Got an idea from Planescape: Torment

[Hell_Born]

Now, this probably should have been put in the Roleplaying section, but anyway. Do you know of Planescape: Torment? Well, I've been considering the idea of utilising an Unmortal, like the main character, as an NPC in a Ravenloft campaign. Could I do it? And if the answer is yes, how would I handle Unmortality in the game?

[Jason of the Fraternity]

Do you know of Planescape: Torment?

Excellent game! One of the best computer RPGs that I've ever played. I'll admit that I'm a little biased (being a big Planescape fan), but Torment is definitely worth the time to play through.

Well, I've been considering the idea of utilising an Unmortal, like the main character, as an NPC in a Ravenloft campaign. Could I do it? And if the answer is yes, how would I handle Unmortality in the game?

I would definitely say that you could do something like this in your Ravenloft campaign. Mortals desiring eternal life... Making pacts with evil fiends (a Night Hag in Torment's case)... Trying to compensate for the wrongs one has done in the past... I would say that all of these aspects fit very well into the Gothic nature of Ravenloft.

You could make "The Nameless One" an NPC (or Darklord) in your campaign, who performed some terrible acts during his original life. As he began feeling the effects the Dark Powers had on him due to his misdeeds, he decided that he needed to make amends for the evils that he wrought. However, he was still a selfish man (who only wanted to "redeem" himself to avoid the punishment of eternal damnation). Therefore, he studied and researched until he found a way to remove his humanity from himself (Note: consider using the Hollow feat for Champions of Darkness).

Through some arcane ritual or dark pact, The Nameless One has been able to remove his mortality from his flesh. He is no longer subject to death like everyone else. Yes, he can still be killed, but his body will regenerate and rise again after time. Unfortunately, the Dark Powers cursed him to lose his memories each time he is reborn. Therefore, the Nameless One can never truly repent his past sins (since he can no longer truly remember all of the evil his has done in the past).

You could also go into more detail with the Transcendant One, if you wanted to add that element to the game. For example, does the Nameless One create shadows due to his deaths? (i.e., does his rebirths steal the life force from other humanoids?) Perhaps, the Transcendant One has become a Darklord and the Nameless One has become the antihero that the PCs need to help in order to defeat the domains lord.

Anyway, I've rattled my bonebox enough for the moment. I'll let some other people add their thoughts to this topic, but you could definitely do something with this idea, Hell Born. In fact, you could possibly make an entire domain with some of the concepts and character from the Torment game.

[Hell_Born]

Thank you for that answer; Jason of the Fraternity. I've been wondering if I should attempt to create an "Unmortal Template", for Ravenloft (or perhaps even Masque of the Red Death) Games Masters to use for a campaign-important NPC -or even, if the players are sufficiently mature, a PC. And perhaps even submit it to QTR#13? If I should do this, I need some advice, because this will actually require three templates:

*"Unmortal Loner"- the Unmortal's mortality has either ceased to exist or -more likely- its mortality hasn't gained sentience. Perhaps with an option about whether or not it creates Shadows from its rebirths, perhaps not. Either way, it still forgets its previous incarnations with its deaths.

*"Unmortal and Transcendant One"- an Unmortal as per the game of Planescape: Torment, the Unmortal's mortality has assumed a vengeful sentience of its own. This template definately spawns Shadows.

*"Unmortal of Remembrance"- this Unmortal no longer forgets itself with each death. Precisely why is unknown; the book -yes, I own the book and like it; please do not hate me for that- suggests that the key lies in a special elixir, distilled from the memory-absorbing waters of the Styx and applied to the Unmortal whilst it is in between incarnation.

[Jennifer]

Hi there Hell Born,
Yes I think that the game Planescape Torment can easily be used for a Ravenloft games, especially since the Nameless one is quite the flawed hero with his fears of punishment for his sins.

I defenitely think you can do much with this characters as an NPC for players to help along to his final rest/punishment.

Let us all nkow how it works out.

Jennifer

[alhoon]

Excellent game! One of the best computer RPGs that I've ever played.

The best computer RPG I have ever played. And I'm not a planescape fun.

About Ravenloft: The Character seems good enough for Ravenloft with me. He makes a bargain and gets a sideffect... He loses his memory.

Strahd made a similar pact. And many other monsters out there.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

About Ravenloft: The Character seems good enough for Ravenloft with me. He makes a bargain and gets a sideffect... He loses his memory.

Strahd made a similar pact. And many other monsters out there.

