Lamest Dark Lord, and Possible Fixes...

[BigBadQDaddy]

Actually, the real Masque of the Red Death riffs are in Sanguinia, where Ladislav Mircea appears to have earned his darklordship (using RLDMG's capsule summary here) by a self-serving forced quarantine a la Prospero, followed by the nasty addendum of performing medical experiments on his former friends to save himself.

Personally, I keep wanting to fuse Nosos with the world outlined in the Thief games, perhaps making Malus something more like the deranged Mechanist Karras, but I can't seem to quite put it together....

Actually, The earliest mention I can find of Sanguinia resembling Masque of the Red Death isn't until 3rd ed. where it is mentioned in the DM s guide . In 2nd ed. Realm of Terror, when Nosos was actually listed as a domain (thank the DP's for getting rid of it in 3rd ed.)It is described as being a disease infested industrialized city where the rich hold masquerade balls in there walled off manor's. Sanguinia is merely listed as another vampire domain. It wasn't even mentioned to have any disease or plague whatsoever. It actually goes on to say the people of the domain live life to the fullest and cherish there children.
It is possible that when 3rd ed came around, they simply killed the idea of Nosos (since it and Malus were incredibly lame) but took the only descent idea from the domain and applied it to an equally flaccid domain.

But you are definatley correct as far as 3.5 mentions it.

I always want to add Nosos to Zherisia.

Now that would be interesting.
A) Malus would no longer be DL. He would just be the D-bag Billy Zane look alike who holds masquerades. Or better yet, One of the Otyug's could hold the masquerades.
B) It would easily apply as some ghetto of Paridon or maybe a neighboring city, since Paridon is already described as being industrialized beyond the means of any other Renaissance level culture in RL. The two seem like a natural match.

[LordGodefroi]

In regards to Drakov, I think the designers forgot a few things about his real-world analogue, Vlad The Impaler

Just a quick note: designers never used 100% of one real world caracter to create any darklord. It's a common mistake to assume this.

Drakov, for example, was inspired by a mix of Vlad the Empaler, Stalin and Hitler, but surely the larger dose is fictious material.

Joël

Oh, sure. But my point was that they simply left too much of The Impaler out of Vlad Drakov.

[LordGodefroi]

Re: Azrael Dak

Yes, I dislike Dak as a darklord. In my post-Soth Sithicus, Inza is the darklord with a different origin story.

[Spiteful Crow]

Re: Azrael Dak

Yes, I dislike Dak as a darklord. In my post-Soth Sithicus, Inza is the darklord with a different origin story.

Errrrr... Inza's already the darklord. Dak's just the public relations guy.

What's your new origin story?

[Scarycount]

my opinion might change if I read Spectre of the Black Rose, but I really don't like Inza.

She just seems too evil, and her write-up in the Gaz doesn't give a good reason for this. Again, I havn't read the book she's in, so I'll keep an open mind about her till I do.

[Spiteful Crow]

my opinion might change if I read Spectre of the Black Rose, but I really don't like Inza.

She just seems too evil, and her write-up in the Gaz doesn't give a good reason for this. Again, I havn't read the book she's in, so I'll keep an open mind about her till I do.

Wow, you just put the finger on what I don't like about her. She's too evil. The whole "I've been an evil jerk since the stormy night I was born" thing just doesn't seem like darklord material.

[NeoTiamat]

Personally, I always liked Hazlik. More for his domain, to be honest. The Turkish/Decadent style just enthralls me. I use it as my basic 'foreign' domain. Plus, his genocidal goals, the basic futility of it all, and his excellent cameo in Tales (The one with the invisible thief), all make me like him. Plus he's low enough level that you can use him where you wouldn't dare try to use Azalin. His sexuality is just a footnote really, although it does make a little more unique.

His background story definetly needs work though.

Drakov is interesting more as a foil, and with Falkovnia as a source of villainy (I like the Talons). His character is lacking, but he makes such a good catalyst for all kinds of conflicts in the Western Core, I can overlook that.

Let me think... lamest Darklord....

Ignoring all the minor, IoT Darklords (Who, with a few exceptions like Sodo or Anton Misroi, are utterly forgettable), I'd call it a toss-up between Kharkov, Inza, or Tristen/Malken.

Kharkov just seems to me to be a bizarre case. A vampiric Kargat were-panther. Say wha? His domain is extremely exotic, which is strange since its right next to staid Mordentshire. I've heard his curse explained very nicely here on the boards (something about the animal trying to be human), but his functions as a Darklord are better served by Harkon Lukas or Strahd, and as a domain by Hazlan.

