The Eye of Anubis: OOC Thread

[NeoTiamat]

On a related note, we have four people going on the spelunking expedition, it seems, so you guys figure out a good time for everyone and contact me. Figure a couple of hours.

[The Whistler]

Really anytime tomorrow works for me, preferably late afternoon-ish. Just let me know.

[yalenusveler]

That's splendid for me as well.

[NeoTiamat]

Just checked with Kage, DocBeard, and Yalenus, current preferred time seems to be 4 PM Eastern.

[The Whistler]

Works for me!

[NeoTiamat]

Alrighty!

I have logged XP for the big RP, for the current feedback, and for the end of the Book. This means that everyone here has gained a very hefty chunk of Experience, and the following people have leveled up!

Khalil
Charles
Lia
Ishaq

A few others are very close.

[NeoTiamat]

And that's all she wrote, folks!

I'll let this wonderful discussion of relative virtues and vices of lying fat men continue for a bit, and put up Book Seven some time later today. This doesn't mean you have to stop posting in Book Six while there's still stuff to talk about, but I'll be moving things forth. I'll probably ask Nathan to lock that thread in a few days, once the conversation seems to be over.

I'll probably get around to writing a hefty written response to the Feedback later today.

[Nathan of the FoS]

Anything else on Book 6? That seems to round it off rather nicely, I think, but does anyone want to ask Khalil more questions before we move on?

[NeoTiamat]

I think Charles has the perfect closing line, so I'm all for locking the Book.

[NeoTiamat]

Aaaaalrighty Grand Feedback Response Time

As usual, I'll try and organize all the comments into a set of discreet phrases, and the answer them one by one. Instead of my usual Book and Novel division, I'll divide these into mechanical/gameplay issues and then possibly come back with a few short comments on my gaming philosophy / villains / themes.

1. It can be frustrating for PCs to get disabled.
2. Enemies always seem to make their saves / this is frustrating.
3. Perhaps the encounters can be more personalized to the PCs?
4. Perhaps fights that don't start right now immediately/like? Give PCs a chance to prepare in the long term?
5. Book was slow to start and felt 'jerky'
6. Not everyone got a Challenge.
7. Riddles wasn't quite as successful as hoped for.
8. We need more foes-per-fight.
9. PCs would like for their strategies to occasionally work.

Miss anything on the gameplay aspect? If so, please point it out.

1. It can be frustrating for PCs to get disabled. == Well, this is my first experimentation with wide-scale debuffs, as opposed to having monsters simply ladle out huge chunks of damage. All-told, while I am satisfied that it produced a tense combat, the fact that some PCs got battered by it more than others wasn't too good.

A few things to note on disables, however. First off, there are a lot of you, which means that your enemies are powerful compared to a normal enemy for your level. This means that whatever they do, they do well. When almost every action taken by a foe was some kind of debuff or partial debuff, expected to be disabled very thouroughly.

Another note is that you guys are getting the level where enemy actions in general are getting more serious. Enemies have more options available, which means that the results of any action can be severe. On the other hand, PCs are getting more and more options available to them, particularly the spellcasters.

Third and final note is that the disables weren't quite as severe as they looked, when all is said and done. Otto and Charles had good complaints, though I notice that both also managed to be quite useful in the fight. As for the Awesome Blow..... technically, it was meant to be a debuff for only a round and a half it takes to climb back up, maybe a round more if you have a horrible Climb Score. When you add Feather Fall, however, the time stretched.

In the end, I think that while I will be using Disables and Debuffs from time to time (if only to not have to deal as much damage to you guys), it is unlikely that there will be another fight quite as heavy on the disables.

2. Enemies always seem to make their saves / this is frustrating. == Couple of notes here. One is that early in the campaign, you were usually facing a single foe, or very few, which meant he was much higher level and thus had much better saves, as a result of that. However, as I go into below, this is becoming less of a case.

Secondly, in the last fight at least, Spite and Malice were rolling incredibly well. Simply put, sometimes the dice are hot. On the other hand, some fights the monster can't roll a 10 to save it's life (I think the Cistern Thing had this problem).

Thirdly, Spite and Malice's saves weren't all that good. They started the fight with a +6 // +12 // +11. After Prayer and Salting, Spite was down to +3 // +9 // +8. At which point she was hit with a Fortitude save-requiring Sound Lance. Exit Spite, Stage Left.

Conclusion: Saves were really high before, but are getting lower. They will remain somewhat high simply because of how the mechanics of having eight people work, but it is getting better.