Not sure I would want a darklord IMC with that curse, as it's kind of hard to rub a villain's past crimes in his face if he doesn't even remember what they were. Darklords' punishments need to get personal, not just painful, IMO. But it'd be a dandy curse for a non-darklord bad guy, particularly one who offended against the Vistani in a major way.

[Jason of the Fraternity]

Thank you for that answer; Jason of the Fraternity.

No problem!

I've been wondering if I should attempt to create an "Unmortal Template", for Ravenloft (or perhaps even Masque of the Red Death) Games Masters to use for a campaign-important NPC.

I would be interested in seeing the how you would write out the concept of template(s) for such a character, HB. My only concern with this template is that becoming an "umortal" should be a very rare occurance. I think that the "Nameless One" should be an exception rather than the normal version of people becoming immortal. For example, most wizards wishing to extend their lives become liches. How and why would people choose to go this route?

As an aside, you might want to review Dark Tales & Disturbing Legends, since chapter one deals with similar concepts of gaining immortality at a price. The "Ambient" was a force that could grant immortality but the effect might not be what recipient desired (i.e., becoming eternal by being turned into stone). The "One" was an example of a person who gained immortality due to the Ambient's gift. This chapter doesn't completely fit Torment's approach, but you might gain some ideas for a Ravenloftian approach.

[Jason of the Fraternity]

Not sure I would want a darklord IMC with that curse, as it's kind of hard to rub a villain's past crimes in his face if he doesn't even remember what they were. Darklords' punishments need to get personal, not just painful, IMO.

Obviously, everyone has their own approaches for their own campaigns, but I think that such a character could be used as a darklord. The biggest point, which I agree with you, would be that losing his memory would possibly ease his suffering as a darklord. Never remembering his past before each death would greatly limit the ability to make punishments personal.

Then again, you could easily alter the past to make the memory loss more poignant (e.g., the immortal wanted eternal life to learn all of the secrets of the world but cannot remember them if he "dies") or perhaps the memories haunt him as hallucinations and nightmares (e.g., the immortal suffers from deja vue and paranoia due only catching glimpses of all his past lives).

Personally, I would make the "Transcendant One" a darklord, since he was the more 'evil' version in the game. Plus, his desire to remain free and immortal would drive him to greater acts of evil as his paranoia and despiration grew. Meanwhile, the "Nameless One" would run the full gamut of alignments and personalities as he continuously tries to piece together his shattered past(s).

The best computer RPG I have ever played. And I'm not a planescape fun.

I think one of the big benefits was that you didn't have to know a lot about Planescape (or even like the setting very much) to enjoy the game. It helped to know aspects of Planescape before playing, but Torment was a great introduction to the basics of the setting.

[Hell_Born]

I thank you for your reviews Jason, and that point you made about how/why a being would choose to become an Unmortal is the one that has been nagging me. I know that to seperate mortality would require massive magical power -the very minimum would be a pact with a 30HD Outsider like Ravel or a Wish spell- and that discovering the idea itself would probably take something like a DC40 Knowledge (Arcana) check, but why would someone choose Unmortality over lichhood?

Well, the only reason I can see is because Unmortality doesn't have some of the "penalties" of undeath; an Unmortal can still experience the world in the same way an ordinary living person could, though admittedly their reduced/lost capacity to experience emotions doesn't make it that different. However, Unmortality is perhaps a more "effective" way to cheat death than undeath itself is.

After all, an undead can be affected by clerics of sufficiently high power, and even a lich can be destroyed by shattering its phylactery. An Unmortal, however, still looks and essentially acts alive, and is virtually impossible to destroy. To get rid of an Unmortal requires something like hurling it into the Elemental Plane of Fire, or killing it outside of the presence of living creatures in the Negative Energy Plane.

Actually, that's been something I've been wondering about; if an Unmortal cheats death by stealing the Positive Energy from other living creatures, hence the reason those who "fuel" its rebirth become shadows, what would happen if it died on the Positive Energy Plane?

Getting back on topic, I have read DT&DL and find it certainly lives up to the hype. Unfortunately I must admit my ignorance in that I cannot see how to use The Ambient as inspiration for Unmortality.

[Jason of the Fraternity]

I know that to seperate mortality would require massive magical power -the very minimum would be a pact with a 30HD Outsider like Ravel or a Wish spell- and that discovering the idea itself would probably take something like a DC40 Knowledge (Arcana) check

Without nitpicking rules at the moment, I think that this works rather well. It makes the likelihood of creating "unmortals" very low, but it is not impossible for it to occur.

