Lamest Dark Lord, and Possible Fixes...

[Hashmalum]

Yeah, if Drakov can leave his realm for a while, he'd have to be immune to the border closures of the other darklords, just so he couldn't get trapped in someone else's domain (although his men wouldn't have this). A slightly different way of doing things I just thought of would be to define his domain in such a way that it sometimes happens to overlap the domains of other darklords, rather than having him be the only darklord that can leave his domain; for example, his domain is defined as wherever men under his command are willing to kill and die for him. This would lose the symmetry of no border closure/no confinement I mentioned earlier though.

[HuManBing]

That actually could make Drakov into a figure almost similar to Malocchio.

This is probably going to be redundant, but what if Drakov had a special power that a) he can't use the DPs to close his domains borders, but also b) because of this, nobody can trap him in a domain using any supernatural means either.

That would play nicely with his immunities (such as his high SR against magic, given his magical illiteracy) as well as allowing him to cross borders.

There would be limits on this. Border closures that closely mimick effects that are accomplished through mundane means would not be affected. Thus, I'd argue that Azalin could still raise 20 undead behind him, and Drakov would have to fight through them to get back. (And he probably would, too.)

Or you could say that Azalin's undead raised through his darklord powers do not affect Drakov. Azalin would have to animate undead through his powers as a standard lich wizard, in order for those to have an effect on Drakov.

But the Choking Fog of Barovia wouldn't affect him, and other "bang fwish magic" types of effects like the Borcan poison wouldn't have any effect on him. (If Boritsi put poison physically into his supplies, then he might be susceptible, but not if she just wills the liquid in his canteen to turn to poison.)

That may explain why Azalin actually doesn't have any reason to prevent his invasions. Like another poster mentioned, Azalin would want him to invade as often as possible so he could see how Drakov gets to move around the Core.

Just brainstorming... :thinks: :thinks:

[Rotipher of the FoS]

OTOH, if Drakov could leave his domain, on top of already being powerless to close his borders, Azalin wouldn't have any real cause to conclude that he is a darklord (even if he is). Yes, he's got SR as a power, but that could easily be explained as the result of a few botched Powers checks, that fell shy of landing Drakov with darklordship.

So the lich might allow the Kingfuhrer to live -- and to rule over his nation in the public eye, much as non-darklord Prince Othmar rules Nova Vaasa -- in hopes that Drakov's carelessness will eventually lead him to the real Falkovnian lord's identity.

[tec-goblin]

Well, I don't see lame a darklord as Drakov or Hazlik. Ok, I see Drakov as lame, but not a lame darklord. He is different. As Hazlik puts some "high fantasy" spice into the game.
And that's the strength of Ravenloft. Has your gaming group being bored of rennaissance? They can just travel some kms to a domain with different feeling, and where their assumptions about Ravenloft will be questioned.

Ok, there are some darklords I find quite boring (Valachan one for example. Ok, werepanthers? I really don't see what different thing does he offer into the mix of the setting).

[HuManBing]

Kharkov is a bit tricky, but I like him because he introduces some much-needed diversity into the setting (a familiar hobby-horse of mine). I wonder if his domain is possible to be made into an African-themed domain - plenty of jungle, dark skinned inhabitants, a ruthless warlord leader who collects young women to be his brides...

I'm not much of a specialist in African culture or civilization but I'd bet there's plenty of folk stories to be woven into Valachan.

[Brandi]

Kharkov is a bit tricky, but I like him because he introduces some much-needed diversity into the setting (a familiar hobby-horse of mine). I wonder if his domain is possible to be made into an African-themed domain - plenty of jungle, dark skinned inhabitants, a ruthless warlord leader who collects young women to be his brides...

Actually, the flavor of the domain now reminds me more, if anything, of North American Indians, with the African imagery saved for the Wildlands.

[Isabella]

I've been frequenting the Wizard's of the Coast boards, and you know what's sad? After reading the umpteenth alignment thread where someone is trying to argue that good people torture evil people for information, or that killing baby orcs is ok because they'll grow up to be evil, I am convinced that Baron Evensong is a perfectly well characterized darklord.

[cure]

I've been frequenting the Wizard's of the Coast boards, and you know what's sad? After reading the umpteenth alignment thread where someone is trying to argue that good people torture evil people for information, or that killing baby orcs is ok because they'll grow up to be evil, I am convinced that Baron Evensong is a perfectly well characterized darklord.

Welcome to the world of 21st century Earth.