The two exceptions to this are archvillains, and their will saves in particular. Most of my major villains are caster-types, which means they have very good will saves, and both Cavendish and the Anubite are meant as ending game foes. Cavendish is a high level divine spellcaster. Do not expect him to fail a will save.

His mooks, on the other hand....

3. Perhaps the encounters can be more personalized to the PCs? == This is one of those things which I personally consider "Good in theory, difficult in execution." This sort of thing requires a lot of planning, and it can be hard to integrate seamlessly. Not to mention that in the case of Kuzan's mobility, for instance, it's completely trumped by one Fly spell from Lia, which action doesn't strike me as being interesting enough to be worth an encounter. This can happen to other things also.

Still, it's a cool idea, but I don't promise anything. If it did happen, it'd most likely be in the various 'Tomb of Horrors'-type places, like the Lorelei's Temple most recently. I needn't worry quite so much about fitting things seamlessly there.

4. Perhaps fights that don't start right now immediately/like? Give PCs a chance to prepare in the long term? == Again, hard to integrate, and I have a profound paranoia of letting the PCs talk too much (it tends to grind pacing to a halt). On the other hand, you guys really did an incredible job planning the last two fights, so I'll see what I can do.

5. Book was slow to start and felt 'jerky'. == I blame the fact that it's still summer, and that it was another of those 'PC-Centric' books at start. I was pretty much waiting for you guys to go meet the Anubite, which took much longer than I wanted to. Fault of the medium, really.

6. Not everyone got a Challenge. == Sorry about that. I probably should've gone in to this with more planning, but not everyone's challenge just 'appeared' to me. (Otto's was the very first one conceptually also). In particular not everyone had skills that lent themselves easily towards Challenges. Mea Culpa.

7. Riddles wasn't quite as successful as hoped for. == Bad DM! This is an example of "Good Idea, Bad Execution," except from my side. Problem there is that I am normally really bad at riddles, so I kind of underestimated how long you guys can go on with riddles. That'll teach me to do stuff I've no idea on how to do.

8. We need more foes-per-fight. == If you'll notice, that's what you're getting. This Book had more total foes than any Book since Ravnika, since the first fight had a main Assassin-type and three bruisers, while the second had a controller, a blaster, and another bruiser. This was my first experimentation on a major scale with multi-foe fights (since the horrible Defacer fight), and I am happy.

Expect more mooks yet.

9. PCs would like for their strategies to occasionally work. == This is suffering in part due to my tendency to try and make fights with lots of twists and turns. That said, your schemes this Book worked out not too badly. Without Kuzan teleporting himself and Andre to the statue, that entire fight would've worked out a lot worse.

You do have a better track record outside of fights, I admit. Tomas basically managed to argue (or BS, if you wan't to be less charitable about it I kid) past the first Trial, and Andre pretty much pulled the rug out from under me with his worshipping the Lorelei.

The other fact, however, is that only in this Book have I really noticed you guys coming up with elaborate plans. Kudos on that, and keep it up, and it will pay off.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So in the end, policy prescriptions for me:

-Groups of foes
-A few disables
-Stop beating up on the rogues and scouts
-Include a few fights where PCs get to prep a while before
-Let the PCs plans work occasionally.

As always, if you think I've missed something, please say. I'll consider what I want to say regarding the rest of the feedback after I've digested it some more.

[NeoTiamat]

Second mass of feedback response. This is where I'll add my thoughts on the more literary aspects of EoA. Translation: This is where the DM gets to be pretentious.

Part One: The Antagonists!

John Lancaster Cavendish: Or as I sometimes think of him, the accidental villain. Strange though it may seem, given how thoroughly Cavvy has taken up the Arch-Villain role of the campaign, but JLC was originally designed as a one-off villain who'd show up at the start of the campaign and disappear for a very long time. Then came Book Two, and I need a suitably monstrous entity for Dimitry to turn into. Then I noted that given the presence of Allikhain, Cavendish was a natural.

The rest, as they say, is history. By Book's end I had almost half of my PCs swearing death-vendettas against Cavendish, and the general response was so negative that Cavvy's fate was assured. A few campaign rewrites later, and Cavendish makes his second appearance in Book Four, to somewhat lesser acclaim, though I still have fond memories of the Muzeavh scene.

Stylistically, I tend to consider Cavendish the 'Id' of my villains. He's the Joker, Andre is correct. He's a wild, chaotic, bizarre creature that maintains danger by the fact that his madness is tempered by pure evil and chilling effectiveness. Cavendish so far holds the distinction of being the sole person to have killed PCs. He's horribly over-the-top... but just because he's singing a jaunty tune while killing you does not negate the fact that he is killing you.

