The Shattered City: OOC
Or a fox.DocBeard wrote:Coyote.
If only Kerrian could pick plants, he could be a ficus.
"No, but evil is still being — Is having reason — Being reasonable! Mousie understands? Is always being reason. Is punishing world for not being... Like in head. Is always reason. World should be different, is reason."
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NeoTiamat
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The poor, forgotten Ficus...
Ravenloft GM: Eye of Anubis, Shattered City, and Prof. Lupescu's Traveling Ghost Show
Lead Writer & Editor: VRS Files: Doppelgangers; Contributor: QtR #20, #21, #22, #23, #24
Freelance Writer for Paizo Publishing
Lead Writer & Editor: VRS Files: Doppelgangers; Contributor: QtR #20, #21, #22, #23, #24
Freelance Writer for Paizo Publishing
No August birthdays yet, which is funny, since it seems like half the people I know were born in August.
"No, but evil is still being — Is having reason — Being reasonable! Mousie understands? Is always being reason. Is punishing world for not being... Like in head. Is always reason. World should be different, is reason."
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NeoTiamat
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- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:00 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Logged 6 RT to Nathan, Cronax, and Whistler for feedback. If anyone else wants some of it, the offer is still open.
Ravenloft GM: Eye of Anubis, Shattered City, and Prof. Lupescu's Traveling Ghost Show
Lead Writer & Editor: VRS Files: Doppelgangers; Contributor: QtR #20, #21, #22, #23, #24
Freelance Writer for Paizo Publishing
Lead Writer & Editor: VRS Files: Doppelgangers; Contributor: QtR #20, #21, #22, #23, #24
Freelance Writer for Paizo Publishing
D'oh.
Lets get the negative out of the way. The beginning of EoA was brilliant; it introduced a major antagonist, brought the party together emotionally, introduced peril, and pushed the heroes forward in one post. Even without those massive shoes to fill, this opener is much less focused, slower paced, confused in narrative, and frustrating. Maybe I need to reread the skill challenge rules, but weren't they supposed to be a team sport, with the killer TNs being balanced by the whole group getting a shot? It felt disorganized, which is partially our fault as a new group, but a problem all the same. This was gradually reduced throughout the chapter, as everyone got a bit more confident, but I'll attend to that presently.
OKAY. I think Nathan has the right of it, for the most part. I know I was a little hard on this chapter but ultimately it has to be put in perspective: Its a new group of players and characters who all need time to be introduced, plus an NPC cast, plus a subtle, convulted conflict, plus a more obvious conflict, plus we were all dealing with exams, vacation, more exams, projects, grad school, and other perils of the fall. While I think some of the specifics of the chapter could have been replaced or polished to some extent, the fact of the matter is that this was a different kind of opening for a different kind of game, and much of the initial frustration was from our, or at least my, expecting a square peg and getting a round one instead.
As for specifics, here are a few:
The initial theft was a bit weak. We're not Dementileuese and when the sword of Leon is stolen there's a bit of a gasp but we don't get the sheer intimacy of the criminal action. This could have been tied to the group better through several ways, the most obvious being someone, or the whole group, being suspected of the crime and having to clear our names. This could also lead to a Phoenix Wright style court battle, which I heartily support.
I was going to add a bit about using combat to break up the tension and frustration of multiple tricky investigation and skill check scenes, but you guys did give us opportunity to fight. Were Tomas more of a savage(Though I am glad I did a decent job showing how he has hardened over the years.) a lot of beggars and rioting thugs would be dead. I cannot in good conscience complain about something I turned down because of character reasons, though my point remains a valid one: a quick knuckleduster would've been a refreshing tension break.
You guys are doing a great job of developing mood, and once the riot actually started, I feel like there was a sort of turning point, and everything started running smoother. Don't take how rough November was to heart, a lot of that was just RL being RL. The NPC cast is fun and refreshingly quirky, and I love seeing how our old friends have developed. I think the Reniers are my personal favorites, though Lemercer and Petrik have this great Ridicully/Weatherwax relationship going on. (As in 'they relate to each other' not 'they are kissing'.) My only worry is that a lot of this centers around the school, and we all have yet to sign up for classes!
All and all, I'm super looking forward to Chapter 2, which is the goal of any introduction, so well done on that end.
