Blackguards in Ravenloft

[ewancummins]

Anybody ever use the 3e Blackguard or something similar in Ravenloft?

Elena Faithold is rather a different thing, I'd say, as she does not admit to being evil.

[kourkenko]

Rather than using the Blackguard class, i used the paladin of tyrrany coming from the Unearthed Arcane for 3.5
It fit her more than the Blackguard imo.

https://dungeons.fandom.com/wiki/UA:Pal ... s_Features

just change what you don't like about this class and doesn't fit the character in your campaign.

[Mistmaster]

I use Pathfinder 1 so I use the Antipaladin variant class and the Tyrant Archetype; I have invented the Holy Liberator Paladin Archetype.

[The Lesser Evil]

Most recently, I was running Ravenloft, I was also using PF and therefore would've used the antipaladin, with the tyrant (LE) or insinuator (any evil) archetypes or just house ruling the antipaladin if I needed a antipaladin of other evil alignments beyond CE. No prominent examples of them being used come to mind, although memory could simply be failing me. In any case, I'll count for the purposes of discussion any class that would fit a similar role (e.g. oathbreaker paladins in 5e, etc.)

So in Ravenloft it seems like relatively fewer religions openly embrace capital E Evil as a way of life, meaning that card-carrying EVIL! blackguards may be fewer in number. (The Church of the Spider Queen, the Cult of Erlin, the Cult of Vecna, and the Cult of the Wolf God may have some notable exceptions.) However, the muted nature of alignment detection and therefore lessened perception of concrete Good and Evil may be lead to more blackguards choosing the class for Evil methods/means to achieve their end goals, rather than Evil as an ends. In any case, I'd think that most blackguards in Ravenloft would embrace the class with some rationalized purpose in mind. The Church of the Lawgiver's blackguards would emphasize harsh (by those outside the church's perspective) methods for the greater goal establishing/maintaining order. Vecna's blackguards would probably take a code that emphasizes brutality and manipulation in order to collect and hoard secrets. Even the more Chaotic brands might adopt a reasoning for what they do to make them look like the true good guys- for example the darkest takes on the survival of the fittest philosophy meaning culling of the week or undesirable and thereby strengthening future generations.

In addition to established religions, I could see orders of blackguards serving various darklords in roles akin to the Nightlord PrC from Champions of Darkness, particularly more martial darklords or those less attuned or familiar with the cosmic nature of the Demiplane of Dread. For example, Vlad Drakov might have an order of evil knights particularly dedicated to him and the Falkovnian state, for example. (I don't buy he completely eschews divine spellcasting- he might likely have a secret order of state cult priests to construct his gargoyle golems if nothing else.) The blackguard would also be the natural choice for favored servants in various fiend cults- a fiend could grant access to blackguard levels provided the supplicants peformed the Blood Oath ritual.

[ewancummins]

I'd say the biggest obstacle to the blackguard, as written, is the requirement of making peaceful contact with a summoned evil outsider.

Outsiders are supposed to be rare and summoning is usually one-way in Ravenloft. Few evil outsiders will react well to being trapped.

[ewancummins]

But the blackguard could already be an blackguard before entering Ravenloft.


And maybe a fiend trapped in Ravenloft deliberately seeks to create/sponsor blackguards. It slew its foolish summoner. Now it realizes it cannot get home, so it's making the worst of its situation.

This fiend might take on the persona of an evil baron, to whom blackguards swear fealty.

[Wolfglide of the Fraternity]

Issue 312 of Dragon Magazine provided three Blackguard base classes (full 1-20 level progression), which would circumvent the need for an outsider. The classes are:

1) Anti-paladin: CE nutjob that exists only to cause destruction and suffering.

2) Despot: LE oppressor that will do anything to enforce law and order. Despots detect/smite Chaos instead of Good and have an aura of Law instead of Evil. Also, they use negative energy to sicken dissidents, rather than rebuke undead. Part of their moral code requires them to defend their subjects from external threats. Their association rules are not as restrictive alignment-wise, but they have to be the strongest person in the party. Lesser despots will serve a greater one, but they are always scheming to replace their master.

3) Corrupter: NE deceiver that tries to defile and overturn other faiths. Corrupters can intercede to cut off other divine spellcasters from their deities, and their smites affect divine spellcasters of other faiths. Their association rules are the least restrictive, because they are supposed to insinuate themselves into other groups and corrupt people. Corrupters are by far my favorite class of the three.

[The Lesser Evil]

I'd say the biggest obstacle to the blackguard, as written, is the requirement of making peaceful contact with a summoned evil outsider.

Outsiders are supposed to be rare and summoning is usually one-way in Ravenloft. Few evil outsiders will react well to being trapped.

Good point if you're going by that 3.5 rule, which might put a dampener on what evil religions in Ravenloft would promote blackguards (to my knowledge not many of the established religions are strongly known for fiend summoning).

On the other hand, the fiend in question does not necessarily have to be very powerful (it could be an imp bound as a familiar, for example). This would oddly make evil sorcerers and wizards some of the best possible patrons for blackguards.

Also, in the Ravenloft DMG it states that the Dark Powers remove most of the barriers for fallen paladins with at least one failed powers check to enter the class (as in most of the listed requirements for the class are removed, including the peaceful contact with a summoned fiend). It is even possible for fallen paladins who deny their disgraced status to unconsciously become blackguards (hence Elena Faith-hold).

But the blackguard could already be an blackguard before entering Ravenloft.


And maybe a fiend trapped in Ravenloft deliberately seeks to create/sponsor blackguards. It slew its foolish summoner. Now it realizes it cannot get home, so it's making the worst of its situation.

This fiend might take on the persona of an evil baron, to whom blackguards swear fealty.

This sort of operation sounds a bit like what the Black Duke could have done with his Brotherhood of the Whip.

[ewancummins]

I agree, an imp would work just fine.
It's evil. It's an outsider. Presumably it arrived in Ravenloft by being summoned.
I'm pretty sure that imps made the black box list of recommended monsters.

Imps might be one sort of outsider that doesn't really care as much about getting trapped because at least it's not operating at the bottom of the devilish pecking order anymore. No hope of promotion to a higher sort of fiend, though.... Or is that lower sort?

[ewancummins]

The hellhound might work. The requirement says that you have to have peaceful contact with an evil outsider that has been summoned not necessarily by you. There's nothing that requires it to be a demon or devil.

[DustBunny]

The hellhound might work. The requirement says that you have to have peaceful contact with an evil outsider that has been summoned not necessarily by you. There's nothing that requires it to be a demon or devil.

Likewise you could also do something like the book 'The Revelations of the Prince of Twilight' does. You are put in mental/spiritual contact with an outsider (or an mistborn equivilent), but can't actually summon it physically until later much later.