Camp is something to think about, but camp, definitionally, is something that revels in style over substance, in pointing out the ironies of the medium. Cavendish so far avoids it by the fact that he has plentiful substance under his style, in particular the most horrid substance of all. He kills people. He does it with a smile, with a song and a dance, but at the bottom of it, Cavendish is a serial killer.

The Anubite, Assassin of the Psychopomp: The Anubite is another entity that has evolved considerably over the course of the campaign. At the very first, the Anubite was a homicidal cultist, hearkening back to the cultists from the Mummy movies, Mehemet Bey, interspersed with a fair feeling of Mole Ram from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

Then came the scene with the Vossath Nor Arch, and the revelation of the Anubite's gender, and her guidance to Ghostdeath Knoll. This, strangely, cemented the Anubite as a more morally ambiguous foe in the eyes of the PCs, even though I'd been thinking of it as her simply trying to get you killed in the most direct fashion (She was pointing your towards nest of giant phase spiders, I should add). Well, this seemed a more interesting avenue than the one I originally had, and so you have the more fanatical, strongly Lawful Neutral/Evil Anubite that you see today.

Speaking stylistically, the Anubite is the Superego of my villainous trio. She is the living embodiment of Duty. She bears a certain resemblance now to Vhailor of Planescape Torment, now that I think of it, in that she's an exemplar of a cause.

And yet... there's more to it, but since it's a mystery, I think I'll fall silent here.

Menetnashte, the Golden One: In many ways, Menetnashte is the motive force for the campaign. And yet, you know very little of him. He was a diabolist and a desecrator of Anubis's religion, but in his life he crafted an empire of astounding size and power.

So far, you've seen only the signs of his passing, in the form of his forgotten fortress of Dezbar and in the Statue of Beyrath. These signs alone served as the foci of two Books, and this will not be the last you see of Menetnashte. The entire campaign, all the sinister schemes of Cavendish, all the strivings of the Anubite, all the politics and intrigues and madness, takes place in his shadow. And a most malevolent shadow it is.

Menetnashte is the 'Ego' of the campaign, and on the surface at least, fulfills many of the stereotypes of the Dark Lord type of villain, Sauron being the classical example. Incredibly evil, incredibly powerful. But on the other hand, he's a Dark Lord who was successful in ruling the world.

Cevdet Tarik, Red Wizard of Hazlan: Oh Cevdet, how low I have failed you. Cevdet Tarik was actually a former player character of mine, just as Basler Nisanci was a former PC of Kaitou Kage, in a sadly very short-lived campaign.

In retrospect, I really should've been more active with Cevdet, had him at least visit with Basler once or twice during the earlier parts of the Book. So I badly failed with that. On the other hand, in the brief periods of time he was present, he managed to completely bamboozle the PCs and send them off to get killed by a cave in, so that was fun.

Not too much more to say about Cevdet, sadly. He suffered from a horribly mishandled plot on my part.

Marchosias, the Red King, Marquis of Hell: Marc worried me excessively during the Book in question, in large part because I wasn't quite certain how successfully he came across as a villain. Between the hot pants (there's a reasonable explanation, I swear) and the 'Fiendy McBirddog' comments, I was absolutely certain I'd fallen flat on my face with this one. The fact that Fiends in general seem to be anathema to Ravenloft didn't exactly make me feel more confident about the situation.

On the other hand, looking back, it was possibly more a case of joking in the face of the fact that there's a bloody lord of HELL in the same castle, and desiring nothing more than to damn you into eternal pain. He came across well in the cutscenes, at any rate. Ironically, the Faerie have been much more successful Faustian bargainers than him, which I'm not sure what to make of.

The Featherflute's Court: I love Faerie. The comparison to Pan's Labyrinth makes me very proud. I always consider the Fair Folk to be some of the more terrifying entities possible, because they're so close and yet so very different from people. My normal rule when dealing with the Faerie is that what they do should make a certain 'Twisted Logic'. I tend to think a lot of people forget the logic part when crafting the Faerie. They're not utterly chaotic. They have a rationality to them.... it's just a very strange one to mortals.

The Court actually underwent a number of evolutions to its present form. (Spite and Malice were originally the stars of the show. Featherflute was a late addition, after I saw the truly unnerving artwork in the Monster Manual V). In the end, there's not too much to say here. I tend to consider Faerie as borderline elemental spirits, with each of the Fey present embodying concepts as part of them. Add to this is an element of whimsy and madness, and also a kind of 'let's make a deal' mentality that seems to have caught quite a few PCs in their nets.

