Do we know 4e Barovia?

[Hell_Born]

So, I've been absent from these boards for a fair while, so I was curious: was the 4e conversion of Barovia in the adventure "Fair Barovia" from Dungeon Magazine #207 ever discussed here? Would people be interested in a breakdown of what that adventure says about the way Barovia was reinterpreted in 4t edition (for example, there are vryloka (pseudo-vampires and a 4e PC race) and dusk elves present, and Frantisek Markov used to live in Vallaki)?

[Mephisto of the FoS]

So, I've been absent from these boards for a fair while, so I was curious: was the 4e conversion of Barovia in the adventure "Fair Barovia" from Dungeon Magazine #207 ever discussed here? Would people be interested in a breakdown of what that adventure says about the way Barovia was reinterpreted in 4t edition (for example, there are vryloka (pseudo-vampires and a 4e PC race) and dusk elves present, and Frantisek Markov used to live in Vallaki)?

Frantisek was the son of Barovian farmers so placing his abandoned house in Vallaki is OK.

Dusk Elves, NOT OK.

I like that there is a priest named Petrovna although he the cousin of the deranged Yagno Petrovna (born in 674 BC), who disappeared years ago (in 702 BC) after almost killing his newborn nephew. Well he didn't disappeared exactly he became High Priest of Zhakata in G'Henna part of the Core and later after the Grand Conjunction (740 BC) an Island of Terror. (serious mess up as it will be more obvious later...)

Leo Dilisnya's shapechanging into a lion and a man-bat hybrid, instead of a wolf and bat, is interesting having the alternate form salient ability. (White Wolf has made a mistake in calculating his age in Gazetteer I classifying him as an Old vampire instead of the 398 Very Old vampire that he is) Leo having a salient ability as a unique vampire before reaching Eminent status as stated in VRGtV is a plus for me.

I wouldn't personally mix Markov's house with the Thaani, the adventure states "When the first Thaani arrived in Vallaki less than a decade ago they laid claim to some half-crumbling houses in the north end of the village. The first house inhabited was the old Markov place, which Vallakians believed was cursed. "

First of all the Thaani moved to Barovia in 581 BC, Kolyan Indrirovich is an NPC in this adventure as well and it is stated that this adventure is taking place before the original Ravenloft I6 which is set in 528 BC (when Barovia was the only domain in the Land of Mists) so before the appearance of Bluetspur in 581 BC, centuries before Frantisek Markov (Markovia formed in 698 BC) and when "S" started writing the Doomsday Gazetteers in 756 BC where it states that Leo is still imprisoned in his tomb since his creation in 398 BC.

So there is a really big problem with dates, events and characters overlapping. Someone (Claudio Pozas) clearly didn't do his homework or if he did then why did it take the Thaani a decade to move to Markov's neighbourhood in the future almost two centuries in the past...

Although the Markov's estate development is interesting I would like to have something like Markov's wife monstrous geist or ghost haunting it, thus the PC's could learn of Frantisek's background and character from his wife, but it should be set in another time period of course (after the creation of Markovia that is).

Manticore in Barovia: NO!

Vasili von Holtz appears, nice addition.

Zerena Lukas daughter of the mercenary bandit leader Red Lukas is a good addition ,but she being a werewolf is kind of a give away for future adventures in Kartakass (or it could be used to misslead adventures which is interesting, but still a giveaway) also Red Lukas was defeated in 350 BC before Strahd became a vampire which makes Zerena Lukas a very very old werewolf (OK I give up with the timeline thing this is some serious Tristenoira stuff going on around here).

There is also a misconception between goblyns and spriggans
"Evil fey have migrated to the Ivlis Marsh, leaving their forlorn homeland behind in search of sentient prey. These ill-tempered miscreants are the source of the nighttime attacks against the village of Barovia. They are called goblyns by Barovians, but scholars and folklorists know them better as spriggans".
While it is interesting to name a monster after another, I wouldn't use evil fey before the appearance of Arak or Tepest, Arak appeared first in 575 BC. With all this timeline mess ups it doesn't matter anymore I guess, but it is interesting naming a creature after another because there was no official 4th edition conversion of goblyns (this is just a guess).

"THE DUKKAR
The most feared entity in Vistani lore is the dukkar, a being prophesied to endanger Vistani everywhere. Past dukkars included the mad seer, Hyskosa, and the fiendish Vistani, Mallochio Aderre. According to the Vistani tradition, the Zarovan tribe is responsible for monitoring the rumors of new dukkars, and to dispose of them if possible. Although this adventure doesn’t have any indication of a new dukkar rising, you can include hints to such a creature. A dukkar could be a cambion, an evil fey, or any manner of supernatural creature that is aimed at destroying the Vistani."

Hyskosa has a brother Soldani who is still alive in 740 BC and their tribe is of the Manusa and Canjar Tasque.
Mallochio Aderre was born in 747 BC and he is of Zarovan descent.

