature.
The setting should be of an old and fairly established human civilization, with demihumans considered frightening and grotesque creatures on the fringes of the empire.
(This also makes me think of Cantonese people like my mom's family - who are short, stout, will eat anything they can put in a pot, and stereotypically love money over all else. Obviously these people might count as Asianloft's dwarves
)Political systems would be different, tending more towards absolute rulers. Social perception also would be different, with many citizens relatively content with their lot in life. Some may wish for ambition or advancement, but you wouldn't get the sort of unrest that overthrew the French Monarchy, for example. The Buddhist teachings of acceptance, the Daoist teachings of inaction, and the Confucianist teachings of social order would all make people generally more accepting of authoritarian regimes, as long as they are relatively safe.
Technology is tricky. On Earth, the Chinese came off worse in military exchanges with foreigners who were better armed and technologically advanced. In Asianloft, I propose a slightly different balance of power. Let the foreigners be the ones with more advanced magic. Let the Asians be the ones with a slight tech advantage (because they arise from relatively low magic cultures), counterbalanced by having less magic.
Magic. Why would they have more subtle or lower level magic? We need a suitable explanation, similar to how Dark Sun is able to work around its preserver/defiler classes. You may well come up with a better reason, but my favorite is that magic flows from the blessings of a powerful prime material entity, such as a dragon or clan of dragons. They grant spells and perform divine magic, but the ceremony required is lengthy and hence the need for rituals, drum-banging, and meditation. I also am toying with the idea that a vital dragon has unexpectedly gone missing (or has decided to go traveling elsewhere) and that removes much of the literal and figurative power behind the throne of one (or maybe all) of the domains.
Knowledge in medicine, chemistry, magnetism, and other such trade-applicable sciences might well be in advance of what the foreigners know.
Martial arts: I do not like the D&D monk class. I believe it makes all monks too similar and the martial arts are too simplistic. I think the Quintessential Monk handbooks by Mongoose Publications does a much better job of this. They use existing feats and skills and add extra things you can do with them, rather than creating various new ones to tack on. Another thing I think can be done to improve martial arts is to make limited use of psionic powers, specfically those that enhance the user (rather than those that damage others). This would be a way of representing Zen Buddhism, or Qi Gong, or any other number of internally-focused martial arts. Psi Crystals could easily be replaced by jade bracelets, pearl pendants, and other materials.
Firearms: If we're going with the idea that foreigners have magic and Asians have technology, then we come to the idea of using gunpowder (itself originally a Chinese invention). Instead of making firearms in Asian domains more powerful, we could go with the idea of making them about the same in power, but cheaper and less durable. A western style musket and a Chinese style huo qiang Fire Lance might do a similar amount of damage with comparable range, but the huo qiang might need to be discarded after each use. Chinese military thinking also tended more towards the tactical deployment of forces rather than heroics of individuals (although there was a fair bit of that too). Instead of mighty knights thundering down the battlefield, think of ranks upon ranks of low-level soldiers kneeling and giving volleys of arrows, crossbow bolts, or huo qiang gunfire.
Occasionally, Chinese generals would challenge each other to a duel. This could be as a test of their strength in an exercise of pride, or it could be an honorable way to avoid mass bloodshed. If accepted, the victorious general often marched onwards unopposed as the losing army scattered once their leader died.
The opposite end of the equation - the wuxia swordsman and martial artist - almost never uses guns. These legendary characters would be a good cultural match to the usual D&D hero. A few of these are less-than-honorable, too, being vagabonds who would steal, cheat, rob, and dismount a rider by killing his horse.
Finally, Western history tends towards a linear progression - ever upwards, ever onwards. I'd argue that Asian historians of yore viewed things with a more cyclical (and maybe cynical) eye. Yes, there will be insurrections and uprisings. Yes, some will succeed, though the majority will fail. Yes, those that succeed will have the will of the people behind them, and the Evil Despotic Empire will fall to the glorious Rebel Alliance. And yes, just as surely, a few generations later, the new rulers will be just the same as the ones they replaced.
In the meantime, farmers like you and me will deal with floods, earthquakes, harvest, manure, babies, old people, and taxes.
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NykylaiHellray
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 242
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:32 am