I think we'll see Faerie again, if not necessarily Featherflute. The Lorelei, interestingly enough, was a very minor character in my plans until Charles spoke to her, at which point I had an idea for a truly (if I do say so myself) unnerving speech culminating in "I. HATE. Love". Of course, I wasn't expecting Andre to go and worship her. What a life.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, mind you, in addition to the ones above you guys have also met, I think, four groups of antagonists so far, but they've been staying in the background, though really clever PCs might be able to name all of them.

I think I'll take a break here, this is enough for people to chew over for a while.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

And now it's time for Johnny-come-latey feedback!

Part One: How did you like the Book as a whole?
I rather liked it. If it started out slightly slow, it soon picked up speed enormously. The conclusion 'oh crap, they've been souljacked' made it clear to me that the ante was very high, indeed.

The return of the Fey was disconcerting from the very beginning; after Ravnika, it seemed clear to me that they were not to be underestimated (even if I did, from time to time) and could be highly dangerous. My only regret was that I didn't get to ICly hear the background on all the Fey. Speaking OOCly, Featherflute seems like a tragic fallen hero-type to me. At one point, he allowed love to come before duty, and he's been paying for it ever since, to the point that he's lost his mind. Atheling ... he needs to step up and depose his master. If he loves him too much to kill him, he needs to find another way, but he must depose him, for the good of his own people. The Lorelei just made me really angry. ^^; I was unable to see the better aspects of her like yalenusveler was, I just saw this crazy, knowledgeable, baby-killing creature from times before. The only reason I wouldn't advocate killing her is because she provides water for Kermansha. Ivor Stahlrheim is a good example of why you should always study the fine print of a contract; his situation was the result of a Faustian deal gone wrong, but he retained some honour (or maybe learned it during his service?) and in the end he kind of made good. Spite and Malice ... Crazy and dangerous. I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. I don't know if they have any beneficial aspect to their character, and after the battle and their treatment of the manticore, I'm not about to go looking.

Part Two: How did the combat go?

The battle against the shadow-constructs just really irked me, mostly because I was trying to fight the opponent who was practically immune to my method of fighting. This is not to say that this was a badly-planned combat, I just picked the wrong target. The build of the constructs was fairly intense, but well-planned.

The battle against the Fey ... Intriguing, to say the least! It's not nice to face smart enemies who know how to use all of their tricks to their advantage, but it is challenging. Despite the fact that I was worried we wouldn't make it when we were actually fighting, in hindsight I have to say it was one of the more interesting battles we've had.
===============================================

Antagonists, Recurring and Otherwise:
Cavendish. What's not to hate about Cavvie? As some have said before me, he's a posturing, capering clown. But that makes him all the worse as a villain; he demeans his victims as well as his targets by the way he does things, dirtying the world while amusing himself. The fact that he's clever enough to consistently fool us and keep escape strategies and a magical cloaking device-type spell in mind, makes him even more dangerous. He just doesn't seem like the type to take a stand, practically guaranteeing his return again and again.

The Anubite. She's grown as a character, steadily becoming more complex. Starting as just a puzzling enemy, she's become an authority figure whose opinion and motives we may actually have to respect ... Still, she's a stone-cold killer when she feels it is her duty. As adventurers, we can't complain too much about that (black kettle, black pot), but still ... Even if we have to respect her, I don't quite like her.

Cevdet Tarik. With all respect for NT's love for the guy, his scheme made him no more than a one-off villain to me. If he'd managed to survive the battle in the mine and continued to plague us, I seriously doubt he could ever have loomed as large in our minds as do Cavendish and the Anubite. He was smart enough to put us in a bad situation, but overall, I found his way of doing things a bit ... sloppy. He made too much of a mess and ignored important details. He was a strong opponent in the final battle, true, but he was never going to be as big a threat as the main antagonists.

Marchosias. Creepy as all get-out, highly powerful and sneaky. If not for his being imprisoned, I'm sure he would've been an even more terrifying opponent. I was sure from the moment he appeared that I didn't want any character of mine to fight him directly. This guy just radiated menace, and all his gentlemanly manners didn't fool me for a minute. I applaud NT for portraying such a scary guy, while simultaneously giving him the style that Cavendish lacks, and making it clear there was a whole lot of evil and anger underneath the style. I'm still amazed we managed to defeat him in one Book -- I fully expected it to take us several Books to gather the ingredients needed to finally kill him. In a way, his treatment as a one-off, rather than a building threat at our backs, was somewhat anticlimactic.