Well, the only reason I can see is because Unmortality doesn't have some of the "penalties" of undeath; an Unmortal can still experience the world in the same way an ordinary living person could, though admittedly their reduced/lost capacity to experience emotions doesn't make it that different. However, Unmortality is perhaps a more "effective" way to cheat death than undeath itself is.

Very true!

[Jason of the Fraternity]

Getting back on topic, I have read DT&DL and find it certainly lives up to the hype. Unfortunately I must admit my ignorance in that I cannot see how to use The Ambient as inspiration for Unmortality.

Wihtout going into deeper thought and speculation, my biggest recommendation would be to use the Ambient as a substitute for the powerful outsider or wish spell (it would decrease the difficulty of figuring out the process and finding an entity powerful enough to perform it). Honestly, I doubt that I would personally use this concept if I were converting Torment to the Ravenloft setting. However, it would make an interesting tie-in if you wish to incorporate canon material. Again, I was pointing it out more for reference purposes than anything else.

Actually, that's been something I've been wondering about; if an Unmortal cheats death by stealing the Positive Energy from other living creatures, hence the reason those who "fuel" its rebirth become shadows, what would happen if it died on the Positive Energy Plane?

My opinion would be that the Positive Energy plane would refill the "unmortal" with life energy, which would normally be stolen from another living creature. For example, the Nameless One would die and be reborn without stealing life from another living creature (such as his companions). To prevent this from being a permanent fix to his curse, I would impose chance of him overloading from positive energy from each rebirth (disintigrates from absorbing too much life enegry), which could happen often if unprotected from the Plane's effects.

[alhoon]

About Ravenloft: The Character seems good enough for Ravenloft with me. He makes a bargain and gets a sideffect... He loses his memory.

Strahd made a similar pact. And many other monsters out there.

Not sure I would want a darklord IMC with that curse, as it's kind of hard to rub a villain's past crimes in his face if he doesn't even remember what they were. Darklords' punishments need to get personal, not just painful, IMO. But it'd be a dandy curse for a non-darklord bad guy, particularly one who offended against the Vistani in a major way.

I never said "Darklord" Rotipher. I was talking about a cool neutral NPC with a dark secret even he has forgot.

[Hell_Born]

So, you do think I can/should create an "Unmortal Template"? If so, could I please have some assistance? I have absolutely no talent at creative writing and poor talents at conversion. Here's an initial attempt at a basic Unmortal template, just to detail how pathetic I truly am.

Just so you know, I haven't actually played the game, all I know of it is what I've studied and my ownership of a copy of both the "official" book and the fan-made book. As a result, I've tried to blend the two sources together for this proto-template. Justifications for abilities I have allowed the template to bestow are in *asterixes*.

Unmortal
"Unmortal" is a template that may be applied to any corporeal sentient humanoid, monstrous humanoid, dragon or aberration. They retain all of their former abilities in addition to the new ones gained from this template.

Gaining this template is not easy; first, the prospective Unmortal must discover the very existence of such a concept, which calls for a Knowledge test with a minimum Difficulty Check of 40 to 50. Suitable classes of Knowledge are Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Theology) and Knowledge (The Planes-Sigil).

Secondly, to actually apply the template to the Unmortal requires tremendous magical power. Short of intervention from an actual diety, only two ways to do this are known. The First method is through the careful casting of a Wish spell. The Second method requires the prospective Unmortal to make a Fiendish Pact with an Evil Outsider of at least 30 Hit Dice/Levels.

Once successful, the Unmortal gains the following abilities.

Regeneration 1
*I've heard that TNO actually regains HP constantly in the game, and in the book the first "rebirth" experienced by TNO involves bleeding to death after his arm gets hacked off. When he comes back to life, it's regrowing back to its normal size.*

Immunity to any and all emotion-affecting effects. This includes the Emotion spell and Fear and Horror Checks.
*This ability is more based around the book, where TNO's unmortality comes with the cost of stunted emotions, to the extent that he shrugs off things like the howl of a Vargoille and feels no sorrow for the death of Annah, who in the book falls in love with him.*

+4 Circumstance Bonus to all Mind-Affecting Effects.
*An Unmortal's mind is so alien to those of an outsider that it provides defense against manipulations.*

Rebirth- when an Unmortal is slain -which can only be achieved by reducing it to -10HP- it enters a state of regeneration, during which it regenerates HP as though it were still alive, including regaining any lost appendages. Once the Unmortal's HP reaches its maximum, it returns to life, thoug subject to the Lost Incarnations ability below.