Inza... I don't like Inza and I don't like Sithicus. I never read the Soth books, never really got infatuated with the old bucket-head like so many are, and I just find the domain and its current darklord odd. The domain is the sole non-human one in the Core, which makes it occasionally useful as a 'Foreign' type domain (i.e. not someplace you are, but a good place to have characters from), but again, in most cases an arrogant Mulan human seems to serve better then an arrogant elf. As for Inza... like its been said, she's too evil, and probably the shallowest, least-developed Darklord out there. I know her curse (again as explained here) is very appropriate and metaphysical, but its just strikes a wrong chord with me.

Malken is a mess, we can all agree. Strange thing is, I actually like Nova Vaasa as a domain. It has a very slavic style, much better then Vorostokov to my mind, and I'm utterly enthralled with Othmar Bolshnik and his different agents (the man has three kinds of secret police). But Sir Tristen/Malken... meh, just doesn't grab me. He doesn't really seem to do much, he's not a very engaging character, and while the domain is appropriate to him, he's a very passive Darklord. Personally I think that Bolshnik would make a better Darklord.

[Edit: Completely forgot about the Hags and Tristessa... which in itself says something. The Hags I find a poorly executed version of an incredible concept (I adore MacBeth), while Tristessa fills the role of the Super-Ghost, one already well filled by the much superior Lord Godefroy. Both are Extraneous.]

[Charney]

Since I'm playing on doing an adventure set during the Hour of Screaming Shadows, I'll joinin about Inza.

I personnaly like Inza but I agree that she's too evil. Yet, a lot of Darklords were also simply born evil: D'Honaire or Ivan Dilisnya. Some darklords barely did anything to earn their domain, like Adam or Easan. So to me, Inza isn't that much an exception. Also, why would they need a reason to be evil? Isn't it just to convince ourselves that evil doesn't "just happen". It's like all these theories that try to find the ONE cause that made Hitler the monster he is.

About Inza, she did earn a domain since she did murder her entire tribe. Other darklords did lesser stuff. I think she deserved the curse she's got. But, I must admit Sithicus doesn't fit her at all. Amongst the domain that reflected their darklord best, I think Sithicus suited Soth all too well. But with him gone, Sithicus doesn't make any sense to me.

[WolfKook]

Well, 90% of the "lame" darklords seem to be the ones who only appeared in a single product and never had an adventure, novel or Gaz done for them.

Some lords are naturally "cool" and just scream out ideas. Other need to be coaxed or presented in a better light, some need better lands and hooks. I'm sure there were some pathetic lords redeemed by the Gaz and we at the Fraternity hope to continue that tradition.

I certainly hope you do! Several people who have replied to this thread have mentioned that they don't like or don't care for the DLs of the clusters and the islands... However, there are interesting personalities there that do deserve a better treatment, like Arijani, Ankhtepot or Elena Faithhold (Perhaps even Yagno, though he has never appealed to me).

OTOH, I agree with those who don't like those "I'm eeeevil" DL types, like Inza Kulchevich. And I certainly think that -In Gothic tradition -there should be a reason behind their deeds. There doesn't need to be a traumatic experience: D'Honaire may have only wanted to know how far he could go with his manipulative powers, and Dilisnya may have only wanted to know if he could get away with his sins, as many spoiled kids do.

Inza, OTOH, doesn't seem to have a reason. She's just plain evil, like those two-dimensional villains of some bad cartoons. And she doesn't have anything to do with her domain... Don't tell anybody, but I still secretly use good ol' buckethead as the head of his domain (The Death Knight concept is just too enticing to let him go, and the back story is very interesting).

The same happens, to me, with Malocchio. For me, he lacks tragic flavor at all. IMC, I was planning on changing Malocchio's story. After her card reading (Which implied her destruction at the hands of his own son), Gabrielle tried to destroy Malocchio, but somebody took him away from her. He grew up (In a normal fashion) with a poor family far from his mother, who became obsessed with finding and killing him, while the vistani where trying to do the same. Malocchio is still a boy, and he is a happy, healthy, even "good" child. Disaster seems to be all around him, though, and he has discovered that all those who have done wrong to him tend to meet soon and terrible deaths, and as he approaches teen age, his fate comes closer to fulfillment.

(For those who have read or seen the anime series "Berserk"... My plans for him are based on the character of Griffith)

[Igor the Henchman]

The Henchman's pick:

Malus Sceleris
His domain is amazing, but the lord doesn't live up to the 'major adventure villain' role. 2nd edition stats him as a 1st level fighter, with an ability to manipulate disease. The trick about disease is cool, but with an incubation time counted in days, its not something that's going to help him when the PCs burst in his lair for a final confrontation.

Solution: give him class levels in something. Anything. I'd personally go with druid, to reflect his background and conflicted nature, maybe with levels in the Blighter prestige class on top (from Complete Divine, its for druids who choose to betray nature).