[HuManBing]

I like how the Book of Exalted Deeds says that violence is neither good nor evil. That the D&D universe is built around conflict and violence and that a good character can still kill hundreds of evil ones and still be good.

I disagree with this, because that leads to two things that make me very uncomfortable:

a) People used to do this in history too, where you could kill lots of beings as long as they fell into a category. The Crusaders got special dispensation to kill heathens. The Nazis got special dispensation to kill anybody who wasn't a Nazi. It's too easy to say "I'll bend the moral rules so killing A is fine, but you still can't kill B".

b) In D&D you have a game situation where raping somebody is shocking and evil and bad, but killing them merely results in "an interesting role playing opportunity". Most legal systems would hold them to be at the very least equal offenses, and many have rape as a slightly lesser offense than murder.

[Sorti]

Well, in D&D there are absolute good and evil, and consequently actions can be good or evil in an absolute sense. It's not "you kill heatens", but "you kill evil people/races", so it can be accepted from a good point of view. Real life exaplles, like crusaders and nazis, do not apply.

[HuManBing]

...not in my campaigns.

At risk of firing up yet another indepth morality argument with certain forum regulars, my interpretation is that Ravenloft is already a place where good and evil are seriously blurred. For one thing, you can't actually figure out somebody's alignment by any magical means. That fits in nicely with how I think the demiplane forces everybody to examine the actions of others.

Even better, it forces them to examine the actions of themselves.

Everybody contains within them the spark of goodness, even the most depraved of darklords (ideally) has a tiny kindling of something honorable or good or admirable that makes the PCs think "There but for the grace of the gods, go I".

(This is one reason why Drakov was considered to be unconvincing... and why previous posters in this thread have done excellent work in trying to make him more human.)

Also, everybody contains within them the spark of evil and destructiveness. Even the paladin who kills legions of supposedly evil creatures has to eventually face up to the fact that he or she is taking lives of living creatures.

And who's to say that humans are "good" and nonhumans are "evil"?

Europeans have for centuries been shooting, killing, invading, and infecting many nations' peoples around the world (some to the point of literal extinction) all in the name of their god and their faith. Certainly, if you could fit inside the skull of a Spanish Conquistadore slaughtering an Incan soldier, you'd probably think you're doing something good. But from another viewpoint, there's a poignant argument to be made that you're doing something quite the opposite.

Normal D&D has way too much of an emphasis on combat, and to get around this uncomfortable fact, it sweeps the morality of injury, death, and maiming under the carpet. If you ask me, that plays perfectly into the hands of Darklords like Elena Faithhold.

[Brandi]

Everybody contains within them the spark of goodness, even the most depraved of darklords (ideally) has a tiny kindling of something honorable or good or admirable that makes the PCs think "There but for the grace of the gods, go I".

"To be greatly and effectively wicked a man needs some virtue. Where would Attila have been without his courage, or Shylock without self-denial as regards the flesh?" (CS Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters.")

[WolfKook]

I agree completely with HMB. Traditional D&D has good and evil as absolutes, and thus moral arguments about killing and maiming are not in question. Once you eliminate (As in Arcana Unearthed or Iron Heroes) or Blur (As in Ravenloft) these absolutes, those arguments start to matter, and those crime start to be seen as evil, no matter who you commit them against...

...No court would take the fact that "He was on the fourth step of his path of corruption" as a good reason for murder.

As of my attempts for making Drakov more human (Thks, HMB ), would there be any way to take them away from this thread, so the storyline could be followed?

[HuManBing]

As of my attempts for making Drakov more human (Thks, HMB ), would there be any way to take them away from this thread, so the storyline could be followed?

I would suggest that you open Notepad and then copy and paste every single post you'd made in this thread with the backstory for Drakov. Then start up your own thread anew and call it something like "Origins of the Hawk" or something and then post it in there so people know where to find it.

And keep up the great work!

[Gwenfloor]

Kharkov is a bit tricky, but I like him because he introduces some much-needed diversity into the setting (a familiar hobby-horse of mine). I wonder if his domain is possible to be made into an African-themed domain - plenty of jungle, dark skinned inhabitants, a ruthless warlord leader who collects young women to be his brides...

Actually, the flavor of the domain now reminds me more, if anything, of North American Indians, with the African imagery saved for the Wildlands.

From what I read of the Wildlands, it is more of an African Wilderness, as there are no sentient inhabitants other than animals. The humanoids in the domain are either foolish colonists or lost.