As to the Fey, please see above for individual descriptions. As a whole, I consider the Fey to be highly dangerous. They're enough like us to seem understandable and approachable, powerful enough to get things done that we need, but also greedy and weird enough to turn any and all contact (not to mention contract) with them into a trial. I won't be overly sorry if we've seen the last of them for a few Books at least. I was very surprised to encounter them deep in the desert.

Part Two: Overarching Campaign Myth Arcs:
The Expedition started fairly harmoniously, back when we didn't know each other so well. Now, a few Books later, the fractures are really starting to show as we find out more interesting things about each other ... Right now, I think it's a toss-up whether we'll manage to pull everyone together, or that significantly less people will manage to make it to Har'Akir than originally set out.

The Myth of Menetnashte is finally starting to take shape, after the Anubite's revelation and our research in Dezbar and Phiraz. We seriously need to get access to a copy of 'the Jackal Wars', that book that relates the tale of the internal war of the Cult of Anubis. Or else we need to find some information elsewhere ... The more we find out about Menetnashte, the more the question arises whether this trip is going to be worth all the trouble, or that we came here with entirely the wrong reason, only to discover the right one as we go. It's shaping up to be a classic tale of folks setting out to do something that seems to be pretty normal, only to find out they've stumbled into a quest to save the world ... and that not everyone in the group is on board for that. I rather like it.

Part Three: Themes.
I wouldn't say that the campaign is getting more 'gothic' as we continue. It i growing more intense as we go. With every location we go to, it is becoming clearer and clearer that the stakes for the expedition are high and getting higher, and that the world is a far more dangerous place than some of us might have ever expected. While not necessarily becoming more gothic, the game is definitely picking up speed and depth as we go further, demanding more of our ingenuity. The main reason why I wouldn't say the game is getting more 'gothic', is that we have managed to score a few fairly decisive victories in the course of our adventure. There have been bad moments and Pyrrhic victories, too, but not everything is completely hopeless. The forces of darkness are not riding entirely roughshod over us, we're unsaddling them from time to time -- which is something I like very much about this campaign: the occasional victory.

Themes I noticed: The theme of the Faustian deal, as represented by the Fey, is an unnerving recurring element, with the power to save and damn several of us.
The hosts of the undead, as summoned by Cavendish, are another nervewracking occurrence which I don't see ending anytime soon -- and Cavvie's been upgrading his troops. This makes me worried as to what he'll wrench up from the grave the next time we meet.
Innocents in danger, even beyond death (so long as we allow the spirits in Dezbar to be considered, to some extent, 'innocent') are another thing I've noticed. I don't think there's been a single occurrence when we were really working solely for our own benefit when fighting a monster or archvillain. There were always other people who stood to benefit from our efforts, and motivated us to put our best effort forward. I rather like this, as it somewhat ennobles our efforts.

Part Four: Misc:
At the end of this section, I want to say it's been fun getting to know all of the characters better, both PCs and NPCs. Even if the characters are sometimes (often ... ) sniping at each other and almost ready to kill one another, it is still interesting to find out what makes everyone tick. The fact that there are still surprises in store is what makes the interaction between characters more interesting. The maneuvering and jockeying for advantage are bad for the whole group's cohesion, but definitely add interest even to seemingly innocent interaction. In the end, I think it would be good for all secrets to be revealed (Heh, look who's talking ...), but right now, discovering them is part of the campaign's fun.

===============================================

House Rules:

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm content with the house rules. If they do restrict our options from time to time, such as by forbidding particular spells, I can accept that these same restrictions just motivate us to use our ingenuity more to get things done. And I consider that to be all to the good.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Magic item for sale!

One +1 Cloak of Resistance, yours to have for a minimum of 700 gp and a promise to maintain the description I've given of it so far. If more than one person wants it, I encourage bidding wars!

[NeoTiamat]

Regarding Dark Knowledge and Animal Companions, or Familiars for that matter, I've got no problem. It's a little strange, but they get so few opportunities to be useful, that I'm willing to look the other way.

[Kaitou Kage]

Magic item for sale!

One +1 Cloak of Resistance, yours to have for a minimum of 700 gp and a promise to maintain the description I've given of it so far. If more than one person wants it, I encourage bidding wars!

Just a little help to Rock's sales pitch here.

700 is cheaper than what Kuzan would charge to have it made