Time mess up explained?

OK I guess this adventure is from the viewpoint of the Zarovan Vistani, for them time is non-linear, since they go back and forth, so it is OK to have all these mixed timelines... (I know I promised to stop but I just couldn't).

Dukkar term mess up

The term Dukkar is given to the rare male Vistani with the gift of The Sight, a prophecy holds that a dukkar will be the destroyer of the vistani race. The Vistani Seers are blind to the birth of such an individual, as such, all male vistani showing signs of this ability even in early age are usually killed by their own tribe. And not to a cambion, an evil fey, or any manner of supernatural creature that is aimed at destroying the Vistani, it just happened that Mallochio was conceived by a fiend and a quarter-vistani darklord of Zarovan descent.

"Keeper's of the Feather or Keepers of the Black Feather?... that is the question..."

1) Pyoor Twohundredsummers and Bray Martikova were first introduced in Forbidden Lore boxed set (Black Box era). Pyoor Twohundredsummers hatched two hundred years before the Forbidden Lore/ Black box era which was a few years before the Grand Conjunction so around 535 BC.

2) Bray was once a wandering adventurer who joined the Keepers after his father died, he owns a silver scimitar sword which is named Feudieu, he retrieved it from a ruined church in Dementlieu (Dementlieu formed in 707 BC).

Add two more timeline mistakes to the list.

BUT there is an interesting twist in KotBF...

"Through rituals taught to him by Pyoor, Bray can change from human form into raven form. Barovian legends refer to such folk as “wereravens,” even though Bray and his kin are not lycanthropes."
I kind of like this take on wereravens as an option, although I am not sure I will use it.

Although in general I think Fair Barovia has some very good elements and although working out the timeline mistakes is necessary, fortuntely replacing characters in the adventure with other's is easy. I would place this adventure after the Doomsday Gazetteers, so Pyoor Twohundredsummers would be replaced by Keeva Sixtywinters as he is dead by then, Bray still lives though. Kolyan Indrirovich and other characters from the original Ravenloft I6 adventure would just have their names changed, (Ilyan Kondrirovich) easy enough.
No Dusk elves, no manticores (yes NO again)

I like the return of Leo Dilisnya and I like that the adventure is inspired by Leo's discovery by Strahd in I, Strahd.

As I 've mentioned the biggest disadvantages of Fair Barovia are the timeline mistakes (...which timeline mistakes?) but probably the biggest downside is that the writers/designers/illustrators of Curse of Strahd where influenced by those mistakes. Probably the writers of the coming Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft were also influenced (if not inspired) by the mistakes of CoS, making Fair Barovia the starting point of a chain reaction of mistakes (from 4E to 5E books), based on not knowing your subject as well as you think.

Then as for the rest of 4th edition Ravenloft goes...

Vryloka a new "race" of individuals who once were human, but turned to vryloka though a blood-bond ritual that subtly changes their appearance and giving them some powers, sounds like a poor inspired combination of a Dhampir and a Witcher, not the least excited.

I liked the revision on the Winding Road to he Endless Road and the role of the Headless Horseman changing from being darklord to being a manifestation of the domain itself with someone else as the darklord. That was inspired and really well presented creating more opportunities with Mr. Horseman instead of an adventuring party death encounter introduction to an adventure (2E From the Shadows).

Haven't read the other 4th edition Dread Domains but it was nice seeing Kalidnay apperaing again (though as a Dark Sun article) while Timbergorge is for me unnecessary as there are better Dread Treants or ex-Dread Treants out there like Blackroot and Azenwrath. In general I prefer the Core than Islands of Terror, so I hven't payed attention to the 4E Islands of Terror and yes I am not thrilled with the news about 5th edition Ravenloft having no Core domains.

Phial of Empty Vessel interesting although an echo of the Silver Amulet of the Beast,

Life of Soth again by Claudio Pozas, Strahd and Van Richten article with Illustrations by Tyler Jacobson and Miles Johnston in dragon Magazine #416 are a plus.

Playing Vistani article in Dragon #380 has probably the worst Ravenloft illustrations ever, all those dragonborn vistani or that power check gifted goat horn raunie. For me it is problematic as it is many steps backwards to 2E Van Richten's Guide to the Vistani.

"Vistani clans, full of folk of differing races, rove outside the politics and concerns of civilized places."
Play a Vistani if you want...
♦ to come from a culture that allows you to defy racial stereotypes despite your race.
♦ access to a wandering “nation” of potential allies with a culture full of mystery and adventure. .

..Sorry not for me, as I have said in other subject's. I like the Vistani as a mystical take on the Romani, Van Richten's Guide to the Vistani was very well written giving a racist Van Richten a chance for redemption and reconciliation with the Vistani. And yes for me 5th edition Luba's Tarokka of Souls was a big mistake for various reasons.

