Warlock Patrons Wanted!

[Isabella]

Sounds like you might want to consider developing some Mist-related or otherwise Ravenloft-specific power options for other classes, not just for warlocks.

You could, in theory, create a "Mist" power source along the lines of the "Arcane", "Divine", "Primal" etc. power source. The Striker would be the Mist Pact warlock, with Ezra's anchorites taking up the Leader, and Defender positions I guess. (No idea for the controller.)

However, I am not really interested in having my simple question balloon into designing four brand new 30 level classes (I'm terrible with stats)! I just wanted to know what entities in the realms you guys thought should be able to grant pact powers, regardless, even, of what their pact was defined as.

For example, some Darklords are shoo-ins for this kind of thing: Azalin, Easan (I'd make him Star Pact, actually, but that's me), Gwydion, the Three Hags (who need some serious work if they're even allowed to set foot in my game, much less grant pacts) and the God Brain. Some Darklords are not likely at all to be able to grant pacts: D'Honaire, Malken, Ivan and Ivana, Drakov, etc. (Powers, maybe, but not entire pacts)

And then there are some on the line. Does Malocchio have the ability to grant pacts? He's a cambion and the Dukkar, but in 3.5 he seems to rely on martial mercenaries, not magic. Does Ebonbane grant powers? Another fiend, trapped in a sword; of course, getting to him is really difficult. Does the Nightmare Man have the ability? He might make a good Star Pact patron. What about the Marakith Queen? She could make a good Dark Patron. The Lady of Ravens? I haven't gotten a chance to check out the articles in QtR so I don't know if it's appropriate. Can Harkon Lukas? Grandfather Wolf has a certain mythological quality to him (though to be fair, in the stuff I'm working on he's been stripped of his Darklordhood and Kartakass is merged with Verbrek, so it'd be slightly more appropriate there). Can Diamabel? He's half-fiend or fiendish of whatever, but can he? Would he? Can Death, or Anton Misroi? It seems like they ought to be able to, but their big theme is being total posers. And I'm certain I've missed a few even in that overview.

Then there's the mess of fiends. For those 4e inclined, Demons aren't outsiders anymore, meaning the fiends in Ravenloft get split in two. Fortunately, only one of the fiends in VRGtD matches the wanton destruction of the new demons, which is the Whistling Fiend; all the others seem to scheme to some extent. The Whistling Fiend makes for a bad patron anyway. However, do you think the Gentleman Caller can grant them, and do you think he would bother? My first instinct is "no" on the latter at least, but I don't claim to be an expert on Ravenloft. Can Elsepeth grant powers? She's a fiend, but succubi aren't terribly powerful. The other question marks are the Demons of Chateaufaux, who are also not very powerful (and also not very interesting, to me).

The fey Lords and the Lady of the Lake are good ideas (I think Yutow is as dead as dead can be), but I'm sure I'm missing a few. Kalibos? (Once again, I haven't got a chance to check the QtR and book of S_).

Same with the Star Pact. Several of the Darklords mentioned above probably would get filed under Star Pact (Nightmare Man, all of the Nightmare Court, really) but can you think of any I missed?

[Ryan Naylor]

Of course Yutow's dead. Everyone knows that. But he's also still alive.

The Nightmare Man is a good idea.

For the fiends, I would definitely include Ebonbane, the Black Duke, Elsepeth, and the Chateaufaux Demons. You get a good variety of patron types then as well: you've got martial might (Baltoi the Sleeping Beast might be good for that too, actually), domination and tyranny (the Black Duke), seduction and charisma (Elsepeth, who is well known for cutting deals), and deception (Chateaufaux).

Inajira is obvious as well.

I wouldn't use Drigor (busy with the Madrigorian and trying to escape), the Gentleman Caller (trying to escape and avoid Isolde*), the Whistling Fiend (especially because it might be dead) or Malocchio (has other issues on his plate, and has never shown much magical might).

* There's also a metagaming issue with Gentleman Caller in that you'd think, looking at published materials, that he's the only fiend who ever does anything in Ravenloft. Given there are at least 13 others running around, it would be nice to do something with them.