Stezen D'Polarno
With due apologies to James Lowder. Maybe my opinion would be different if I had read those RPGA modules that spawned him. As he is, he comes up to be really, extremely, well... bland. Its even part of the concept.

Solution: give him an ongoing agenda and reason to be interested in foreign politics. He needs to be more pro-active, not sitting in his castle day in, day out in boredom.

Pieter Van Riese
No long-term schemes. No minions. Can't leave his ship. Prone to fits of anger towards any he encounters. Is he fit for anything other than a one-shot combat encounter?

Solution: at least give him a crew, and some limited ability to leave his ship.

Tsieng Chiang
This one needs no explaining, I think.

Inza
Again I have to apologize to James. She was a great character in the novel. But come on, this domain is all about elves. There's nothing to tie her with the land she's ruling. And we already have a "gypsy scorned" darklord right across the border.

Solution: can't she be at least somewhat elven? Barring that, can she have some interest in actually ruling her domain?

Dominic D'Honaire
This is a darklord who's so well hidden, that there's no way the PCs can ever realistically uncover his nature, because if they do, his pitiful combat abilities makes him go down there and then. Ruling with whispers and nods is all well and good, but to be a great villain, you have to be at least somewhat worthy of adventurer steel when it comes down to dropping the masks.

Solution: Give him a wider array of supernatural abilities, including, perhaps, a getaway trick like Jaqueline Renier has. Give him some more shock value for when you end up unmasking him. In fact... why not just give his position to his cooler-than-he-is rival, the Living Brain?

Ivana and Ivan
Poisons. When it comes to clashing swords with a poison-armed enemy, most PC groups either come very prepared, or are caught the pants completely down. Ivana's minions in a fight are likely her Ermordenung, also poison-users. Ivan's blockers are his Borrowed Men, likely also armed with poisoned gear, what with their boss's limitless budget and ability to create poisons at will. This turns the conflict against the darklord (and indeed, the whole adventure) into Poison Extravaganza. Poison in small doses is good. When its your villain's only gimmick, it sucks.

Solution: give them both some other strength that doesn't rely on poison. Sorceror levels. Sneak attack. Ability to shapeshift into vermin. Swarm control. Anything. Please.

The Phantom Lover
There's only one thing this darklord does: seduce women who lost their love, bring them into his lair, the PCs have to bring her back before midnight. Cue in the standard dungeon crawl.

Solution: To be worthwhile, this darklord needs a background. And a personality. Also, some basic psychology the DM can work from.


And finally,...

Azalin Rex
Here's what his Modify Memory ability should read like:

Modify Memory (Sp): Azalin wins. You lose. No saving throw.

Solution: obviously enough, remove said ability from his combat options.

* * *

Incidentally, I think Vlad Drakov is a great darklord as written. The fact he's so one-dimensional actually makes him so fun: his character is very easy to grasp from the players' point of view. You don't need to read tons of background info to the players to get across why he's bad news. He wants respect as a military conqueror, he can never have it, he's doing all he can to make his subject as miserable as he is. In a world full of deep, background-heavy villains, a simple, straightforward "evil dude" can be very refreshing.

[Garudos Celestar]

The Henchman's pick:

2nd edition stats him as a 1st level fighter, with an ability to manipulate disease.

And that was an upgrade in Domains of Dread - in his first appearance (Islands of Terror), he was a 0-level human.

Personally, I prefer to update him to 3E as a low-level ex-druid, with a little bit of rogue added to reflect his new environment and style.

As for my own takes on the poorest darklords...

Meredoth and Tsien Chang both fit into the "nothing all that interesting about them" category, and I've always felt that a Vistani-heritage darklord should be unique, so that doesn't bode well for my opinion of Inza (Gabby came first and is very interesting, particularly with the amount of sympathy and support she's capable of generating in The Evil Eye. Even if the PCs don't leave the adventure liking her or Matton, the two of them become their most likely allies, and they're both capable of getting some respect from the players, if not outright approval.) For Tristessa, while it's nice to have a token banshee, she never ended up being much more than that.

Oh, and then there were the demilords of Necropolis during Azalin's absence... but we won't go there.

[Isabella]

Personally, other than already mentioned pocket lords, I don't care for von Kharkov very much.

That's cause he's black, ain't it? Naw, I always thought Kharkov was a tribute to the random garbage that sometimes gets produced in D&D as well.

Cue the black panther jokes. =P

The whole vampire-panther-man-what is a big reason I don't like him, but I actually have a certain distaste for most of the Darklords who started out as monsters. I just don't get it. Maybe someone here can explain it to me.

Like Harkon Lucas. Now, I love Harkon Lucas. His over the top charm, his status as hero of the people, all of it makes him loads of fun to play. Maybe his curse is a little meh, but we can overlook that. But the real question I have is why he ended up with his domain in the first place. Did he just get unlucky rolling on the Power Check table?

