4e: Is it D&D to you?

[Le Noir Faineant]

Yes, it is D&D. Just as much as 3e and 2e were.

I protest that!

D&D ended with the publication of this book, 1991!



Everything else is just... Shenanigans!!!

[ewancummins]

Yes, it is D&D. Just as much as 3e and 2e were.

I protest that!

D&D ended with the publication of this book, 1991!



Everything else is just... Shenanigans!!!

Haha! What about the Black Box? Didn't that come a bit later?

In any case, I'm going to be using the good old RC this Staurday. Oh yeah, Keep on the Borderlands is back on! I've retconned it to a Greyhawk+ homebrew setting.

[Catman Jim]

It isn't D&D unless my 5th-level Paladin (Human of course. A demihuman Paladin? Who's heard of such a thing?) with a 18/76 Str has a THAC0 of 14, his bastard sword has a Speed Factor of 6 (8 when used two-handed), and he needs to roll an 11 or better to save versus attacks made with a Rod, Staff, or Wand.

Finally! Someone that speaks my language!

[Lord Soth]

Finally! Someone that speaks my language!

I don't know what it is, but as I was flipping through my old ragged AD&D PHB, I got a sudden urge to play AD&D again, at least for a few games.

[WolfKook]

It is. Haven't you read the cover of the books? Duh!

Seriously, I agree with Strahdsbuddy. It could be as D&D as you want it to be. It's just a matter of how you approach the game.

As of myself, I've always loved to tinker with game systems, so I'll mesh its ideas with those I already have, and I'll play with that. It may not be "D&D", but it'll be a game I'll enjoy (And will force my players to enjoy it too, by all means necessary, as obvious!)

[alhoon]

Oh, Not 2nd Edition! No, No, NO.

OD&D? Sure.
3rd? Sure.
4th? Sure.
But please, not 2nd.

As I have said countless times: I like 4th! I play it these days. But I prefer 3rd.

For a few games, 4th is nice. Then I'll revert to 3rd. Then for a few games to 4th etc.
Maybe, if I'm lucky I'll play OD&D once a while.

However, 4th edition feels much like OD&D (with the exception that a 2HD spider can't kill a couple members of a 5th lvl party).
Simple rules, fast rounds. It adds some nice elements.

[Le Noir Faineant]

However, 4th edition feels much like OD&D...

W-WHAT?!



Do you see that light on the horizon?

- That is FLAMES!!!

[High Priest Mikhal]

However, 4th edition feels much like OD&D

Thank you! This is where a lot of people (myself included) get tripped up. 4e seems to be closer to OD&D, where 3e was like AD&D--or so I'm going to assume from this statement.

[Dion of the Fraternity]

It could be as D&D as you want it to be. It's just a matter of how you approach the game.

I hereby declare that I'd like to be in the fringe minority and that the Storytelling System feels very much D&D to me.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I hereby declare that I'd like to be in the fringe minority and that the Storytelling System feels very much D&D to me.

Nah, you guys are mainstream. I think that Toon feels like D&D.

[NeoTiamat]

Hrm. Well, to answer the question of the thread, I've played a few 4E fights so far (I'm a 2nd level Eladrin Paladin in a Planescape game), and my general thought was:

"So... this is it? What's the big deal?"

It reads a lot more differently than it plays, in my view. You still have the same standard actions, move actions, and swift actions (now called Minor actions), you still have a bunch of per/day abilities, you still have the same classes by and large.

So for me, it felt rather similar to 3.5E. More similar than I'd expected actually.

[Isabella]

Pretty much the first time our GM and group played 4e, we looked at the books, said, "Ok, this looks familiar, what's different?" spent about ten minutes figuring that out, and pretty much played without a hitch. So when people say "This isn't D&D!!!!!!1" I really wonder about them. It feels pretty close to 3.5 to me.

Except I'm actually having fun now.

[Jack of Tears]

D&D =/= Jack Vance.

Have you ever read Jack Vance? Have 90% of the people who comment on the Vancian inspiration of DnD read him? Yes, one can see where there was some little inspiration taken from the man - particularly in the spell casting system - but that is it. No DnD setting I've encountered has had anything to do with Vance, or has even remotely reflected Vance's material/writing style ... the closest would probably be Planescape, and even then I think that was more accident than intent.

None of the DnD systems have ever been remotely similar to Vance's work. (aside from the aformentioned spell system)

And, you know what, Relating something to Vance, if it deserves it, is not an insult - the man had a brilliant mastery of the english language, an incredible wit, and plain knew how to tell a good yarn.

Vance's tales are some of the most enjoyable times you'll have in front of a book. (and, if anyone is curious, there is a fantastic rpg based on his Dying Earth setting: http://www.dyingearth.com/ )

As for the question, "Is 4E DnD?" Sure, it's just not my kind of DnD, same as the 3.x editions before it.

[Ancalagon]

My ignorant outsider's perspective was mostly shaped by the preview booklets they put out early this year. It didn't seem much like D&D to me. It seemed like a vague approximation of D&D, more or less indistinguishable from any generic fantasy-themed online game. None of it persuaded me that it was likely to capture the same role-playing flavor I'd enjoyed from earlier versions.

Emphasis mine.

Good point, Amicus. The flavor of the game is markedly different from the early versions of the game. E.g. B/X, AD&D.

Half-dragon (a la DragonLance draconians), half-demon/devil/insert lower planar creature name here (a la AD&D MMII Cambion) and other such critters were meant as NPCs to use as foes of the heroes. Now they are superkewl, badarsed superhero player character races with kewl powerz. For some perspective from the creator of the game please see the AD&D DMG p.21 "The Monster as a Player Character."

Tactics, strategy, and resource management have been blunted by the inexhaustible abilities now found in the newest version of WotC's d20 fantasy game. Who needs to think anymore when you can cast spells until the end of time and seemingly regenerate hit points like Wolverine by way of healing surges?

Can 4E be played and enjoyed? Certainly; it already is. Since WotC owns the name Dungeons & Dragons, they can slap the logo on anything they want, a can of Spam, a roll of Charmin, a box of chocolates, etc., and call it D&D. But those who have been around long enough to have knowledge of the various stages of the game know that 4E, by way of flavor and spirit of the game, is no longer D&D.

[Pamela]

How is the inclusion of tieflings, dragonborn and eladrin different from the dozens of monster PCs that 3e had? Hell, I knew people playing gold dragon PCs in 3e, let alone tieflings and aasimars. If you're going to blame any edition for the introduction of monsters as PCs with "superkewl" powers, you better go back an edition.

I am sorry if you didn't think it necessary to have a strategy when you played your 4e game; I personally found it necessary very early on. You might check the book a little more carefully; non-casters' abilities are not magical, and are known as 'exploits' (ya know, like barbarian rage?) and healing surges aren't the same as regeneration.

As someone who has "been around long enough to have knowledge of the various stages of the game" (early '80's, if you really must know and consider it that important), I still see this game as D&D.