Lets get the negative out of the way. The beginning of EoA was brilliant; it introduced a major antagonist, brought the party together emotionally, introduced peril, and pushed the heroes forward in one post. Even without those massive shoes to fill, this opener is much less focused, slower paced, confused in narrative, and frustrating. Maybe I need to reread the skill challenge rules, but weren't they supposed to be a team sport, with the killer TNs being balanced by the whole group getting a shot? It felt disorganized, which is partially our fault as a new group, but a problem all the same. This was gradually reduced throughout the chapter, as everyone got a bit more confident, but I'll attend to that presently.
OKAY. I think Nathan has the right of it, for the most part. I know I was a little hard on this chapter but ultimately it has to be put in perspective: Its a new group of players and characters who all need time to be introduced, plus an NPC cast, plus a subtle, convulted conflict, plus a more obvious conflict, plus we were all dealing with exams, vacation, more exams, projects, grad school, and other perils of the fall. While I think some of the specifics of the chapter could have been replaced or polished to some extent, the fact of the matter is that this was a different kind of opening for a different kind of game, and much of the initial frustration was from our, or at least my, expecting a square peg and getting a round one instead.
As for specifics, here are a few:
The initial theft was a bit weak. We're not Dementileuese and when the sword of Leon is stolen there's a bit of a gasp but we don't get the sheer intimacy of the criminal action. This could have been tied to the group better through several ways, the most obvious being someone, or the whole group, being suspected of the crime and having to clear our names. This could also lead to a Phoenix Wright style court battle, which I heartily support.
I was going to add a bit about using combat to break up the tension and frustration of multiple tricky investigation and skill check scenes, but you guys did give us opportunity to fight. Were Tomas more of a savage(Though I am glad I did a decent job showing how he has hardened over the years.) a lot of beggars and rioting thugs would be dead. I cannot in good conscience complain about something I turned down because of character reasons, though my point remains a valid one: a quick knuckleduster would've been a refreshing tension break.
You guys are doing a great job of developing mood, and once the riot actually started, I feel like there was a sort of turning point, and everything started running smoother. Don't take how rough November was to heart, a lot of that was just RL being RL. The NPC cast is fun and refreshingly quirky, and I love seeing how our old friends have developed. I think the Reniers are my personal favorites, though Lemercer and Petrik have this great Ridicully/Weatherwax relationship going on. (As in 'they relate to each other' not 'they are kissing'.) My only worry is that a lot of this centers around the school, and we all have yet to sign up for classes!
All and all, I'm super looking forward to Chapter 2, which is the goal of any introduction, so well done on that end.
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NeoTiamat
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 4119
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:00 pm
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- Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Well, one of the explicit goals of SC is to not just rehash EoA, which was admittedly very much a temptation at times. I am glad to see we have succeeded so well.DocBeard wrote:D'oh.
Lets get the negative out of the way. The beginning of EoA was brilliant; it introduced a major antagonist, brought the party together emotionally, introduced peril, and pushed the heroes forward in one post. Even without those massive shoes to fill, this opener is much less focused, slower paced, confused in narrative, and frustrating. Maybe I need to reread the skill challenge rules, but weren't they supposed to be a team sport, with the killer TNs being balanced by the whole group getting a shot? It felt disorganized, which is partially our fault as a new group, but a problem all the same. This was gradually reduced throughout the chapter, as everyone got a bit more confident, but I'll attend to that presently.
As for Skill Challenges... I think you will just have to bear with us a bit there, we're still in the process of learning the system. Though I thought the Catacombs Skill Challenge went pretty well.
Fall has traditionally been a bad time for gaming. I recall in EoA the pace decidedly slackened in the fall/late summer (that was Books Seven and Eight, I believe), only to pick up again in January/February.DocBeard wrote:OKAY. I think Nathan has the right of it, for the most part. I know I was a little hard on this chapter but ultimately it has to be put in perspective: Its a new group of players and characters who all need time to be introduced, plus an NPC cast, plus a subtle, convulted conflict, plus a more obvious conflict, plus we were all dealing with exams, vacation, more exams, projects, grad school, and other perils of the fall. While I think some of the specifics of the chapter could have been replaced or polished to some extent, the fact of the matter is that this was a different kind of opening for a different kind of game, and much of the initial frustration was from our, or at least my, expecting a square peg and getting a round one instead.