Dark Powers: Ate another person, Harkon? Roll it.
Harkon: It's cool, they're neutral NPCs, it's only a six percent cha... blast! Not again!
Dark Powers: Ooh! Corruption level ten! Let me get the book out.
Harkon: I swear, these dice are loaded.

Unless I'm missing something huge in his backstory, what has he done that has made him any worse that the five hundred other wolfweres in Kartakaas? Did I miss a Gazetteer entry? Aren't gothic villians about the decent into evil, and how easy it is to become one? But Harkon Lucas started out evil, because, you know, he's a wolfwere. Ironically, von Kharkov is better in a way because you could argue that he actually was human (somehow) despite starting life out as a cat. Not Lucas, though. By this logic, there should be about a million tiny little domains, one for every monster. Help me out, guys.

[Brandi]

As much as some folks around here aren't fond of Van Richten's Guide to the Mists, I wonder if the Dread Oubliette wasn't an attempt to reconcile the entertaining basic concept of the Phantom Lover with the fact that he didn't really fit the usual darklord/domain paradigm (similarly, I think the phantasmagora in the RLDMG was create as a workaround for the "lordless domain" that is the House of Lament).

I also believe (strictly IMO) that Harkon and von Kharkov lend credence to the "Dark Powers as scientists running a twisted experiment" theory: "Hmm-- even by the standards of nonhuman beings this one has a very strange psychology. Let's isolate and amplify it via a domain and see what happens!"

[Nathan of the FoS]

Unless I'm missing something huge in his backstory, what has he done that has made him any worse that the five hundred other wolfweres in Kartakaas? Did I miss a Gazetteer entry? Aren't gothic villians about the decent into evil, and how easy it is to become one? But Harkon Lucas started out evil, because, you know, he's a wolfwere. Ironically, von Kharkov is better in a way because you could argue that he actually was human (somehow) despite starting life out as a cat. Not Lucas, though. By this logic, there should be about a million tiny little domains, one for every monster. Help me out, guys.

Apologies to those who've read this before: I re-jiggered Harkon Lukas' background and Kartakan wolfwere culture to make this more palatable to me. As I imagine it, Kartakan wolfweres have a very old, essentially animistic religion which posits that they were created to a) take the side of wolves against humans and b) to punish the humans who tried to take the wolves' power for themselves (werewolves). To a "true" wolfwere, wolves are people.

In his wolf form Harkon Lukas is the Old Wolf, the undisputed king of the wood, and the wolfweres consider him to be something like a demigod and obey him unquestioningly. In his human form they think he's a poseur at best and a traitor at worst, because Harkon Lukas doesn't care in the slightest about the wolves, and he doesn't much care to be a wolf, either; he'd rather wear clothes and sing songs. But even more than that, Harkon Lukas wants human followers, because only humans can build the empire he wants; wolves aren't interested in that kind of thing. He uses the wolves as tools and treats humans as his friends and (near) equals, which is the worst treachery imaginable to a traditional wolfwere sensibility (again, IMC).

Harkon Lukas does succeed in winning many wolfweres away from their traditional ways so that he can use them as tools to help him build his empire, but as he does so they lose their respect and veneration for the Old Wolf and the old ways and become power-hungry, ambitious, and avaricious--and eventually they turn on their erstwhile mentor and leader. This happens fastest, of course, with his own children, with the unhappy results shown in Feast of Goblyns and Death of a Darklord.

[Igor the Henchman]

Like Harkon Lucas. Now, I love Harkon Lucas. His over the top charm, his status as hero of the people, all of it makes him loads of fun to play. Maybe his curse is a little meh, but we can overlook that. But the real question I have is why he ended up with his domain in the first place. Did he just get unlucky rolling on the Power Check table?

Dark Powers: Ate another person, Harkon? Roll it.
Harkon: It's cool, they're neutral NPCs, it's only a six percent cha... blast! Not again!
Dark Powers: Ooh! Corruption level ten! Let me get the book out.
Harkon: I swear, these dice are loaded.

Unless I'm missing something huge in his backstory, what has he done that has made him any worse that the five hundred other wolfweres in Kartakaas? Did I miss a Gazetteer entry? Aren't gothic villians about the decent into evil, and how easy it is to become one? But Harkon Lucas started out evil, because, you know, he's a wolfwere. Ironically, von Kharkov is better in a way because you could argue that he actually was human (somehow) despite starting life out as a cat. Not Lucas, though. By this logic, there should be about a million tiny little domains, one for every monster. Help me out, guys.

Harkon Lukas was damned for his striving to be a human, yet refusing to accept this choice would bind him to human moral standards. Other wolfweres are content to live as monsters. Harkon wanted to be treated like a man - the Dark Powers obliged.