"A halfling Vistani, Mother Luba led one of the largest groups of Vistani in the Shadowfell. She hailed from the same world that Count Strahd von Zarovich and Madam Eva came from,"

First for me the 4th edition, Vistani that adopt like minded people of any race into their clan doesn't work. I like the Vistani as mystical humans and I like the concept of giomorgo (Half-Vistani) not being really accepted similar to Half-Elves, what can you do the world and especially the medieval world was never a nice place. Then even if Eva's tribe the Zarovan of the Manusa Tasque and Strahd's surname sound similar, the Vistani come from another world than Strahd does they came to the Land of Mists to escape an ancient enemy, the similarity to the name could be just Fate. If I am not mistaken the term Mortu does not exist in 4th edition, so no, sorry Chris Sims I know your intentions where good but I 'll stick to David Wise's version of the Vistani.

[onmyoji]

Zerena Lukas daughter of the mercenary bandit leader Red Lukas is a good addition but her being a werewolf is kind of a give away for future adventures in Kartakass (or maybe just missleading which is interesting) also Red Lukas was defeated in 350 BC before Strahd became a vampire which makes Zerena Lukas a very very old werewolf (OK I give up with the timeline thing this is some serious Tristenoira stuff going around here).

There's no way that Red Lukas and Zerena Lukas are related to Harkon, Akriel, and Casimir Lukas. Harkon is brought into the mists from the nation of Cormyr, in Faerûn. This means it's canonically impossible for him to be related to Red Lukas unless a DM locates Prime Material Barovia in Forgotten Realms. The surname has to be a happy coincidence.

— onmyoji

[Mephisto of the FoS]

Zerena Lukas daughter of the mercenary bandit leader Red Lukas is a good addition but her being a werewolf is kind of a give away for future adventures in Kartakass (or maybe just missleading which is interesting) also Red Lukas was defeated in 350 BC before Strahd became a vampire which makes Zerena Lukas a very very old werewolf (OK I give up with the timeline thing this is some serious Tristenoira stuff going around here).

There's no way that Red Lukas and Zerena Lukas are related to Harkon, Akriel, and Casimir Lukas. Harkon is brought into the mists from the nation of Cormyr, in Faerûn. This means it's canonically impossible for him to be related to Red Lukas unless a DM locates Prime Material Barovia in Forgotten Realms. The surname has to be a happy coincidence.

Yes this is the case, it is a coincidence probably created by Claudio Pozas mistaking Harkon Lukas with Red Lukas (probably not even knowing the difference between a werewolf and a narrulve). But even if this is not the case, having the PC's speculating that Harkon or Akriel are descendants of Zerena Lukas spoils the surprise. On the other hand the PC's may believe that Meinstersinger Lukas is a werewolf only to be surprised again when they realise "Oh...oh! this is not a werewolf...".

On Claudio Pozas defence the mistake could have been caused by confusion on his part on Harkons background
"While one night Harkon Lukas was walking alone on a village road in Cormyr dreaming of conquest, a fog rolled in transporting him to Barovia. Frenzied by the sudden turn of events, he turned berserk hunting down and slaying wolves in the Barovian forests. Strahd took notice of his depredating actions and confronted him with Harkon barely escaping with his life and entering the Mists once more", this happened in 613 BC.

Then from the novel I, Strahd we have Red Lukas (no known relation to Harkon Lukas) who was a bandit leader of considerable infamy in Prime Material Barovia. In 350 BC, Red Lukas and his gang was defeated by the Barovian military force led by Strahd. Among the officers were Falov, Commander Alek Gwilym, and Sergei von Zarovich, the latter of whom personally captured him. Red Lukas was later executed.

It is possible for someone who has completely messed up his timelines in the setting to mess up two different character's with the same surname I guess...

[onmyoji]

Yes this is the case but the PC's don't know it so if they learn of a Lukas werewolf they could expect a Lukas werewolf, which spoils the surprise only to be surprised again when they realise this isn't a werewolf.

Apologies — I thought you were inferring they were related. But as a DM, I'd be all for it—if not for any other reason than to turn the tables on the players when they find out that Harkon, Akriel, and/or Casimir aren't werewolves.

My players are currently in Kartakass and have a very powerful (for their level) silver rapier that's been helping them dispatch nearby werewolves. Right now, Akriel is on their side, and I don't intend for them to meet Casimir. But the Old Kartakan Inn is in all likelihood going to show them how useful the silver rapier won't be as the journey progresses. If all works according to plan, it'll probably be an even ruder awakening when they figure out who the initials ("HL") inscribed on the rapier's blade actually refer to.

— onmyoji

[Mephisto of the FoS]

If all works according to plan, it'll probably be an even ruder awakening when they figure out who the initials ("HL") inscribed on the rapier's blade actually refer to

Heath Ledger?

Why so serious...

[onmyoji]

Heath Ledger?

Why so serious...

Some DMs aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some DMs just want to watch their players burn.

(Not my sentiment—merely spinning off your excellent lead.)

— onmyoji