Lesson for the future: When in doubt, accuse the PCs of a crime.The initial theft was a bit weak. We're not Dementileuese and when the sword of Leon is stolen there's a bit of a gasp but we don't get the sheer intimacy of the criminal action. This could have been tied to the group better through several ways, the most obvious being someone, or the whole group, being suspected of the crime and having to clear our names. This could also lead to a Phoenix Wright style court battle, which I heartily support.
More seriously, getting the players involved in the theft was a cause for a great deal of discussion amongst the DMs in the planning stage... then you guys offered your assistance before we even got a chance to put any of our plans into play (I believe it was Agale who made the initial offer of help).
That's actually why Andre and Marchand-Renier were as prominent as they were in this Book (which would not necessarily hold true for later ones). It was to use them as pre-built hooks.
A fair point, and one in hindsight I have to agree with. The main problems with a fight, though, would've been two-fold. First, combats would've taken even longer, and we were desperately trying to finish before Christmas. And two, the only real opponents available (without a considerable rewrite), would've been various rioters and angry mobs, and we didn't think having to beat up (relatively) innocent people would've been very satisfying for the PCs.I was going to add a bit about using combat to break up the tension and frustration of multiple tricky investigation and skill check scenes, but you guys did give us opportunity to fight. Were Tomas more of a savage(Though I am glad I did a decent job showing how he has hardened over the years.) a lot of beggars and rioting thugs would be dead. I cannot in good conscience complain about something I turned down because of character reasons, though my point remains a valid one: a quick knuckleduster would've been a refreshing tension break.
As mentioned, the Professors are fun. "I'm old, I can be as quirky as I want, dammit!"You guys are doing a great job of developing mood, and once the riot actually started, I feel like there was a sort of turning point, and everything started running smoother. Don't take how rough November was to heart, a lot of that was just RL being RL. The NPC cast is fun and refreshingly quirky, and I love seeing how our old friends have developed. I think the Reniers are my personal favorites, though Lemercer and Petrik have this great Ridicully/Weatherwax relationship going on. (As in 'they relate to each other' not 'they are kissing'.) My only worry is that a lot of this centers around the school, and we all have yet to sign up for classes!
A very significant part of the Book was to actually introduce all the NPCs, and not just the House NPCs. Some of the other people you've met are just red herrings, others are significant, and in terms of introductions, I am happy with how it turned out.
Never fear, we will have all that you have been missing in Book One in Book Two. *evil grin*All and all, I'm super looking forward to Chapter 2, which is the goal of any introduction, so well done on that end.
Ravenloft GM: Eye of Anubis, Shattered City, and Prof. Lupescu's Traveling Ghost Show
Lead Writer & Editor: VRS Files: Doppelgangers; Contributor: QtR #20, #21, #22, #23, #24
Freelance Writer for Paizo Publishing
Lead Writer & Editor: VRS Files: Doppelgangers; Contributor: QtR #20, #21, #22, #23, #24
Freelance Writer for Paizo Publishing
We had a list of stuff and everything. *sniff* But when half the PCs have volunteered before you even get home from class, sometimes you just roll with it.NeoTiamat wrote:More seriously, getting the players involved in the theft was a cause for a great deal of discussion amongst the DMs in the planning stage... then you guys offered your assistance before we even got a chance to put any of our plans into play (I believe it was Agale who made the initial offer of help).
"No, but evil is still being — Is having reason — Being reasonable! Mousie understands? Is always being reason. Is punishing world for not being... Like in head. Is always reason. World should be different, is reason."
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NeoTiamat
- Evil Genius
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- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:00 pm
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Hey, I don't mind.
But if you accept the bare hooks before we even get a chance to put any worms on them, don't grouse about weak plot hooks!
But if you accept the bare hooks before we even get a chance to put any worms on them, don't grouse about weak plot hooks!
Ravenloft GM: Eye of Anubis, Shattered City, and Prof. Lupescu's Traveling Ghost Show
Lead Writer & Editor: VRS Files: Doppelgangers; Contributor: QtR #20, #21, #22, #23, #24
Freelance Writer for Paizo Publishing
Lead Writer & Editor: VRS Files: Doppelgangers; Contributor: QtR #20, #21, #22, #23, #24
Freelance Writer for Paizo Publishing
*wanders bleary eyed out of the cartographers shop*
This isnt real feedback but as a spectator its actualy been rather good, Im getting a feel for a lot of the NPC's from day one whiuch was somethign EoA didnt do for a few books (I think I assumed Guy and Michel were the same person until about book 4).