Lost Incarnations- when an Unmortal resurrects itself, it loses all memories of its previous incarnation. It loses all knowledge held by the previous incarnation of peoples, places ect, its Skill ranks effectively drop to Zero and it essentially becomes a Zero-Level Commoner. However, it still retains its original Health Points, known Spells, Attack Bonus and other such things. However, it cannot access these until and unless it gains sufficient levels in the appropriate class.

Memory Keys- an item that the DM decides holds/held particularl importance/significance to an Unmortal may become a "memory key" for that incarnation. Should that incarnation perish, and a new incarnation of that Unmortal comes into the immediate location of a memory key, the DM must alert the Unmortal that he/she feels a strange, subconcious attraction to the item, a subtle urge to gain possession of it. Once the memory key is in the Unmortal's possession, the Unmortal can attempt to "tap" it, which requires a full-round action during which the Unmortal concentrates its mind upon the key. Success unlocks the key and produces a rush of memories into the mind of the Unmortal- the Unmortal gains 1 (or more if the DM considers it appropriate) levels in a class known by the incarnation who created the memory key.

Soulless- an Unmortal gains all the benefits of the Hollow feat (Champions of Darkness) but does not need to be of Evil alignment.

Grave-Kin- because an Unmortal does not radiate life-energy, the undead instinctively see the Unmortal as being one of them. Unintelligent undead will not attack an Unmortal at all unless it attacks them first, whilst intelligent undead (unless they would have a valid reason not to- for example, the Unmortal just broke into their lair to try and kill them/rob from them) automatically have their Reaction shifted by 1 step towards Positive.

Spawn Shadows- whenever an Unmortal returns to life due to its Rebirth ability, the positive energy is immediately siphoned away from some unsuspecting being somewhere in the multiverse. The soul of that unaware victim becomes a Shadow, and possesses an instinctive knowledge of both why it is now an undead and hatred of the Unmortal which created it. These Shadows are unaffected by the Grave-Kin ability.

Class Notes: generally, Unmortals do not come from -or ever take levels in- Paladin, Druid or Cleric. To become an Unmortal generally requires a supreme act of hubris and an immense amount of pride, coupled with the fact that most dieties would consider an Unmortal a dangerous, blasphemous heretic. Finally, to become an Unmortal is to shatter the natural cycle of things in a manner even more extreme than to become an undead.

[Jack of Tears]

As an aside, I have an "unmortal" npc in my setting. He was a hunter who prided himself in being the match for anything - beast, monster, man, it mattered not. In all the world there seemed no greater hunter or killer. One day the man went so far as to claim even death itself was no match more him. Enraged by his hubris, death came for the man and made him a bargian ... it would produce a battlefield and in it they would hunt one another. If the man won he would never again need fear death, though if he lost death could put him to eternal service, so his soul might never rest.

Naturally, as is the case with these sorts of tales, the man - after a long and legendary hunt - defeated death. (though it may have been death's intent to lose all along - who can say?) True to its word, death turned its face from the man and has never looked back.

The problem is, the gift didn't come with any other benefits. The man continued to age, he continued to sustain injury, suffer disease ... the only difference was, he could never die from his afflictions. Thus, for ages he has lived, forced to fend off the decay of flesh and body through means both mundane and terrible. To keep age at bay he has taken to inbibing youth drugs, killing elves to concoct potions, bargaining wishes out of wizard's - whatever it takes. The magics have weakened his constitution, however, and even normal wounds refuse to heal as they should. Any damage heals at one tenth it's usual rate and leaves wicked scars behind when it does. To overcome this, the man has learned medical arts and will often stitch wounds together. (or outright sow - when they are too viscious) The man can only be incapacitated by crippling him. Even then, once he has set the bones, or whatever might be necessary, he can continue with whatever current needs drive him.

Always in pain, the man wishes for death but since he can't have it, tends to take his frustration out on others. Something of a masochist, he enjoys watching others suffer as he suffers - usually dismembering them a little at a time. Though he occasionally goes through periods wherein he attempts to make penance for his wrongs, ultimately his self pity turns him back to cruelty and brutality. No matter his current outlook, the man is obsessed with death and will take the oportunity to look for it in the eyes of his victims or foes. After dispatching an enemy, he will spend one melee round watching the life fade from his/her eyes (longer if not pressed by combat) during which time he is considered "dazed".

Useful as either ally or villain, the man is willing to work with others so long as their immediate goals are similar - and will always work to find new means to reduce his own suffering.

Not quite the same as The Nameless One, but an amusing "unmortal" npc to play nonetheless.

[Hell_Born]

Does anyone have anything to say about my proto-template? Or any advice on creating an Unmortal Template that works?