I think Diamabel is a good idea, but I would give him the power to grant two different sorts of pacts: a relatively nice one during the day in his role as benefactor and Lord of Good, and a mind shattering other one at night in his Angel of Death and Vengeance form.

[Igor the Henchman]

It depends how you see Patrons, I guess. If you restrict the list to entities physically capable of granting powers themselves, you got few options. On the other hand, a patron might just be the guy who gave the warlock the necessary pointers in exchange for an undisclosed future favor. The pact itself was sealed with some unfathomable remote source that mortals do not comprehend, with the patron acting as intermediary. Guys like Drigor and Gentleman Caller would have no problem doing something like that.

[Igor the Henchman]

But seriously, if you want a good, nice list of Patrons, there's no going around making your own. Most of the guys we're listing here just weren't designed with that role in mind and shoehorning them into it requires quite a bit of re-invisioning anyway. Have you thought about re-using some Vestiges from the 3.5 book Tome of Magic? Many entities in that are *very* Ravenloft-y. Paimon the Dancer is a major Gothic tale all in himself.

Ah, and for the Star Pact, you might also use... er, Whatsherface, the Hated Mother I think she's called. You know, the damn subterranean thing the Dark Delvers in the Mountains of Misery worship.

[Nathan of the FoS]

Oh, what the heck. I'll sponsor one. We've all got to do our part, right?

[Isabella]

I suppose there might be a bit of awkwardness if the Warlock became stronger than his/her patron, but I don't see that as a huge issue. In the case of fiends (the ones its most likely to come up for) they still own your soul, and surpassing your patron might get you landed as a warlock patron yourself (...now, I am the master! Epic level Ravenloft, anyone?)

Alright, here's my current master list; it's much beefier now so thank you all kindly (although I wouldn't say no to more suggestions):

Fey Pact Warlock
The Loas of Souragne
The Green Maiden
The Three Hags
Loht, Maeve, and the other seven Fey Lords
The Lady of the Lake

Infernal Pact Warlock
The Black Duke
Elsepeth
Inajira
Melano and Tisiphanes (Demons of Chateaufaux)
Malistroi
Baltoi the Sleeping Beast
Ebonbane

Star Pact Warlock
The Illithid God Brain
Gwydion
The Green Maiden
The Nightmare Court (Some of these might be Fey Pact as well)

Unsorted
Azalin Rex (For some reason I think "Star Pact")
Diamabel (Letsee... naughty/nice pacts? Uh...)
Easan the Mad (Most people would say Infernal, but I use the Dread Poss in the Nocturnal Sea Gaz [because I sent it in and all] and throw that stupid imp out the window, so I'd say Star)

Questionable
The Lady of Ravens (Fey Pact, I assume)
The Marakith Queen (Dark)
Harkon Lukas (Fey - Barghest anyone?)
Death (Dark if included. He's a poser, though, so I didn't know if I wanted to let him grant power)
Anton Misroi (Same problem as Death. I'm also not sure what he should grant, Fey or Dark. Or both.)
Yutow (Fey? I don't remember much about him. This guy was never that interesting to me.)
The Hated Mother (Dark, if she exists.)
Ebb and Gloom (There's just something about DRAGON that says "bargain with me for power" to me. Dark Pacts, probably.)

and of course, Nathan of the FoS. I'm sure he'll consider your case carefully and grant whatever power he deems will fit you best.

[Lanus]

While I'm working on that: I agree that Darklords should be a ready source for power. Throwing the ball back in your court: Should the study of the Mists be a Dark Pact, or a Ravenloft-unique Mist Pact?

Actually I don't think darklords should be patrons or grant powers to warlocks (at least not most of them) because a Darklord is obsesed and frustrated by not beign able to fufill his wishes. By succumbing to the depths of moral corruption they forfeited their original purposes in life and became a mockery of their former selves, trapped in body and mind in a prision of their own doing.

Having them giving powers gaves them like a whole other duties that may or may not (mostly may not) fit with their themes. Also it generate the "LOL STRAHD IS MAH PATRON" reaction.

So, i would suggest that only certain (and very few) darklords grant warlock powers: Namely Azalin Rex (having a cadre of Warlocks devoted to him in the Kargat sound cool enough) and maybe the darklord from the shadow rift (that's akin to a god is not mistaken) and the illithid god brain. They're genre savvy enough to try and find loops in their curses and powerful and motivated enough to grant the neccesary powers

Although, they're better for evil PCs and NPCs. Heroic ones should use books, imo

[kourkenko]

just a question: who is Yutow ?