Id say Tension is being rampled up nicely, and although yes Doc is right there was a bit of a disconnect between the pc's and the crime that forms the plot, it seems ot be headed in the right direction. I remember feeling really confused and if Im honest a little let down by book one of EoA as it had TOOO many unanswered questions, BUT looking back Im glad it was that way, as it meant what came after was truely excellent. Basically Ive got the patience to see where this goes, Im sure it will rock anyway...
Right I'd better get back to work if I want to make the start of Book 2, that bloody map isnt drawing itself....
Oh and Nicolas is 15th August 738 (just for you Isy) and he'll be oh I dont know, maybe a Lion? if thats gone somethign else dramatic and OTT...
This isnt real feedback but as a spectator its actualy been rather good, Im getting a feel for a lot of the NPC's from day one whiuch was somethign EoA didnt do for a few books (I think I assumed Guy and Michel were the same person until about book 4).
Id say Tension is being rampled up nicely, and although yes Doc is right there was a bit of a disconnect between the pc's and the crime that forms the plot, it seems ot be headed in the right direction. I remember feeling really confused and if Im honest a little let down by book one of EoA as it had TOOO many unanswered questions, BUT looking back Im glad it was that way, as it meant what came after was truely excellent. Basically Ive got the patience to see where this goes, Im sure it will rock anyway...
Right I'd better get back to work if I want to make the start of Book 2, that bloody map isnt drawing itself....
Oh and Nicolas is 15th August 738 (just for you Isy) and he'll be oh I dont know, maybe a Lion? if thats gone somethign else dramatic and OTT...
"I had a dream, which was not all a dream.
The bright sun was extinguish'd, and the stars
Did wander darkling in the eternal space..."
The bright sun was extinguish'd, and the stars
Did wander darkling in the eternal space..."
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yalenusveler
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Finally getting in critique of book one.
1, the book itself
It was an introduction. And happening when it did, with finals and holidays and all that associated cruft that comes along with that thing called real life, there were some pacing issues. Still, I rather liked it. I do think it could have used a party combat at some point, even if it was just a few rounds, to help get everyone used to things and working as a group, but the game is still young and we've more than enough time to settle problems through good old fashioned violence.
Assuming that SC doesn't have us globetrotting, I'm kind of expecting more spillover from book to book. Although there'll be resolutions within each book, I'm expecting things to be more serial, instead of episodic like EoA felt at times. I'm overall, pretty optimistic on how things will go.
2, NPCS
I really like all the house NPCs so far, though the cameos and callbacks are certianly neat. At times with EoA, some of the NPCs felt like, well, they were just there to be the guard, and I sort of put them out of sight and out of mind, and didn't really bother to realize that there was a great deal of depth to them till it was too late to do anything about it. With SC, the NPCs are engaging me right from the start, so definite kudos on that.
We shall see how things go.
Though I still am curious, who would try and assassinate Andre??
1, the book itself
It was an introduction. And happening when it did, with finals and holidays and all that associated cruft that comes along with that thing called real life, there were some pacing issues. Still, I rather liked it. I do think it could have used a party combat at some point, even if it was just a few rounds, to help get everyone used to things and working as a group, but the game is still young and we've more than enough time to settle problems through good old fashioned violence.
Assuming that SC doesn't have us globetrotting, I'm kind of expecting more spillover from book to book. Although there'll be resolutions within each book, I'm expecting things to be more serial, instead of episodic like EoA felt at times. I'm overall, pretty optimistic on how things will go.
2, NPCS
I really like all the house NPCs so far, though the cameos and callbacks are certianly neat. At times with EoA, some of the NPCs felt like, well, they were just there to be the guard, and I sort of put them out of sight and out of mind, and didn't really bother to realize that there was a great deal of depth to them till it was too late to do anything about it. With SC, the NPCs are engaging me right from the start, so definite kudos on that.
We shall see how things go.
Though I still am curious, who would try and assassinate Andre??
"Sometimes, Mr.Liquor cabinet is my only friend"