The 4th edition FoS manifesto

[BigBadQDaddy]

I think we are now setted as to the fate of the RL setting in 4e, no?

Abandoned or not, we do a great job of keeping the setting alive.

[The Giamarga]

Did you guys see what they did to FR? (alsohere) I say let WotC abandon RL, thank you very much. This way at least they can't blow it up.

[Joël of the FoS]

Did you guys see what they did to FR? I say let WotC abandon RL, thank you very much. This way at least they can't blow it up.

What? You don't like the idea of Strahd now having tentacles and living under the Sea of Sorrows?

[Jester of the FoS]

FR is a much more epic and big budget setting and they're advancing the timeline. There should be some *boom* when that happens.
Really all they're doing is knocking down a few empires and adding a few new ones. Nothing nearly as bad as the Grand Conjunction and for the same reasons. Take away the boring kingdoms and add some spicy new ones.

But, for the record, the sample chapter everyone is discussing is one set 100 years in the future while, what they're doing to the Realms, only bumps ahead the timeline by 10 years so much of what's being discussed is stuff that might happen but hasn't yet.

[eldervampire]

Hello all,

It has been some time since my last visit to those in the mists.
I have missed these pages and now that my life has returned to me, I am looking to find a new group to wander with.

Here are my thoughts about 4th. PPPPTTTTHHHHFFFFFTTTT!!!!!!!!!!

This seems nothing more than a new way to generate a revenue stream to me and begs for the gaming community at large to give WoTc the one finger salute. I mean really, is there a need for a new system? Not really.
Have they run out of Ideas for "complete" books. (Barring if they publish a complete marketing book) pretty close. I know of many who stuck by 2nd and later found that while 3/3.5 took some getting used to it was a worthy upgrade. I fear for the structure of the game, the 30 level thing is a little scary. 10 levels of racial and 20 of class. HMMMMM.......

OK, I feel better now. I am truly sorry if I offended anyone here. That is not my intent. And I apologize in advance if I have.

[HuManBing]

Here are my thoughts about 4th. PPPPTTTTHHHHFFFFFTTTT!!!!!!!!!!

It's not entirely clear which orifice that sound you just made came from.

I suppose that only adds to its charm.

And I agree with your viewpoint.

[cure]

Did you guys see what they did to FR? I say let WotC abandon RL, thank you very much. This way at least they can't blow it up.

What? You don't like the idea of Strahd now having tentacles and living under the Sea of Sorrows?

How very Lovecraftean, a vampiric half-kraken Strahd. Now how many levels of Dark Powers would he have?

[Ail]

Hello all,

It has been some time since my last visit to those in the mists.
I have missed these pages and now that my life has returned to me, I am looking to find a new group to wander with.

Here are my thoughts about 4th. PPPPTTTTHHHHFFFFFTTTT!!!!!!!!!!

This seems nothing more than a new way to generate a revenue stream to me and begs for the gaming community at large to give WoTc the one finger salute. I mean really, is there a need for a new system? Not really.
Have they run out of Ideas for "complete" books. (Barring if they publish a complete marketing book) pretty close. I know of many who stuck by 2nd and later found that while 3/3.5 took some getting used to it was a worthy upgrade. I fear for the structure of the game, the 30 level thing is a little scary. 10 levels of racial and 20 of class. HMMMMM.......

OK, I feel better now. I am truly sorry if I offended anyone here. That is not my intent. And I apologize in advance if I have.

I'm really beginning to think much of this criticism is undue. I don't really think 30 levels is that scary. As a matter of fact, the 20 level structure is not even the oldest one. In D&D times, there was a box for 1-3 levels, another for levels 4-14, another for 15-24 (iirc) and two others that led players into the 50s. Now, really, it seems that most of the newest users around are deeply conservative, when it really should be the other way around. They want to keep everything as it is, unchanged, fixed in stone. And there are even some simply that take as canon whatever the FoS and the fans produce, as some people did with the Kargatane before FoS. Now, really, do you truly believe that the WotC writers are not fans of the settings? Heck, they've been playing D&D in all its variants for decades, not years, and like it or not, they have a broader and more dynamic view of it than we do. And the game does need to change in order to outlive us. If an edition is exhausted, and it does happen, and can be eventually traced by a decrease in sales, then something has to change.

That said, what a company as WotC wants is to earn new gamers, especially those that have not been exposed to previous editions. They would surely like to keep old ones as well, but those tend to reach a point when they think they have enough and stop buying. Haven't you ever wished that RL wouldn't be published anymore so that you already knew everything there was to know about the setting? I have. Perhaps more people think like me. I still think WotC is perfectly justified in this move.