[Ryan Naylor]

Yutow the Provider is the god of the Valachani. He apparently died saving the indigenous people from the colonial Vaasi, but still grants spells and looks after them... from beyond the grave!


In other news, I don't think there's any question that Anton Misroi would be able to grant Pacts, because he is after all the actual Lord of the Dead. Read his description - it says he's one of the most powerful lords in Ravenloft. The reason Souragne isn't part of the Core/a Cluster is because *he doesn't want it to be*.

I certainly wouldn't let any darklord grant pacts, but some are really obvious patrons, and some (like Azalin or Misroi) might even sponsor good heroes, as long as they didn't oppose them and were useful to their own schemes.

To weigh in again on Isabella's unsorted lists, I'd give:

Azalin - Star or Dark (really it comes down to how you see the character and how many of each type you have)
Diamabel - Fey for the day and star for the night, or perhaps star by day and infernal by night.
The Lady of Ravens - fey
Anton Misroi - dark or fey (since he's essentially the loah of the dead)
Yutow - fey
Hated Mother - dark (who cares if she exists - Yagno Petrovna can still cast spells)
Ebb and Gloom are great ideas, too.

Personally, I wouldn't let Harkon Lucas or the Marikith Queen grant pacts.

[Lanus]

To weigh in again on Isabella's unsorted lists, I'd give:

Azalin - Star or Dark (really it comes down to how you see the character and how many of each type you have)
Diamabel - Fey for the day and star for the night, or perhaps star by day and infernal by night.
The Lady of Ravens - fey
Anton Misroi - dark or fey (since he's essentially the loah of the dead)
Yutow - fey
Hated Mother - dark (who cares if she exists - Yagno Petrovna can still cast spells)
Ebb and Gloom are great ideas, too.

Personally, I wouldn't let Harkon Lucas or the Marikith Queen grant pacts.

Im totally in favor that really powerful beigns (who aren't Darklords) can grant pacts. With darklords we oughta be more careful but your selections seems spot on =D.

[Nathan of the FoS]

I dunno, I'm not sure I would give any "normal" Darklord the ability to grant warlock powers (Gwydion, the God-Brain, the Nightmare Court, and Ebonbane being the foremost examples of "not normal" for these purposes.) Misroi would make the short list because of his status as a loa, and Death might make the cut. Darklords who are "like folks" just seem like a bad fit for this.

So, I'd drop Azalin, Diamabel, Easan, the Lady, the M-Queen, and Lukas, and give Death the Dark , Misroi either Fey or Dark, Yutow Fey, the Hated Mother Dark, and Ebb and Gloom Dark pacts.

Me, I'm planning on handing out the Star pact, although I'll take special requests.

[Isabella]

I forgot Hala for Fey Pact. Dur!

[Gnarfflinger]

Another interesting twist that the Warlock could have in Ravenloft would be whether or not they actually know the identity of their patron. Could the demiplane itself grant the pact boon and spells?

And let's see what Martial Power adds to Fighters, Rangers, Rogues and Warlords, by then an extra pact or two might work for Ravenloft instead of one of the pre-existing pacts...

[NykylaiHellray]

Going on what Isabella said about creating new classes.

I was thinking of maybe a type of druid which beliefs have been twisted by the demiplanes. The idea I am thinking is a Thornweaver. Who instead of encoraging growth, encorages decay.

Of course the idea is sparse until the 4E druid class comes out to make the adaptation on.

[Irving the Meek]

If you're staying with the initial conceptualization of Ravenloft as a prison demiplane, the best answer in my opinion would be the "Ezra answer" - the Warlock think they're making a deal with patron X, but in reality they're dealing with the Dark Powers. In a real sense, it doesn't even matter who the patron is supposed to be at that point. Yango Petrova, the lord of G'Henna, could be an infernal pact warlock, even though he invented his infernal patron out of whole cloth. (Orcus or another BBEG might pretend to be said patron in a non-confined plane, of course, but it probably gets tedious after a while.)