Replacing Powers Checks with Taint

[Dion of the Fraternity]

Since I have this gut feeling that Expedition to Castle Ravenloft will be using the Taint Mechanics of Heroes of Horror rather than Dark Powers Checks, I decided "what the hey, might as well get used to it."

Replacing Powers Checks with Taint is for me not such a bad thing; in fact I think it's pretty good. The only main problem is what happens to a person in RL when he reaches the "dead" or "insane" threshold, in which case a person becomes one of three things: a tainted minion, a tainted raver or a darklord.

The third option is reserved for a select few who have become so tainted that they begin to affect the fabric of the world itself, hence their containment. As for the taint effects themselves, I guess the list of taint effects in HoH could be expanded to include domain-based corruption AND depravity effects, such as rat-based corruption and agoraphobic depravity in Richemulot, for example. I'm coming up with a comprehensive list of these taint effects per domain.

Any thoughts?

[Jakob]

I don't think taint and Ravenloft mix.
Honestly, I found HoH one of the worst things I ever wasted my money on (worse than Champions of Dorkness, yes).

Anyway, the idea behind Powers Checks is making them alluring. And subtle.

There is nothing alluring, nor subtle, in taint.
And I think the halfling set as example on the book (I don't remeber the page, and I DON'T WANT TO OPEN THE BOOK AGAIN) is quite "Un-ravenloftish".
Sorry, but I see taint as something a thirteen-years-old player would like to have in a game after seeing one installment of Scream or Scary Movie.

Ravenloft is Nosferatu.
Heroes of Horror is Dracula - Dead and loving it.
...
...
...
Was I too harsh?

[Jakob]

The third option is reserved for a select few who have become so tainted that they begin to affect the fabric of the world itself, hence their containment. As for the taint effects themselves, I guess the list of taint effects in HoH could be expanded to include domain-based corruption AND depravity effects, such as rat-based corruption and agoraphobic depravity in Richemulot, for example. I'm coming up with a comprehensive list of these taint effects per domain.

As long as you want to keep taint, it's really good.
Anyway, I don't like the idea of having all evil carachters in Richemulot looking like giant rats...

[mistshadow2k4]

(worse than Champions of Dorkness, yes).

*giggle* *giggle* *snort*

Anyhow, I also feel that Ravenloft doesn't go well with taint quite how it was presented in the book. It explicitly states that exposure to tainted areas, people and monsters caused one to become tainted (like Gollum being exposed to the Ring). Ravenloft's dark powers checks were based on the consequences to the evil you choose to commit, not what happens to you. No matter how much a darklord may protest otherwise, he or she did have a choice and chose to not only become evil, but to progress to the point of being beyond redemption.

On the other hand, if you feel like adjusting the taint mechanics to the premises of good vs. evil in Ravenloft, I'd like to see it.

[Jakob]

The further problem with taint is its effects.

1) Taint is forced upon a character.
Many of us protested for the 3.5 RL druid making Powers Check for actions he may be FORCED to do while in a Sinkhole.
With taint rules, just BEING in a sinkhole is corrupting.

2) Taint is punishing.
Powers Check are mainly GIFTS with a curse attached.
Taint are curses. As I said, a THIRTEEN-YEARS-OLD idea of curse.
Using taint as it is, maybe changing it to be triggered by actions of the characters, is like scolding a player for being evil.
Instead of a semi-conscious descent into damnation, you have just a Piffany-like (you know Nodwick, right? ) sliding-in-ickiness.

The further problem is that, in RL, you should have half of the population in the Core tainted and almost turned into a monster.

Look, that's just my opinion, but stick to Powers Check (modify them to suit your tastes, as EVERYONE can do with EVERY rule): they are Ravenloft-ish and... A bit more... Mature. And gothic.

[Faust]

Nha power check are more mature only if you believe in free will, if you believe in determinism taint is better. The same with morality if you believe in concept like good and evil then power check are good but if you believe the world is ammoral taint is more appropriate.
But ravenloft is a gothic setting as such it has the judeo-christian idea of free will and morality.

[Sorti]

Nha power check are more mature only if you believe in free will, if you believe in determinism taint is better. The same with morality if you believe in concept like good and evil then power check are good but if you believe the world is ammoral taint is more appropriate.
But ravenloft is a gothic setting as such it has the judeo-christian idea of free will and morality.

Uhm, in fact in Ravenloft there are Dark Powers deciding who's gifted what and who's not, it's not a matter of philosophy or morality: they decide/notice you've done something they deem evil => they bless/curse you.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

I can't believe we've gone this far without someone making a comment about Taint being the flat neutral that seperates good from evil.

[Jasper]

I realy don't think taint works in Ravenloft as it dosn't feel at all Gothic. Gothic litature is filled with the fallen men and women who by thier own free will took the step into darkness. They willingly killed thier family, willingly drank from the bloody chalace, willingly read from the human skin bound book. You never read of the man who went mad just because he had the necronomicon locked up in his attic.

Power checks work beacuse they give the PC control over thier own path. Kill an innocent- start down the dark path has much more roleplaying potential then saying your character is now a ravening monster just beacuse you had tea at Dr. M's house every day for a year.

[Jakob]

I can't believe we've gone this far without someone making a comment about Taint being the flat neutral that seperates good from evil.

The flat ickiness that separates good from evil.

[Faust]

Nha power check are more mature only if you believe in free will, if you believe in determinism taint is better. The same with morality if you believe in concept like good and evil then power check are good but if you believe the world is ammoral taint is more appropriate.
But ravenloft is a gothic setting as such it has the judeo-christian idea of free will and morality.

Uhm, in fact in Ravenloft there are Dark Powers deciding who's gifted what and who's not, it's not a matter of philosophy or morality: they decide/notice you've done something they deem evil => they bless/curse you.

My reply was not concerning the original post but concerning the post that said taint was immature. And I already said in the las sentence of my post that I tought power check were better for the ravenloft setting.

[Gemathustra]

You never read of the man who went mad just because he had the necronomicon locked up in his attic.

Well, there was a story from Brittany about a hapless farmer who eventually died in great agony because he had the misfortune of having a living Agrippa (a sentient book of evil knowledge) with a cantankerous personality trapped in his attic.

[Jakob]

My reply was not concerning the original post but concerning the post that said taint was immature.

Hey, that's not THE TRUTH. That's the way I see it.
Taint is Scream.
I look for something more mature.

By saying "mature", I mean something that's called by ACTIONS, not CIRCUMSTANCES.

That's the way I feel toward taint.

And I really can't help but picture the entire Core filled with monstrous commoners.

[Gemathustra]

And I really can't help but picture the entire Core filled with monstrous commoners.

"The peasants are revolting! The peasants are revolting!"
"That's not a polite thing to say: Sure, they're unwashed and scruffy-looking, but that's no reason to say they're disgusting."

[Jakob]

And I really can't help but picture the entire Core filled with monstrous commoners.

"The peasants are revolting! The peasants are revolting!"
"That's not a polite thing to say: Sure, they're unwashed and scruffy-looking, but that's no reason to say they're disgusting."

Just great!