Alex

[Jester of the FoS]

Yeah, the constant stream of vitriol got to me quickly.

WotC sucks because they haven't released any Ravenloft products.
WotC sucks because EtCR wasn't related to the campaign setting or was slightly different than the original.

WotC sucks because they're releasing too many books. How many Complete ____ do we need?
WotC sucks because they stopped releasing expansion books and are now releasing 4E.

Each and every thing they do seems to be wrong...

[HuManBing]

I hate to be negative but again I agree with more or less everything you say. Wizards hasn't done much to endear itself to me and they allowed the one thing that they did well for Ravenloft - the White Wolf license - to end.

One solution is to let Wizards buy or take over Fraternity. After that you'd probably see a considerable downturn in the number of anti-WotC opinions here.

[eldervampire]

Well,

Let me say that WoTc has done nothing to impress me. Some of the folks they had working for them have. Monte Cook comes to mind here.

As far as the level thing i mentioned.....
I played D&D back in the days of Gygax. I had a PC who who was the original kick-arse Bard, Fighter/Thief/Druid, who was killed by a Vampire.
My companions killed him and waited around for me to rise and helped me to contain myself. The Paladin actually became my blood host, so I wouldn't feed off of the innocent. His name was Falconis Moonbow, and when he was retired he was a lvl 37.

I don't say this for anyother reason other than to explain that I, and I am very sure others here, have been playing for decades.
I also have worked on the retail end of the RPG world and know that the developers in R&D may love the game, but they don't make the decisions to scrap or invent editions. Thats what the suits are for. (bless their dark little hearts) The profit margin is the bottom line for them. Ravenloft, dark sun, spelljammer, planescape, these were all beloved settings which were cancelled due to sagging sales. Its a buisness, they need new product to generate higher sales. A new PHB, DMG,MM, new rules for building a stronghold or how the Fighter gets to smash the Goblins.

I don't hate WoTc. or think they suck. I hate the sucky decisions they made, and I love some of the things they gave to us . It's just buisness I don't take it personal and I hope noone else does.

Disclaimer: No actual Goblins were smashed during the writing of this post. We now return you to your regular program.

[Jester of the FoS]

I hate to be negative but again I agree with more or less everything you say. Wizards hasn't done much to endear itself to me and they allowed the one thing that they did well for Ravenloft - the White Wolf license - to end.

One solution is to let Wizards buy or take over Fraternity. After that you'd probably see a considerable downturn in the number of anti-WotC opinions here.

I don't know how much WotC had to do with that. They might have asked for too much or WW itself could have decided not to. We've never found out for sure.
But WotC also gave out the license in the first place. That has to count for something.

[Lucius]

Talking about the 4th ed. I will buy the core rulebooks, but I must confess that I don´t plan to use the new edition in my Ravenloft campaign, nor I will start any 4th ed. campaign in a short time, maybe some 2 years from the release.

Since my 14 years RL campaign will end sometime in 2009, there´s no reason to convert it to the new edition (unless my palyers beg me to do this, something I doubt will occur).

If I would like to see the a 4th ed. of Ravenloft...well, I´m not sure, FR is changing, and I think something like this would happen to RL. I don´t see changes as a bad thing, but probably WOTC would ignore much of the plots and details of previous editions of RL, and I honestly don´t need a new, remade RL ignoring all the previous work on the continuity. I´m fine with the 3 ed, and with the Gaz and the existing plots (Azalin´s plan, TOUD, etc), so I can work my own ideas without needing an update setting.

As for hating 4th ed... I don´t hate it, since it´s a necessary change. From years ago, I was very tired of the WOTC books, and in current years it was clear that their source of ideas for new and usable D&D books was ending (anyway, my vision of good books can differ from other people, I always liked RL style books, with many ideas and histories and few rules, and D&D books were tons of prestidge clases, feats, etc...but too little history).

So, I see the 4th ed. as a natural evolution, even if I will not play it so soon.

[LordGodefroi]

Talking about the 4th ed. I will buy the core rulebooks, but I must confess that I don´t plan to use the new edition in my Ravenloft campaign

I was thinking that I'll probably buy only the 4e PHB, so that I may play in new games but will still DM games in 3.5e. I don't really want to buy into a new edition but I'd still like to stay in-step with the hobby's development. So buying the 4e PHB is a good compromise.

[Le Noir Faineant]

So, 4e is definitely coming?! My o my, I am away for six weeks and WotC promptly breaks the internet...

Besides, hello all, I am back!